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THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR (Read 2579 times)

MeisterEckhart

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Re: THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR
Reply #120 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 9:29am

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 8:50am:

Define perception such that it's not just a synonym of sensibility or a component of it.

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Perception isn't reasoning, it's perceiving via the senses.

You didn't explain perception such that it's not just a synonym of sensibility or a component of it - you spewed up 'perception is perceiving'.

Let me help you out of your mudhole. Perception is a component of sensibility. We perceive what we learn to see and hear - it's why the same experiences in separate individuals, when processed through different cultural filters, arrive at different conclusions about what was perceived and what those perceptions mean relative to the individuals' sensibility.

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GD Reason arises from a capacity to think. As all humans think, explain the significance of this where thought does not arise from, and is not informed by, human instinct and sensibility.

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It's the task of human civilization to free itself from thinking influenced by instinct, where this results in catastrophe.

How do you think or reason uninfluenced by human instinct and sensibility?

In what way would you know you're thinking or reasoning without them being informed by human instinct and sensibility?

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GD [Reason] arises from the cortex brain. Explain this where the cortex brain is separate and independent of, and is not informed by, human instinct and sensibility.

The cortex brain is an evolved appendage to the the reptilian brain. The task of human civilization is to free itself from the negative consequences of mindless instinct, where these result in disaster eg war.

The cerebral cortex evolved from the mammalian brain structure and is present in all mammalian brains - to a greater or lesser degree depending on species.

Reasoning capacity among mammalian species relative to humans is a matter of degree not kind.

It is informed by instinct arising from lower brain structures and integrates them with human sensibilities informed by lower and higher brain functions.

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GD Reason is 'a gift of God granted to humans'
so you can insinuate a deity into your argument, but Jews can't, then. And if the deity is wrathful?

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The Jewish God IS wrathful, authourizing genocide (Moses had to intecede on even the Jews' behalf to stop God destroying them also...); that's why Marcion, when collating texts for the evolving NT canon in the first century AD, rejected the OT entirely. But reason in conjunction with 'reverence for life' (Albert Schweitzer) is joyful.

So you can insinuate a deity into your argument, but Jews can't, then. And is your deity wrathful, or just your internal dialogue arising from your isolation from society and community?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR
Reply #121 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 10:34am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 9:29am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 8:50am:

Define perception such that it's not just a synonym of sensibility or a component of it.

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Perception isn't reasoning, it's perceiving via the senses.

Which means nothing more than perception is a component of consciousness. Dogs have it. Nothing to do with reason, the capacity for which is evolution's gift to homo sapiens.

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We perceive what we learn to see and hear -

Goobledegook: conscious beings see and hear without having to learn to perceive, a jelly fish can 'perceive' its environment.

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it's why the same experiences in separate individuals, when processed through different cultural filters, arrive at different conclusions about what was perceived and what those perceptions mean relative to the individuals' sensibility.

And what of reality... you are still confusing perception with reason, which tells us all ideological differences are delusional; there is only one truth/reality.

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How do you think or reason uninfluenced by human instinct and sensibility?

By thinking and learning, and becoming 'enlightened' - ie self-aware (of one's motivations); "know thyself".

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In what way would you know you're thinking or reasoning without them being informed by human instinct and sensibility?

When life, not death, is the outcome of the thinking.

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The cerebral cortex evolved from the mammalian brain structure and is present in all mammalian brains - to a greater or lesser degree depending on species.

So far, so good, not contradicting what I said.

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Reasoning capacity among mammalian species relative to humans is a matter of degree not kind.

...the degree meaning able to CHOOSE between possible behaviours, other than driven by instinct, eg "make love not war...".

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It is informed by instinct arising from lower brain structures and integrates them with human sensibilities informed by lower and higher brain functions.

"Informed by"...and open to rejection by the reasoning person, as opposed to the merely 'thinking' person who is deluded eg, by "freedom or death" ideation.

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So you can insinuate a deity into your argument, but Jews can't, then.

And I explained why, but it went straight over your brain, crippled by its "freedom or death" ideation.

Schweitzer's God is referenced in the concept of'reverence for life', the Jewish God is a bronze-age "jealous God" given to authorizing genocide.

In any case, no need to "insinuate" a God; consciousness and the possibility for humans to experience transcendence don't require belief in ancient scripture.

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And is your deity wrathful, or just your internal dialogue arising from your isolation from society and community?

Now you are just mindlessly repeating what you have said previously; obviously 'reverence for life' is the opposite to your 'freedom or death' ideation which is based on opposing ideologies.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR
Reply #122 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 10:57am

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 10:34am:

Let me help you out of your mudhole. Perception is a component of sensibility.

Which means nothing more than perception is a component of consciousness. Dogs have it. Nothing to do with reason, the capacity for which is evolution's gift to homo sapiens.

High-order primates reason all the time. As do other mammals like all species of canine. You thinking is 19th century.

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We perceive what we learn to see and hear -

Goobledegook: conscious beings see and hear without having to learn to perceive, a jelly fish can 'perceive' its environment.

Let me help you. Blind people from birth whose sight is restored don't just open their eyes and see what is to be seen. As they have not learned to perceive anything nor been informed of what these perceptions mean - they see only a meaningless kaleidoscope of colour.

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And what of reality... you are still confusing perception with reason, which tells us all ideological differences are delusional; there is only one truth/reality.

Let me help again. Witnesses to the same incident, standing alongside each other, cam perceive and reason what they have witnessed and be entirely at odds with each other about what happened. Why is that, you think?

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How do you think or reason uninfluenced by human instinct and sensibility?

By thinking and learning, and becoming 'enlightened' - ie self-aware (of one's motivations); "know thyself".

What does knowing yourself mean in isolation from human instinct and sensibility?

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In what way would you know you're thinking or reasoning without them being informed by human instinct and sensibility?

When life, not death, is the outcome of the thinking.

Life, not death is exactly the outcome that human instinct is for.
That which harms me = bad. That which helps me = good.

It's why when we hear a sudden loud noise, we instinctively crouch to protect our organs.

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Reasoning capacity among mammalian species relative to humans is a matter of degree not kind.

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...the degree meaning able to CHOOSE between possible behaviours, other than driven by instinct, eg "make love not war...".

How do we choose anything that is not informed by human instinct and sensibility?

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It is informed by instinct arising from lower brain structures and integrates them with human sensibilities informed by lower and higher brain functions.

"Informed by"...and open to rejection by the reasoning person, as opposed to the merely 'thinking' person who is deluded eg, by "freedom or death" ideation.

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So you can insinuate a deity into your argument, but Jews can't, then.

And I explained why, but it went straight over your brain, crippled by its "freedom or death" ideation.

No. You crapped on about Schweitzer.

What you think is a god that has reverence for life, like your erotic obsession with the CCP, maybe for others a disease that needs to be eradicated.

Given you insinuated a deity into your argument to explain reason, you left reason behind and wafted off into mysticism.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: THE HIDDEN COST OF THE GAZA WAR
Reply #123 - Nov 28^th, 2023 at 10:18am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 10:57am:

What does knowing yourself mean in isolation from human instinct and sensibility?

It means knowing (being aware of) both instinct, and your capacity to think independently of it, something animals can't do. Of course, instinct is unconscious, but its existance can be inferred by observation.

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Life, not death is exactly the outcome that human instinct is for.

.

Of course, nature began with instinct as the organism's survival mechanism. But unmanaged instinct in the aggregate runs the risk of destruction, given men's abilities to engage in technology-enhanced arms races, and the potential for MAD.

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That which harms me = bad. That which helps me = good.

Yes, at the individual level; but an arms race might result in catastrophe.

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It's why when we hear a sudden loud noise, we instinctively crouch to protect our organs.

That's right, the unthinking survival mechanism, as opposed to a reasoned plan to eg, "save mankind from the scourge of war" (war being an unreasoning instinctive activity).

But you need to be dragged kicking and screaming to implement such a plan, because it opposes your (unthinking) instincts.

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How do we choose anything that is not informed by human instinct and sensibility?

By making conscious choices to do so, eg to "save n mankind from the scorge of war" (eg, under a regime of international law which outlaws war as a means of dispute settlement).

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No. You crapped on about Schweitzer.

Because Schweitzer was a non-orthodox Christian who actually believed in - and practiced - Christ's Great Commandments: "Love God and love one-another".

...the opposite of your "freedom, or death (to those who oppose your ideology) ideation, demanding the slaughter of you, your 'enemy', or often both.

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What you think is a god that has reverence for life, like your erotic obsession with the CCP, maybe for others a disease that needs to be eradicated.

So now you reveal your 'thinking" - much less reasoning - in all its monstrosity; life, and reverence for it, is now a "disease that needs to be eradicated" according to you.

[I have already noted your penchant for dealing with unwanted ideology - unwanted by you - via slaughter, rather than education].

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Given you insinuated a deity into your argument to explain reason, you left reason behind and wafted off into mysticism.

Explained above, with reference to Schweitzer. who was inspired by "Love God and love oneanother" - an example of pure life affriming reason, from the Jew called Chrst, 2000 years ago.

As opposed to the death-affirming, instinct-driven unreason of your "freedom or death" ideation.....

« Last Edit: Nov 28^th, 2023 at 10:24am by thegreatdivide »

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