Australian Politics Forum - Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?

Lisa Jones

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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #195 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:15am

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:05am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:03am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 10:56am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 10:50am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 10:49am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 10:45am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2023 at 8:31pm:

Crimes committed are determined by courts and tribunals.

No they're not. They're determined by the fact that the act was committed.

You meant to say, "Guilt or innocence is determined by courts and tribunals".

The crime is committed, whether a person is found guilty or not. A raped person is suddenly not not raped because conviction rates for rape are appalling.

A crime has been committed when a court says a crime has been committed. When the woman is raped, evidence independent of the victim's mind-state must be presented.

So a raped person wasn't raped because a conviction wasn't following?

Are you seriously trying to argue that?

Apologies, I'm writing in English.

The court determines whether or not a crime has been committed after assessing the evidence.

And if a court finds on the admissible evidence before it ... that a crime has not been committed then the person is found not guilty. They are free to go.

Presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

A crime has not been committed by the defendant ... not that there was no crime at all.

Or are you arguing too that one can only be the victim of a crime if a court finds a person guilty of committing it?

I’m (clearly) not a structuralist like you are.

As a woman who has suffered from middle class domestic violence (a lot of stuff I’ve survived I’ve never posted about) I learned a long long time ago that in order to get anywhere is to work WITH the legal system.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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mothra

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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #196 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:19am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:12am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:08am:

I swear, stupidest bloody argument i've ever read on here.

No, you've done way worse than this... Like suggesting fetuses and infants can have conscious ideations, for example.

Stick to practising walking and farting at the same time... Forums don't work for you.

Conscious ideations? I never said that. I said they think. Perhaps you want to look into when during gestation the thalamo-cortical complex forms ... or when neuronal integration is signalled by both cortical hemispheres.

Do some research, eh?

Why must you always invent your opponents position to make yourself seem more right than you actually are?

Oooh, i know. Fragile ego.

But make no mistake, you arguing that people aren't actually raped until someone is convicted of it is without question the stupidest thing anyone has ever written on this forum.

Ever.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #197 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:20am

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:13am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:10am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:01am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 10:58am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 10:54am:

Then you would have committed the crime. Perhaps an investigation will lead a court to finding you guilty but your car is still cactus.

My god. This is the most ridiculous argument i've ever encountered i reckon.

You're not much of a thinker.

John would not be guilty of committing a crime regardless of whether he said he did if, in fact, I had destroyed the car without his assistance.

Yet the cr4ime itself exists, irrespective of outcome.

Are you so proud you can't admit you made a mistake?

Which crime has been committed? John says he stole my car. If the car wasn't stolen by him, then he did not commit a crime.

And if it turns out that a relative had borrowed the car and had forgotten to tell me...

Are rape victims suddenly unraped because there is no conviction?

Are the victims of child abuse not hurt because there are no prosecutions?

As you'd know, a woman is an alleged rape victim until evidence of rape is provided.

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Belgarion

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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #198 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:23am

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 10:31am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 10:27am:

Belgarion wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 10:13am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 10:01am:

Frank wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 9:48am:

Hamas official vows to repeat Israel attacks ‘again and again’ until it’s destroyed

https://nypost.com/2023/11/01/news/hamas-official-vows-to-repeat-israel-attacks-...

They don't want to negotiate, they don't want a "two state solution", nor the correction of past wrongs - they want to exterminate the Jews and....er.... that's it.

Yes, Hamas are evil terrorists.

Are you only just figuring that out? Roll Eyes

Meanwhile: "Amnesty International found that Israeli forces carried out attacks that violated international humanitarian law, including by failing to take feasible precautions to spare civilians, or by carrying out indiscriminate attacks that failed to distinguish between civilians and military objectives, or by carrying out attacks that may have been directed against civilian objects."

I condemn all war crimes and violations of humanitarian law.

You?

This is what happens when the terrorists hide behind the civilian population. It's a standard tactic to make the response to any attack seem disproportionate.

Killing 4,000 children IS disproportionate.

It's genocide. Israel have blown up areas they told the Gazans to flee to.

That and they've cut off food, water, sanitation and medical supplies, yet another war crime.

No you stupid woman, it is not "genocide". It is the unavoidable consequence of the Hamas tactic of hiding behind non combatants, thus forcing the Israelis either to let them escape or eliminate them knowing there will be innocent casualties and Islamic propaganda will make the most of it. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

After decades of almost ceaseless aggression form the neighbours and given the avowed intent of those neighbours to kill every single one of them, the Israelis have decided they don't have the luxury of allowing this tactic to work.

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #199 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:25am

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:19am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:12am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:08am:

I swear, stupidest bloody argument i've ever read on here.

No, you've done way worse than this... Like suggesting fetuses and infants can have conscious ideations, for example.

Stick to practising walking and farting at the same time... Forums don't work for you.

Conscious ideations? I never said that. I said they think. Perhaps you want to look into when during gestation the thalamo-cortical complex forms ... or when neuronal integration is signalled by both cortical hemispheres.

Do some research, eh?

Why must you always invent your opponents position to make yourself seem more right than you actually are?

Oooh, i know. Fragile ego.

But make no mistake, you arguing that people aren't actually raped until someone is convicted of it is without question the stupidest thing anyone has ever written on this forum.

Ever.

Did you say this -

mothra wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 7:21am:

Who on earth said we were born with no ideas?

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mothra

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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #200 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:26am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:20am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:13am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:10am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:01am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 10:58am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 10:54am:

Then you would have committed the crime. Perhaps an investigation will lead a court to finding you guilty but your car is still cactus.

My god. This is the most ridiculous argument i've ever encountered i reckon.

You're not much of a thinker.

John would not be guilty of committing a crime regardless of whether he said he did if, in fact, I had destroyed the car without his assistance.

Yet the cr4ime itself exists, irrespective of outcome.

Are you so proud you can't admit you made a mistake?

Which crime has been committed? John says he stole my car. If the car wasn't stolen by him, then he did not commit a crime.

And if it turns out that a relative had borrowed the car and had forgotten to tell me...

Are rape victims suddenly unraped because there is no conviction?

Are the victims of child abuse not hurt because there are no prosecutions?

As you'd know, a woman is an alleged rape victim until evidence of rape is provided.

LMAO!

No dude, she's been raped. She requires immediate support and care ... not support and care dependant on the outcome of a trial.

As you should no, a very small fraction of rapes result in a conviction for a number of very compelling reasons. They are still raped.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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mothra

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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #201 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:28am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:25am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:19am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:12am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:08am:

I swear, stupidest bloody argument i've ever read on here.

No, you've done way worse than this... Like suggesting fetuses and infants can have conscious ideations, for example.

Stick to practising walking and farting at the same time... Forums don't work for you.

Conscious ideations? I never said that. I said they think. Perhaps you want to look into when during gestation the thalamo-cortical complex forms ... or when neuronal integration is signalled by both cortical hemispheres.

Do some research, eh?

Why must you always invent your opponents position to make yourself seem more right than you actually are?

Oooh, i know. Fragile ego.

But make no mistake, you arguing that people aren't actually raped until someone is convicted of it is without question the stupidest thing anyone has ever written on this forum.

Ever.

Did you say this -

mothra wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 7:21am:

Who on earth said we were born with no ideas?

Deflection much?

You can't understand what i'm trying to say to you on this topic ... is that why you;re trying to drag another one in here?

Am i making you look foolish? You really don't like that, do you.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #202 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:28am

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:26am:

LMAO!

No dude, she's been raped. She requires immediate support and care ... not support and care dependant on the outcome of a trial.

As you should no, a very small fraction of rapes result in a conviction for a number of very compelling reasons. They are still raped.

And if she has fabricated the allegation?

Walking and farting, blue hairs... keep practising.

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mothra

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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #203 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:30am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:28am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:26am:

LMAO!

No dude, she's been raped. She requires immediate support and care ... not support and care dependant on the outcome of a trial.

As you should no, a very small fraction of rapes result in a conviction for a number of very compelling reasons. They are still raped.

And if she has fabricated the allegation?

Walking and farting, blue hairs... keep practising.

Then no rape occurred.

Did you really need that spelled out for you?

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #204 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:30am

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:28am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:25am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:19am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:12am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:08am:

I swear, stupidest bloody argument i've ever read on here.

No, you've done way worse than this... Like suggesting fetuses and infants can have conscious ideations, for example.

Stick to practising walking and farting at the same time... Forums don't work for you.

Conscious ideations? I never said that. I said they think. Perhaps you want to look into when during gestation the thalamo-cortical complex forms ... or when neuronal integration is signalled by both cortical hemispheres.

Do some research, eh?

Why must you always invent your opponents position to make yourself seem more right than you actually are?

Oooh, i know. Fragile ego.

But make no mistake, you arguing that people aren't actually raped until someone is convicted of it is without question the stupidest thing anyone has ever written on this forum.

Ever.

Did you say this -

mothra wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 7:21am:

Who on earth said we were born with no ideas?

Deflection much?

You can't understand what i'm trying to say to you on this topic ... is that why you;re trying to drag another one in here?

Am i making you look foolish? You really don't like that, do you.

You said you didn't say it, but you did.

You're just not smart enough for debate/discussion.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #205 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:32am

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:30am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:28am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:26am:

LMAO!

No dude, she's been raped. She requires immediate support and care ... not support and care dependant on the outcome of a trial.

As you should no, a very small fraction of rapes result in a conviction for a number of very compelling reasons. They are still raped.

And if she has fabricated the allegation?

Walking and farting, blue hairs... keep practising.

Then no rape occurred.

Did you really need that spelled out for you?

And how do you come to that conclusion independently? Would that be because the woman cannot provide any evidence of rape?

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mothra

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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #206 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:32am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:30am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:28am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:25am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:19am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:12am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:08am:

I swear, stupidest bloody argument i've ever read on here.

No, you've done way worse than this... Like suggesting fetuses and infants can have conscious ideations, for example.

Stick to practising walking and farting at the same time... Forums don't work for you.

Conscious ideations? I never said that. I said they think. Perhaps you want to look into when during gestation the thalamo-cortical complex forms ... or when neuronal integration is signalled by both cortical hemispheres.

Do some research, eh?

Why must you always invent your opponents position to make yourself seem more right than you actually are?

Oooh, i know. Fragile ego.

But make no mistake, you arguing that people aren't actually raped until someone is convicted of it is without question the stupidest thing anyone has ever written on this forum.

Ever.

Did you say this -

mothra wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 7:21am:

Who on earth said we were born with no ideas?

Deflection much?

You can't understand what i'm trying to say to you on this topic ... is that why you;re trying to drag another one in here?

Am i making you look foolish? You really don't like that, do you.

You said you didn't say it, but you did.

You're just not smart enough for debate/discussion.

I didn't say "conscious ideation" ... i said "who said they were born without any ideas".

Can you spot the difference?

Alas, it boots nothing trying to explain things to you so i'm relying of you to have some conscious ideation here.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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mothra

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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #207 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:34am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:32am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:30am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:28am:

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:26am:

LMAO!

No dude, she's been raped. She requires immediate support and care ... not support and care dependant on the outcome of a trial.

As you should no, a very small fraction of rapes result in a conviction for a number of very compelling reasons. They are still raped.

And if she has fabricated the allegation?

Walking and farting, blue hairs... keep practising.

Then no rape occurred.

Did you really need that spelled out for you?

And how do you come to that conclusion independently? Would that be because the woman cannot provide any evidence of rape?

What have i got to do with it?

Let me assure you, support for4 victims of crime presents itself without a court ruling.

What does that tell you?

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12621 Gender:	Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis? Reply #208 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:35am mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:32am: I didn't say "conscious ideation" ... i said "who said they were born without any ideas". Can you spot the difference? Can you? What ideas were you born with?
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #209 - Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:37am

mothra wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2023 at 11:34am:

What have i got to do with it?

Let me assure you, support for4 victims of crime presents itself without a court ruling.

What does that tell you?

It tells me that there are organisations that support women regarding their allegations regardless of requiring the testing of their allegation's veracity.

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Poll
Question: Are Israell and better than Nazis?
Yes 14 (70.0%) No 6 (30.0%) Total votes: 20 « Last Modified by: Vic on: Dec 20^th, 2023 at 3:29pm »