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Poll Poll
Question: Are Israell and better than Nazis?

Yes    
  14 (70.0%)
No    
  6 (30.0%)




Total votes: 20
« Last Modified by: Vic on: Dec 20th, 2023 at 3:29pm »

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Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis? (Read 10734 times)
MeisterEckhart
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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #255 - Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:24pm
 
John Smith wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 1:27pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 1:00pm:
Given his body has never been found, he was not declared murdered until a coronial inquest said he was.

Was Harold Holt actually murdered instead of having died from drowning? Was he abducted by a Soviet submarine?



It matters not one iota that his body was found. The only thing the coronal inquest did was give an official finding. he was murdered the day he was killed. Believe it or not, that he was murdered or not is not determined by what you know.

If Harold Holt drowned, your knowledge of it does not change that. He drowned irrespective of what you know. The same applies if he went on a russian sub, or whatever other theory you care to throw around. Whatever happened, happened. Your knowledge of it doesn't change what happened.


You are arguing that up until the point that science discovered that the earth orbits around the sun, the sun was orbiting around the earth (which was the popular belief at the time). it doesn't matter what you or anyone else believes or knows, it's the act that determines if a crime was committed. All a judge court does is determine of there is enough evidence to prosecute for the crime. They don't typically determine of the crime happened.

A court/inquest/authorised body determines if a crime is likely to have been committed - that there is enough evidence to come to that finding.

A coronial inquest can determine that someone was murdered... if it turns out that, say, he faked his death and turns up in Argentina, then the coroner's finding will be overturned. Similarly, if evidence is uncovered that he died of causes other than murder. The Chamberlain case was a classic example of this.

The case with Holt is the same. If, say, a death-bed confession of murder was made - with evidence to prove it, then the finding that Holt drowned at sea would be overturned.

That the sun revolves around the earth was true until it was overturned as a scientific fact when evidence that the reverse was true was accepted. If it turns out that nothing revolves around anything and that it is, say, the forces of dark matter that make it appear that the Earth revolves around the sun, then that will be the new truth.

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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #256 - Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:27pm
 
Belgarion wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:15pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 1:56pm:
Is someone here in this topic stating that Harold Holt was murdered?

I’m only asking as it’s difficult to read the topic posts as they’re not coming through. There’s a sh1tful time lag which I’m hoping is only due to the fact that I’m on my iPhone.



Don't worry about it Lisa, you are not missing anything constructive, or related to the OP for that matter.  Wink

Back to it, then. If Israel is no better than the Nazis then the British are no better than the Nazis with the bombing of German civilians.

In fact, that was exactly the dilemma the Nuremberg trials had to manage - charging the Nazis only with war crimes that were not also committed by the Allies.

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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #257 - Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:28pm
 
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #258 - Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:28pm
 
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Belgarion
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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #259 - Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:38pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:27pm:
Belgarion wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:15pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 1:56pm:
Is someone here in this topic stating that Harold Holt was murdered?

I’m only asking as it’s difficult to read the topic posts as they’re not coming through. There’s a sh1tful time lag which I’m hoping is only due to the fact that I’m on my iPhone.



Don't worry about it Lisa, you are not missing anything constructive, or related to the OP for that matter.  Wink

Back to it, then. If Israel is no better than the Nazis then the British are no better than the Nazis with the bombing of German civilians.

In fact, that was exactly the dilemma the Nuremberg trials had to manage - charging the Nazis only with war crimes that were not also committed by the Allies.



It is a dilemma. As I said in my earlier post, the Israelis are damned if they do and damned if they don't. There are no good options here. I believe that they have taken the least worst one.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #260 - Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:45pm
 
Belgarion wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:38pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:27pm:
Belgarion wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:15pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 1:56pm:
Is someone here in this topic stating that Harold Holt was murdered?

I’m only asking as it’s difficult to read the topic posts as they’re not coming through. There’s a sh1tful time lag which I’m hoping is only due to the fact that I’m on my iPhone.



Don't worry about it Lisa, you are not missing anything constructive, or related to the OP for that matter.  Wink

Back to it, then. If Israel is no better than the Nazis then the British are no better than the Nazis with the bombing of German civilians.

In fact, that was exactly the dilemma the Nuremberg trials had to manage - charging the Nazis only with war crimes that were not also committed by the Allies.



It is a dilemma. As I said in my earlier post, the Israelis are damned if they do and damned if they don't. There are no good options here. I believe that they have taken the least worst one.

Yes, and it doesn't help that Israel is being held to standards higher than any other country would hold itself to.
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #261 - Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:46pm
 
Finally we’re getting to the point. Thank you Meister. Thank you Belgarian.
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #262 - Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:46pm
 
*
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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Bobby.
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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #263 - Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:48pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:27pm:
Belgarion wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:15pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 1:56pm:
Is someone here in this topic stating that Harold Holt was murdered?

I’m only asking as it’s difficult to read the topic posts as they’re not coming through. There’s a sh1tful time lag which I’m hoping is only due to the fact that I’m on my iPhone.



Don't worry about it Lisa, you are not missing anything constructive, or related to the OP for that matter.  Wink

Back to it, then. If Israel is no better than the Nazis then the British are no better than the Nazis with the bombing of German civilians.

In fact, that was exactly the dilemma the Nuremberg trials had to manage - charging the Nazis only with war crimes that were not also committed by the Allies.




The world was hoping to see the end of such war crimes as
indiscriminate bombing of cities after WW2 but it continues to this very day.
When the Allies won WW2 it was a hollow victory as they lost their souls to do it.

The worst criminals are the Govts. of this world.

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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #264 - Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:53pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:48pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:27pm:
Belgarion wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:15pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 1:56pm:
Is someone here in this topic stating that Harold Holt was murdered?

I’m only asking as it’s difficult to read the topic posts as they’re not coming through. There’s a sh1tful time lag which I’m hoping is only due to the fact that I’m on my iPhone.



Don't worry about it Lisa, you are not missing anything constructive, or related to the OP for that matter.  Wink

Back to it, then. If Israel is no better than the Nazis then the British are no better than the Nazis with the bombing of German civilians.

In fact, that was exactly the dilemma the Nuremberg trials had to manage - charging the Nazis only with war crimes that were not also committed by the Allies.




The world was hoping to see the end of such war crimes as
indiscriminate bombing of cities after WW2 but it continues to this very day.
When the Allies won WW2 it was a hollow victory as they lost their souls to do it.

The worst criminals are the Govts. of this world.


The greatest moral risk in war is acting on revenge.
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Bobby.
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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #265 - Nov 3rd, 2023 at 3:00pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:53pm:
Bobby. wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:48pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:27pm:
Belgarion wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 2:15pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 1:56pm:
Is someone here in this topic stating that Harold Holt was murdered?

I’m only asking as it’s difficult to read the topic posts as they’re not coming through. There’s a sh1tful time lag which I’m hoping is only due to the fact that I’m on my iPhone.



Don't worry about it Lisa, you are not missing anything constructive, or related to the OP for that matter.  Wink

Back to it, then. If Israel is no better than the Nazis then the British are no better than the Nazis with the bombing of German civilians.

In fact, that was exactly the dilemma the Nuremberg trials had to manage - charging the Nazis only with war crimes that were not also committed by the Allies.




The world was hoping to see the end of such war crimes as
indiscriminate bombing of cities after WW2 but it continues to this very day.
When the Allies won WW2 it was a hollow victory as they lost their souls to do it.

The worst criminals are the Govts. of this world.


The greatest moral risk in war is acting on revenge.



The Germans bombed London for 57 nights in a row in the Blitz.
They thought it was a good idea as Britain would
never be able to do the same to their cities.  Embarrassed

Well - it didn't turn out that way and Israel should remember that -
as their own cities may get a walloping from Hezbollah with 150,000 rockets -
many are large and precision guided.
Human beings never learn from history which is why we repeat our mistakes.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #266 - Nov 3rd, 2023 at 3:03pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 3:00pm:
Human beings never learn from history which is why we repeat our mistakes.

We can't learn from history with war, because it's a human instinct.
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Bobby.
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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #267 - Nov 3rd, 2023 at 3:07pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 3:03pm:
Bobby. wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 3:00pm:
Human beings never learn from history which is why we repeat our mistakes.

We can't learn from history with war, because it's a human instinct.



Israel should have learnt by now.
I would say that their bombing campaign has done very little to weaken Hamas
and most of the tunnels are still intact as some are 70 meters deep.
What they have done is turn the world against Israel as the appalling
civilian casualties are beamed live to the whole world.

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freediver
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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #268 - Nov 3rd, 2023 at 3:15pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 3:07pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 3:03pm:
Bobby. wrote on Nov 3rd, 2023 at 3:00pm:
Human beings never learn from history which is why we repeat our mistakes.

We can't learn from history with war, because it's a human instinct.



Israel should have learnt by now.
I would say that their bombing campaign has done very little to weaken Hamas
and most of the tunnels are still intact as some are 70 meters deep.
What they have done is turn the world against Israel as the appalling
civilian casualties are beamed live to the whole world.



The world has turned against Gaza. It has very few friends and a lot of powerful enemies. Even Egypt is blockading it.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Are the Israelis any better than the Nazis?
Reply #269 - Nov 3rd, 2023 at 3:27pm
 
Gaza's problem is that the Arab nations, almost universally, want nothing to do with Gaza, or even the Palestinian cause.

After 75 years, they have all grown into the fact that Israel cannot be 'driven into the sea'.

This war is likely the Iranian theocracy's last-ditch attempt to prevent the Abraham Peace Accords from succeeding.

The signing of that accord would likely signal the end of Iran's ambitions of becoming the dominant power in the region, which would then be controlled by a Sunni Muslim/Israeli alliance.
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