Australian Politics Forum - THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR

MeisterEckhart

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Re: THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR
Reply #105 - Nov 26^th, 2023 at 11:03am

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 10:54am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 10:45am:

The Jewish religious claim is no different to a cultural claim - both may be contentious, but they are not bogus.

The Jewish settlers' claims to the WB are bogus, based on OT "Promised Land" mythology eg as spouted by the FITH Jewish murderer of PM Rabin.

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Looks like you and Xi have one thing in common - you're both isolated from reality.

Resorting to ad hominems again...again, no cigar...

That you can't see the difference between 'natural'/ instinctive law, and man-made law in a new world order, is your intellectual incapacity.

The Jewish Tanakh (the Christian Old Testament) is the current text that defines modern Jews religiously and culturally in the present. It's not an ancient claim recently resurrected, it has existed in Jewish religion and culture consistently, for thousands of years to the present day.

Not only is it worthy of a cigar, it wins the whole factory.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR
Reply #106 - Nov 26^th, 2023 at 11:15am

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 10:48am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 10:42am:

Law is dependent on the societies it serves - what is legal and acceptable in one jurisdiction can be the reverse in another.

International law is predicated on world concensus at a given historical time.

Human nature, including its contemporary comprehension, influences and informs societal sensibilities, which influence and inform lawmakers.

When societal sensibilities and circumstances change, the law changes to accommodate and manage them.

That's conservative progressivism for ya!! Works as it should...

It applies to liberal progressivism as well - usually predicated on how to accommodate and manage youthful aspirations and expectations.

It's not a left/right thing.

How different pre-boomer societal sensibilities were to boomer and post-boomer sensibilities that have led to dramatic changes to the law.

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12869 Gender:	Re: THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR Reply #107 - Nov 26^th, 2023 at 11:17am thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 10:54am: That you can't see the difference between 'natural'/ instinctive law, and man-made law in a new world order, is your intellectual incapacity. All law is man-made.
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR
Reply #108 - Nov 26^th, 2023 at 12:34pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 11:15am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 10:48am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 10:42am:

Law is dependent on the societies it serves - what is legal and acceptable in one jurisdiction can be the reverse in another.

International law is predicated on world concensus at a given historical time.

Human nature, including its contemporary comprehension, influences and informs societal sensibilities, which influence and inform lawmakers.

When societal sensibilities and circumstances change, the law changes to accommodate and manage them.

That's conservative progressivism for ya!! Works as it should...

It applies to liberal progressivism as well - usually predicated on how to accommodate and manage youthful aspirations and expectations.

It's not a left/right thing.

How different pre-boomer societal sensibilities were to boomer and post-boomer sensibilities that have led to dramatic changes to the law.

Aye, there could be some truth in what you say - but the fact remains - an unjust law is not law at all, and no unjust law may be placed upon a people by the sole act of a bunch of clowns raising their hands in unison... there are rules, you see... one of which is that the 'independent' courts (LMFAO) must first guarantee by the proper standards that a legislation passed as law actually fits the requirements for Law.... (note the difference) ... and if it does not - if it in any way does not subscribe to the fundamental rules surrounding law - then it must be struck down at first glance.

Such things as discriminatory laws are in that category - if they are not equal rights as required by law - then adios, baby ... the courts are required to do right by all equally under Law (not under law, legislation or regulation, the last of which must be under the same encompassment as any other governance, and the first two of which must first pass that Test of Law) as per their oath of office - and NOT by the oath of office as applies to police - to uphold the law/legislation as WRITTEN.

It is therefore incumbent upon the courts to properly oversee all legislation before it can be passed into Law... THAT is one major component of theproper 'separation of powers' between state and Law that MUST b e properly established for the first time in this (and quite a few other nations) nation.

Ergo - until it has passed the proper test of Law - a law cannot be Law..... and may, and always will remain until properly validated, an unjust law .... you'll get there one day....

Now then - about that crying need to set these 'courts' on their proper path....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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thegreatdivide

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Re: THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR
Reply #109 - Nov 26^th, 2023 at 12:43pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 11:03am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 10:54am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 10:45am:

The Jewish religious claim is no different to a cultural claim - both may be contentious, but they are not bogus.

The Jewish settlers' claims to the WB are bogus, based on OT "Promised Land" mythology eg as spouted by the FITH Jewish murderer of PM Rabin.

Quote:

Looks like you and Xi have one thing in common - you're both isolated from reality.

Resorting to ad hominems again...again, no cigar...

That you can't see the difference between 'natural'/ instinctive law, and man-made law in a new world order, is your intellectual incapacity.

The Jewish Tanakh (the Christian Old Testament) is the current text that defines modern Jews religiously and culturally in the present.

Er ...magical thinking?

An anachronistic, largely bronze-age text cited eg, by Rabin's murderer, "defines Jews in the present"?

This is why these texts need to be exposed for what they are, ie historical records of ancient mythologies.

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It's not an ancient claim recently resurrected, it has existed in Jewish religion and culture consistently, for thousands of years to the present day.

Yes - like the present claim that the Koran is the final true revelation of the Word of God.

Good one....

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Not only is it worthy of a cigar, it wins the whole factory.

Apart from some human wisdom contained within its pages, it's worthy of being tossed into the dust-bin of history. (The NT has much more going for it).

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thegreatdivide

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Re: THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR
Reply #110 - Nov 26^th, 2023 at 1:04pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 10:42am:

Law is dependent on the societies it serves - what is legal and acceptable in one jurisdiction can be the reverse in another.

You are merely arguing against an international rules- based order; that's your reptilian brain, driving non- reasoning instinct, as usual.

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International law is predicated on world concensus at a given historical time.

Yeh .... like at San Fransico in 1946, with much of the world laying in self-inflicted ruins; but the human 'neanderthals' with their triumphant instincts STILL won the day, demanding the UNSC veto...

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Human nature, including its contemporary comprehension, influences and informs societal sensibilities, which influence and inform lawmakers.

Yeh.... pity about that.

Law needs to be directed to the cause of universal well-being and security.

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When societal sensibilities and circumstances change, the law changes to accommodate and manage them.

Pity about "sensibilities"; with acquiesence in the slaughter of children which is still considered 'unavoidable' .....

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« Last Edit: Nov 26^th, 2023 at 1:10pm by thegreatdivide »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR
Reply #111 - Nov 26^th, 2023 at 1:15pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 11:17am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 10:54am:

That you can't see the difference between 'natural'/ instinctive law, and man-made law in a new world order, is your intellectual incapacity.

All law is man-made.

Yeh...but some law is made by modern day Neanderthals like you....(not an ad hominem, because you are indeed arguing for the triump of instinct over reason... hence a "Neanderthal", by definition).

5000 ( + 500?) children recently slaughtered, to serve your sick "freedom" ideology.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR
Reply #112 - Nov 26^th, 2023 at 1:38pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 1:15pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 11:17am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 10:54am:

That you can't see the difference between 'natural'/ instinctive law, and man-made law in a new world order, is your intellectual incapacity.

All law is man-made.

Yeh...but some law is made by modern day Neanderthals like you....(not an ad hominem, because you are indeed arguing for the triump of instinct over reason... hence a "Neanderthal", by definition).

5000 ( + 500?) children recently slaughtered, to serve your sick "freedom" ideology.

Awww... you're a lonely old bitch! Have you tried seniors' lawn bowls?

Human instinct and sensibility always trump reason. Human reason retrospectively justifies instinct and sensibility.

Reason arises from human instincts and sensibilities.

Where else can law through reason arise from? Or are you proposing that a transcendental interventionist god actually writes laws on stone tablets that transcend or contradict human instinct and sensibility?

Either that or you're deifying reason - as if reason itself was a universal force for good - never for the worse.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR
Reply #113 - Nov 26^th, 2023 at 4:39pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 1:38pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 1:15pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 11:17am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 10:54am:

That you can't see the difference between 'natural'/ instinctive law, and man-made law in a new world order, is your intellectual incapacity.

All law is man-made.

Yeh...but some law is made by modern day Neanderthals like you....(not an ad hominem, because you are indeed arguing for the triump of instinct over reason... hence a "Neanderthal", by definition).

5000 ( + 500?) children recently slaughtered, to serve your sick "freedom" ideology.

Awww... you're a lonely old bitch! Have you tried seniors' lawn bowls?

Back to the ad hominems.... but let's read on, to see you continue making a fool of yourself with your delusional individual freedom/rights ideology

Quote:

Human instinct and sensibility always trump reason. Human reason retrospectively justifies instinct and sensibility.

Reason encompasses 'sensibility'/perception - unless you are a Neanderthal like yourself.

Quote:

Reason arises from human instincts and sensibilities.

There you are, hung by your own ignorance and stupidty; reason arises from the capacity to think (endowed by the human cortex brain), independently of instinct.

Quote:

Where else can law through reason arise from?

From the cortex brain, dummy.

Quote:

Or are you proposing that a transcendental interventionist god actually writes laws on stone tablets that transcend or contradict human instinct and sensibility?

No....now you have descended to asking FD's silly questions.

Quote:

Either that or you're deifying reason - as if reason itself was a universal force for good - never for the worse.

Pure reason - following from the capacity for analysis - is neither good or evil (it's a gift of God granted to humans); but it can distinguish between good or evil, and make laws on behalf of universal well-being and collective security.

Or it can be crippled by your reptilian brain which is still kicking and screaming after a billion years of evolution....

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR
Reply #114 - Nov 26^th, 2023 at 5:43pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 4:39pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 1:38pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 1:15pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 11:17am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 10:54am:

That you can't see the difference between 'natural'/ instinctive law, and man-made law in a new world order, is your intellectual incapacity.

All law is man-made.

Yeh...but some law is made by modern day Neanderthals like you....(not an ad hominem, because you are indeed arguing for the triump of instinct over reason... hence a "Neanderthal", by definition).

5000 ( + 500?) children recently slaughtered, to serve your sick "freedom" ideology.

Awww... you're a lonely old bitch! Have you tried seniors' lawn bowls?

Back to the ad hominems.... but let's read on, to see you continue making a fool of yourself with your delusional individual freedom/rights ideology

Quote:

Human instinct and sensibility always trump reason. Human reason retrospectively justifies instinct and sensibility.

Reason encompasses 'sensibility'/perception - unless you are a Neanderthal like yourself.

Quote:

Reason arises from human instincts and sensibilities.

There you are, hung by your own ignorance and stupidty; reason arises from the capacity to think (endowed by the human cortex brain), independently of instinct.

Quote:

Where else can law through reason arise from?

From the cortex brain, dummy.

Quote:

Or are you proposing that a transcendental interventionist god actually writes laws on stone tablets that transcend or contradict human instinct and sensibility?

No....now you have descended to asking FD's silly questions.

Quote:

Either that or you're deifying reason - as if reason itself was a universal force for good - never for the worse.

Pure reason - following from the capacity for analysis - is neither good or evil (it's a gift of God granted to humans); but it can distinguish between good or evil, and make laws on behalf of universal well-being and collective security.

Or it can be crippled by your reptilian brain which is still kicking and screaming after a billion years of evolution....

Geez, where to start with this dribble...

Define perception such that it's not just a synonym of sensibility or a component of it.

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Reason arises from a capacity to think.

As all humans think, explain the significance of this where thought does not arise from, and is not informed by, human instinct and sensibility.

Quote:

[Reason] arises from the cortex brain.

Explain this where the cortex brain is separate and independent of, and is not informed by, human instinct and sensibility.

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Reason is 'a gift of God granted to humans'

so you can insinuate a deity into your argument, but Jews can't, then. And if the deity is wrathful?

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and make laws on behalf of universal well-being and collective security.

What divine revelation are you referring to that spoke of 'universal well-being and collective security'?

Or do you think a god spoke to you directly after the nurse spiked your milk with morphine?

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Setanta Gold Member Offline \/ Peace man! Posts: 16619 Northern NSW Gender:	Re: THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR Reply #115 - Nov 26^th, 2023 at 6:49pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 5:43pm: Or do you think a god spoke to you directly after the nurse spiked your milk with morphine? The CCP.
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR
Reply #116 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 5:45am

Anyway, Poppets - now is a good time to return to the subject of those two men killed in Gaza for 'spying for the Israelis' - more likely they were denounced by an enemy, or simply so that HAMAS could 'make a statement' and so forth - I can't see anyone there seriously 'spying for Israel'...

I have pointed out to you time and again the very real perils inherent in any regime of 'guilt by accusation' - tell me this - what real chance did those men have once they were accused and then held up to the standards of an emotion driven court such as we see increasingly even here in the once-civilised west, its essential civilisation based on calm reason as opposed to some emotional nightmare imposed by every ratbag who comes along with a grievance?

I do so again, in the context of asking simply - "What real chance did those men have once they were accused?" ... and do not laugh.... for you will not be he who laughs last...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR
Reply #117 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 5:58am

Further in that vein - how interesting it is to see those who come here with the greatest dose of emotion driven insanity, are the very ones who also bring with them the criticism that somehow this is a small, backwoods, forum filled with nobodies... and yet they come here to spread their vitriol.....

Rather than being a small back woods forum - this is as close to a perfect microcosm as you will find in Poor Fellow My Country at this time - with every failed and flawed approach to the New Civilisation being shown clearly for what it is - and the ways in which people think and behave in reality clear for all to see...

The recent Mod election showed us the true depths to which the human spirit can fall... and that is why political flunkies are under orders to actually check in here and separate the wheat from the dross.... I've told you that I've seen and heard the exact same words uttered here by some in the utterances of political hacks ... and that is why.

Here is Microcosm..... keep up the good work, including those of you so lost you cannot even begin to see Reason ...... you are demonstrating to the world the range of thinking and non-thinking that is out there on countless subjects. Now go - tell the school children where they are wrong about Palestine .....

...we Aussies were that close to going out..... but there was one man who taught us to unite, to organise, to fight against the party machines.... his name was Connor, Sarah - John Connor - your son ... and he once said to me long ago that the battle for the future begins tonight.... and I didn't understand then what he meant... except that now is tonight, and he has sent me back from the future to tell you this.... his code name is The Grappler.... and he said to tell you that you must be stronger than you could ever imagine yourself to be...... that's all I can tell you .... but we have to move... and move quickly before that Terminator finds us.... come on.....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Redmond Neck Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 21663 ACT Gender:	Re: THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR Reply #118 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 6:23am I am not surprised that this attack by HAMAS occured when it did, The Israelis has thousands of Arabs imprisoned without trial or ability to appeal, even kids who threw rocks at soldiers etc. Serves the bastards right in my opinion! As that saying goes "their NAZI masters taught them well" !
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thegreatdivide

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Re: THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR
Reply #119 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 8:50am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 5:43pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 4:39pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 1:38pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 1:15pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 11:17am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 26^th, 2023 at 10:54am:

That you can't see the difference between 'natural'/ instinctive law, and man-made law in a new world order, is your intellectual incapacity.

All law is man-made.

Yeh...but some law is made by modern day Neanderthals like you....(not an ad hominem, because you are indeed arguing for the triump of instinct over reason... hence a "Neanderthal", by definition).

5000 ( + 500?) children recently slaughtered, to serve your sick "freedom" ideology.

Awww... you're a lonely old bitch! Have you tried seniors' lawn bowls?

Back to the ad hominems.... but let's read on, to see you continue making a fool of yourself with your delusional individual freedom/rights ideology

Quote:

Human instinct and sensibility always trump reason. Human reason retrospectively justifies instinct and sensibility.

Reason encompasses 'sensibility'/perception - unless you are a Neanderthal like yourself.

Quote:

Reason arises from human instincts and sensibilities.

There you are, hung by your own ignorance and stupidty; reason arises from the capacity to think (endowed by the human cortex brain), independently of instinct.

Quote:

Where else can law through reason arise from?

From the cortex brain, dummy.

Quote:

Or are you proposing that a transcendental interventionist god actually writes laws on stone tablets that transcend or contradict human instinct and sensibility?

No....now you have descended to asking FD's silly questions.

Quote:

Either that or you're deifying reason - as if reason itself was a universal force for good - never for the worse.

Pure reason - following from the capacity for analysis - is neither good or evil (it's a gift of God granted to humans); but it can distinguish between good or evil, and make laws on behalf of universal well-being and collective security.

Or it can be crippled by your reptilian brain which is still kicking and screaming after a billion years of evolution....

Geez, where to start with this dribble...

"Dribble"....like this self-serving justification of your neanderthal instincts:

"Reason arises from human instincts and sensibilities".

Reason - analytical thinking - is not instinct, obviously. Animals don't reason.

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Define perception such that it's not just a synonym of sensibility or a component of it.

Perception isn't reasoning, it's perceiving via the senses.

Quote:

GD

Reason arises from a capacity to think

. As all humans think, explain the significance of this where thought does not arise from, and is not informed by, human instinct and sensibility.

It's the task of human civilization to free itself from thinking influenced by instinct, where this results in catastrophe.

"Civilization is a race between education (my edit: "instinct-free thinking") and catastrophe" HG Wells.

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GD

[Reason] arises from the cortex brain

. Explain this where the cortex brain is separate and independent of, and is not informed by, human instinct and sensibility.

The cortex brain is an evolved appendage to the the reptilian brain. The task of human civilization is to free itself from the negative consequences of mindless instinct, where these result in disaster eg war. Start by getting rid of the veto in the UNSC., and implementing the provisions of the UNUDHR.

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GD

Reason is 'a gift of God granted to humans

'
so you can insinuate a deity into your argument, but Jews can't, then. And if the deity is wrathful?

The Jewish God IS wrathful, authourizing genocide (Moses had to intecede on even the Jews' behalf to stop God destroying them also...); that's why Marcion, when collating texts for the evolving NT canon in the first century AD, rejected the OT entirely. But reason in conjunction with 'reverence for life' (Albert Schweitzer) is joyful.

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GD

and make laws on behalf of universal well-being and collective security.

What divine revelation are you referring to that spoke of 'universal well-being and collective security'?

See artists and humanitarians like Schweitzer (above).

Quote:

Or do you think a god spoke to you directly after the nurse spiked your milk with morphine?

Your desperate, instinctive, unthinking 'freedom or death' ideation has crippled your mind, obviously.

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