Australian Politics Forum - The human cost in Gaza

tickleandrose

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4013
Gender: female

Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #990 - Nov 12^th, 2023 at 8:53am

Sophia wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 8:47am:

What am I seeing in the flattened background of Gaza when a reporter was talking on camera… the beach… a nice sea scenery…. ready for takeover/new occupation with newly built beach front mansions.
Am I looking in a crystal ball? Is this why the ordinary citizens are constantly warned to leave, being bombed, blowing up their residences and towns and shops and… oh the hospitals … are the hospitals even safe?
They are asking whilst holding their injured/bleeding children, what have they done, why are they being punished like this? They just wanted to live in peace. But that’s really asking for too much.

There was even a bs story saying Hamas beheading babies, it’s not true… and leaders of Hamas came forth to say so.

I can’t understand why I’m feeling sorry for the people of Gaza and hubby says they started it by poking the bear. He says to me… how would you feel if our daughter was at a concert and then kidnapped?

I’m torn… and now….in my own birthplace Melbourne Au we are having troubles between Palestinians and Jews.
That burger place was bombed and the owners think it was racially motivated. The cops are saying it’s not. Don’t assume. But I ask… how would the cops know… were they there to witness it?
After all… it’s a bit of a coincidence happening at this point in time of unrest in Melbourne.

I wish both sides would show the world togetherness rather than division. That’s what I would have hoped our country stood for.
Tell me I’m dreaming’ Embarrassed

Hi Sophia. During any conflict, truth is always the casualty. You cannot really trust what either side is saying. And like you, I feel a sense of enormous helplessness at the scenes of utter destruction and tragedy. People on both sides suffers. Tensions are high.

What can we do? Just be good to your loved ones, to your friends and do an act of kindness to a stranger whoever they may be. There is way too much hatred in this world, and we need to balance that out with something kind and loving.

Back to top

IP Logged

Sophia

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 8513

Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #991 - Nov 12^th, 2023 at 9:23am

tickleandrose wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 8:53am:

Sophia wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 8:47am:

What am I seeing in the flattened background of Gaza when a reporter was talking on camera… the beach… a nice sea scenery…. ready for takeover/new occupation with newly built beach front mansions.
Am I looking in a crystal ball? Is this why the ordinary citizens are constantly warned to leave, being bombed, blowing up their residences and towns and shops and… oh the hospitals … are the hospitals even safe?
They are asking whilst holding their injured/bleeding children, what have they done, why are they being punished like this? They just wanted to live in peace. But that’s really asking for too much.

There was even a bs story saying Hamas beheading babies, it’s not true… and leaders of Hamas came forth to say so.

I can’t understand why I’m feeling sorry for the people of Gaza and hubby says they started it by poking the bear. He says to me… how would you feel if our daughter was at a concert and then kidnapped?

I’m torn… and now….in my own birthplace Melbourne Au we are having troubles between Palestinians and Jews.
That burger place was bombed and the owners think it was racially motivated. The cops are saying it’s not. Don’t assume. But I ask… how would the cops know… were they there to witness it?
After all… it’s a bit of a coincidence happening at this point in time of unrest in Melbourne.

I wish both sides would show the world togetherness rather than division. That’s what I would have hoped our country stood for.
Tell me I’m dreaming’ Embarrassed

Hi Sophia. During any conflict, truth is always the casualty. You cannot really trust what either side is saying. And like you, I feel a sense of enormous helplessness at the scenes of utter destruction and tragedy. People on both sides suffers. Tensions are high.

What can we do? Just be good to your loved ones, to your friends and do an act of kindness to a stranger whoever they may be. There is way too much hatred in this world, and we need to balance that out with something kind and loving.

This is the truth part of it all… the feeling of helplessness. And you are correct re: doing what we can personally in our own power.
I wish I had a magic world peace wand …. Remember when Miss Universe contenders would say they want world peace?
Wish we all had just one year of world peace. But when in our lives do we recall any such year?
Amazing how the powers to be keep the negative news rolling in.
Is anything political with excuses to kill a good reason to take sides?

Melbourne needs to do something completely different and show the world we all live together in peace… the opportunity is not totally lost…
I’m putting it out there…
C’mon everyone …. that’s what immigrating to Au was about… for a better life… to leave conflicts behind.

We have our own problems here, more and more are becoming homeless… I see one sitting outside coles a couple days ago with a “I’m homeless” sign.
People walk past and ignore him…. I didn’t. Because….like you wrote Tickle…if any of us have the means to do what we can that’s in our path….that’s our way of not feeling helpless …

Trying not to be distracted from all the bad world and local news …. my kids gen (millennials) many have decided to stop watching the news I’ve recently noticed.
I want to not watch it either but… hubby is a news-aholic…. 4 o clock new, 5 o clock news, 6 o clock news and I crack it with him… I ask… how different do you think the news will be one hour between? Angry

Lucky I insist on watching The Chase at 5 o clock…. without guilt of escapism.

Back to top

IP Logged

Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20624 Gordon Gender:	Re: The human cost in Gaza Reply #992 - Nov 12^th, 2023 at 10:25am Sophia you mentioned the beach front property in Gaza you suspect the sneaky jews of wanting to occupy. If you think this is about money, go on then, follow that thought. Follow the money. [url] https://nypost.com/2023/11/07/news/hamas-leaders-worth-11bn-live-luxury-lives-in -qatar/[/url]
Back to top	IBI IP Logged

Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 84800 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: The human cost in Gaza Reply #993 - Nov 12^th, 2023 at 10:37am Teams of mega bulldozers would assist Melbourne greatly, too...
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

Grappler Truth Teller Feller

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 84800
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male

Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #994 - Nov 12^th, 2023 at 10:40am

tickleandrose wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 7:29am:

Re Freediver

My senario was to question what happens if Israel were to be established in Australia, under the Kimberly plan. If any critism exist, it is towards the government, not the actual people. I believe, that in any conflict, it is the politicians who benefits while the people suffers. As I mentioned before, Israel cannot be considered a liberal democracy. On Israel land, including the occupied territory, there are 7.3 million Jewish people, and 7.5 million palestinians. Those 7.5 million Palestinians have no right, and are living in squalors. That is not actions of a liberal democracy. An UN report prepared in 2018, specified clearly that:

For the past 54 years, Israeli authorities have facilitated the transfer of Jewish Israelis to the OPT and granted them a superior status under the law as compared to Palestinians living in the same territory when it comes to civil rights, access to land, and freedom to move, build, and confer residency rights to close relatives. While Palestinians have a limited degree of self-rule in parts of the OPT, Israel retains primary control over borders, airspace, the movement of people and goods, security, and the registry of the entire population, which in turn dictates such matters as legal status and eligibility to receive identity cards.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

I am sorry Freediver, but your dreams of liberal democratic Israel does not exist for everyone.

It would help if clearly biased supporters of one side would stop telling lies...

Back to top

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

IP Logged

tickleandrose

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4013
Gender: female

Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #995 - Nov 12^th, 2023 at 10:57am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 10:40am:

tickleandrose wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 7:29am:

Re Freediver

My senario was to question what happens if Israel were to be established in Australia, under the Kimberly plan. If any critism exist, it is towards the government, not the actual people. I believe, that in any conflict, it is the politicians who benefits while the people suffers. As I mentioned before, Israel cannot be considered a liberal democracy. On Israel land, including the occupied territory, there are 7.3 million Jewish people, and 7.5 million palestinians. Those 7.5 million Palestinians have no right, and are living in squalors. That is not actions of a liberal democracy. An UN report prepared in 2018, specified clearly that:

For the past 54 years, Israeli authorities have facilitated the transfer of Jewish Israelis to the OPT and granted them a superior status under the law as compared to Palestinians living in the same territory when it comes to civil rights, access to land, and freedom to move, build, and confer residency rights to close relatives. While Palestinians have a limited degree of self-rule in parts of the OPT, Israel retains primary control over borders, airspace, the movement of people and goods, security, and the registry of the entire population, which in turn dictates such matters as legal status and eligibility to receive identity cards.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

I am sorry Freediver, but your dreams of liberal democratic Israel does not exist for everyone.

It would help if clearly biased supporters of one side would stop telling lies...

Personally, I dont think there is any side really. Even if Israel achieve their objective, managed to kill off every last Hamas in existence. There will be Hamas 2.0, 3.0. Even if they dropped a nuclear bomb on Gaza (and yes it had being seriously suggested), and wiped out the entire Gazan population. There will still be no peace in Israel, there will be no happiness. Because all of these victories, would be based upon suffering of others, they would be short lived.

Back to top

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12583 Gender:	Re: The human cost in Gaza Reply #996 - Nov 12^th, 2023 at 11:04am tickleandrose wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 10:57am: Even if they dropped a nuclear bomb on Gaza (and yes it had being seriously suggested) It has not been seriously suggested... Where would the fallout land? Only on Gaza, you think?
Back to top	IP Logged

tickleandrose

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4013
Gender: female

Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #997 - Nov 12^th, 2023 at 11:12am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 11:04am:

tickleandrose wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 10:57am:

Even if they dropped a nuclear bomb on Gaza (and yes it had being seriously suggested)

It has not been seriously suggested...

Where would the fallout land? Only on Gaza, you think?

Hey dont shoot the messenger. I did not suggest that. But this guy did:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/far-right-minister-nuking-gaza-is-an-option-population-should-go-to-ireland-or-deserts/

I was just trying to say that even using the most extreme measures imaginable, there will be no victory to either side.

Back to top

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 12583
Gender: male

Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #998 - Nov 12^th, 2023 at 11:15am

tickleandrose wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 11:12am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 11:04am:

tickleandrose wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 10:57am:

Even if they dropped a nuclear bomb on Gaza (and yes it had being seriously suggested)

It has not been seriously suggested...

Where would the fallout land? Only on Gaza, you think?

Hey dont shoot the messenger. I did not suggest that. But this guy did:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/far-right-minister-nuking-gaza-is-an-option-population-should-go-to-ireland-or-deserts/

I was just trying to say that even using the most extreme measures imaginable, there will be no victory to either side.

So, not seriously suggested, then.

Back to top

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 58647
Here
Gender: male

Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #999 - Nov 12^th, 2023 at 11:22am

Frank wrote on Nov 11^th, 2023 at 1:57pm:

Dnarever wrote on Nov 11^th, 2023 at 1:20pm:

Yes we dodged one most likely. The Israelis have been the worst neighbours.

I like the idea but you could imagine them just keeping expanding into Australia till the Australian map looked like Palestine does today. Where Palestine have lost 75% of their land on top of what was the Israeli states original boundaries.

Israel still have plans to keep expanding into Palestinian territory with new settlements.

Israel is 26,000 km2.
West Bank, Golan Heights, East Jerusalem about 6,000 km2.

Together that is less than HALF of Tasmania's 68,000 km2.

While I was exagerating a bit you saying that it does not matter how much land they steal - it's ok.

Back to top

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 58647
Here
Gender: male

Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #1000 - Nov 12^th, 2023 at 11:31am

freediver wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 7:12am:

We have plenty of Jewish immigrants. They never tried to annex or create a separate state. They never have in the last 1000 years, despite being refugees over and over again. Not even in the middle east. There was an absence of a state there. They filled it with a liberal democracy.

This is one of the more absurd anti-Jewish conspiracy theories I have heard. It's pretty much the exact opposite of what you see them do.

Quote:

They never tried to annex or create a separate state.

That is exactly what Israel is.

Quote:

There was an absence of a state there.

There was a palestinian state that was being occupied by Britain.

Quote:

It's pretty much the exact opposite of what you see them do

They have increased their land holding by something like 400% since they were given the original land and are still expanding rapidly.

Back to top

IP Logged

aquascoot

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 34805
Gender: male

Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #1001 - Nov 12^th, 2023 at 11:35am

tickleandrose wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 10:57am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 10:40am:

tickleandrose wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 7:29am:

Re Freediver

My senario was to question what happens if Israel were to be established in Australia, under the Kimberly plan. If any critism exist, it is towards the government, not the actual people. I believe, that in any conflict, it is the politicians who benefits while the people suffers. As I mentioned before, Israel cannot be considered a liberal democracy. On Israel land, including the occupied territory, there are 7.3 million Jewish people, and 7.5 million palestinians. Those 7.5 million Palestinians have no right, and are living in squalors. That is not actions of a liberal democracy. An UN report prepared in 2018, specified clearly that:

For the past 54 years, Israeli authorities have facilitated the transfer of Jewish Israelis to the OPT and granted them a superior status under the law as compared to Palestinians living in the same territory when it comes to civil rights, access to land, and freedom to move, build, and confer residency rights to close relatives. While Palestinians have a limited degree of self-rule in parts of the OPT, Israel retains primary control over borders, airspace, the movement of people and goods, security, and the registry of the entire population, which in turn dictates such matters as legal status and eligibility to receive identity cards.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

I am sorry Freediver, but your dreams of liberal democratic Israel does not exist for everyone.

It would help if clearly biased supporters of one side would stop telling lies...

Personally, I dont think there is any side really. Even if Israel achieve their objective, managed to kill off every last Hamas in existence. There will be Hamas 2.0, 3.0. Even if they dropped a nuclear bomb on Gaza (and yes it had being seriously suggested), and wiped out the entire Gazan population. There will still be no peace in Israel, there will be no happiness. Because all of these victories, would be based upon suffering of others, they would be short lived.

its a co-dependant relationship.

people do so love their victimhood
people are addicted to their pain

palestinians who have dual citizenship in australia or canada choose to go back to palestine

why?

because the moronic west reward victimhood

stop rewarding victimhood, the incentive goes away and the palestinians can build a society.

but it will never happen whilst victimhood is a currency

the best thing to help any group who arent doing well is to model good behaviour and have zero tolerance for self pity.

Back to top

IP Logged

tickleandrose

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4013
Gender: female

Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #1002 - Nov 12^th, 2023 at 11:40am

aquascoot wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 11:35am:

tickleandrose wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 10:57am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 10:40am:

tickleandrose wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 7:29am:

Re Freediver

My senario was to question what happens if Israel were to be established in Australia, under the Kimberly plan. If any critism exist, it is towards the government, not the actual people. I believe, that in any conflict, it is the politicians who benefits while the people suffers. As I mentioned before, Israel cannot be considered a liberal democracy. On Israel land, including the occupied territory, there are 7.3 million Jewish people, and 7.5 million palestinians. Those 7.5 million Palestinians have no right, and are living in squalors. That is not actions of a liberal democracy. An UN report prepared in 2018, specified clearly that:

For the past 54 years, Israeli authorities have facilitated the transfer of Jewish Israelis to the OPT and granted them a superior status under the law as compared to Palestinians living in the same territory when it comes to civil rights, access to land, and freedom to move, build, and confer residency rights to close relatives. While Palestinians have a limited degree of self-rule in parts of the OPT, Israel retains primary control over borders, airspace, the movement of people and goods, security, and the registry of the entire population, which in turn dictates such matters as legal status and eligibility to receive identity cards.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

I am sorry Freediver, but your dreams of liberal democratic Israel does not exist for everyone.

It would help if clearly biased supporters of one side would stop telling lies...

Personally, I dont think there is any side really. Even if Israel achieve their objective, managed to kill off every last Hamas in existence. There will be Hamas 2.0, 3.0. Even if they dropped a nuclear bomb on Gaza (and yes it had being seriously suggested), and wiped out the entire Gazan population. There will still be no peace in Israel, there will be no happiness. Because all of these victories, would be based upon suffering of others, they would be short lived.

its a co-dependant relationship.

people do so love their victimhood
people are addicted to their pain

palestinians who have dual citizenship in australia or canada choose to go back to palestine

why?

because the moronic west reward victimhood

stop rewarding victimhood, the incentive goes away and the palestinians can build a society.

but it will never happen whilst victimhood is a currency

the best thing to help any group who arent doing well is to model good behaviour and have zero tolerance for self pity.

Or may be they are just visiting relatives?

Back to top

IP Logged

Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20624 Gordon Gender:	Re: The human cost in Gaza Reply #1003 - Nov 12^th, 2023 at 11:43am Follow the money https://nypost.com/2023/11/07/news/hamas-leaders-worth-11bn-live-luxury-lives-in...
Back to top	IBI IP Logged

tickleandrose

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4013
Gender: female

Re: The human cost in Gaza
Reply #1004 - Nov 12^th, 2023 at 11:47am

Gordon wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 11:43am:

Follow the money

https://nypost.com/2023/11/07/news/hamas-leaders-worth-11bn-live-luxury-lives-in...

Tell that to Israel. They are not bombing where the money is. They are bombing some of the most poorest people on the entire planet! These people have nothing left, except their lives.

Back to top

IP Logged