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How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians? (Read 5338 times)
Gnads
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #135 - Nov 29th, 2023 at 9:04am
 
philperth2010 wrote on Nov 28th, 2023 at 10:31pm:
Gnads wrote on Nov 28th, 2023 at 7:22am:
philperth2010 wrote on Nov 28th, 2023 at 7:04am:
Frank wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 8:02pm:
John Smith wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 7:56pm:
Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 6:34pm:
John Smith wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 5:03pm:
Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 4:53pm:
And of course it's all about Dutton for the left and aok!    Cheesy Roll Eyes



It was HIS laws that were illegal dumbarse.


I don't remember Dutton being around 25 years ago.  Do you?   


Ohh, you read Frank's reply too? Bravo. Now you just have to figure out what it means.
The laws weren't wrong, the high Court is simply enforcing those laws. Dutton was wrong in locking them up indefinitely, in doing so he made up his own laws. . 

The HC said in 2004 that it was OK, THICKO ****Wit.



The legislation that was struck down by the High Court were drafted by then immigration minister Peter Dutton in 2015 Frank!!!

Quote:
The High Court determined last week that Abbott-era powers that permit dual citizens to be stripped of their Australian citizenship, if suspected of engaging in terrorism activity overseas, are unconstitutional.

The citizenship laws were initially drafted by then immigration minister Peter Dutton in 2015 and subsequently amended by him in 2020, whilst he held the home affairs portfolio.


Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://nswcourts.com.au/articles/high-court-strikes-down-duttons-citizenship-ca...


The High Court at the time didn't have a problem with it. Why is that.

Politicians make laws/legislation .... they have to run it by the Govt legal team.

Dutton didn't just put it together off his own bat.


So you don't hold the Minister responsible for legislation he enacted because he had incompetent advice....Why is that???

Huh Huh Huh


It was only enacted after it passed Parliament ..no?

Who said at the time his advice was incompetent?

Why has the High Court taken 8 years since  to come up with this ruling?
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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SadKangaroo
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #136 - Nov 29th, 2023 at 9:56am
 
Gnads wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 9:00am:
SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 28th, 2023 at 4:50pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 28th, 2023 at 4:15pm:
SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 28th, 2023 at 3:45pm:
Seems like they now have every legal right.


They have limited legal rights, not "every" legal right




Technically that's true, but I mean they have every legal right granted to them to be in Australia under the terms of their temporary visa.

They aren't "illegal".

I'm sure Frank will find another reason to continue hating on them.  The "illegal" claim was only ever an excuse and a flimsy one at that.


They have no visas ... temporary or otherwise.


Are we even talking about the same thing?

Around 800 Palestinians and more than 1,700 Israeli citizens have been granted temporary visas.
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Frank
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #137 - Nov 29th, 2023 at 10:15am
 
So, this is a battle about two valid competing priorities. Keeping the community safe versus uphold­ing fundamental constitutional principle. For any government, the political and practical answer will be the same. Between them, many of the detainees released under the recent ruling run the gamut of criminal behaviour: from homicide to rape to child abuse. There is no reason to assume they will not offend again.

The solution is obvious. If their own country will accept them back, deport them. If not, lock them up until some other eccentrically generous nation takes them in. If that never happens, they stay in jail: Quod erat demonstrandum.

It would be hard to find many “ordinary” Australians who would disagree with this logic. But the High Court takes a different, more profound and rather more complex view. Unless penal sanction is the preserve of the courts, politicians will start punishing us. Ministers will put journalists in jail – potentially appealing – and administrative officers (level 4) will confiscate our property.
....
The implications of the court’s decision go much wider than international detainees. There are plenty of laws that lock up the odd monster at executive behest, with minimal judicial involvement. Most are state laws, not federal, but the court has itched to expand its reach. The immediate question is, what can the Albanese government do? The idea it should have had a replacement law in its back pocket is risible. This would have been a virtual admission that the existing law was invalid.

The current regime of ankle bracelets, curfews and leg irons also is dubious. First, it is far less effective than detention. But, even more problematically, parts of the court’s decision may suggest even these restrictions are punishments, also to be struck down.

The task for Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus and his luckless advisers is to attempt to draft a law that keeps dangerous entrants off the streets without outraging the High Court. But because the court has refused to endorse any form of “limbo” detention without a foreseeable end, this will be extremely difficult.

Presumably, Canberra’s legal brainboxes will be playing around with possibilities that are as administratively effective as possible in pushing dangerous foreign nationals towards captivity but involves clear judicial supervision at crucial points in the process.

In the light of the court’s unanimous decision, this is a task from hell. One further problem is that no solution can involve judicial officers in any mere executive process because that too is verboten under the separation of powers. This is the catch-22 of Australian constitutional law.

Several states have managed to create effective “dangerous offenders” legislation, keeping supposed monsters caged, but only under judicial oversight. I remember working on this in Victoria as crown counsel for the Kennett government. It was an exhausting process, balancing community safety with constitutional liberty.

Anthony Albanese will be desperate to find a way through the High Court’s decision that is both practical and passes constitutional examination. If he can, he will squeeze through the opening, bruised but intact.

If he cannot, he has a judicial Christmas present leaving him unwittingly responsible for a politically flammable ripple of nasty offenders through the community.

No one will blame the High Court, everyone will blame him, and it is not something that can be regifted.


Greg Craven is a constitutional lawyer and former vice-chancellor of Australian Catholic University.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #138 - Nov 29th, 2023 at 10:48am
 
Frank wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 10:15am:
So, this is a battle about two valid competing priorities. Keeping the community safe ...


You know that when Australian-born citizens finish serving their time for the crimes they've committed, they're released back into society - yeah?
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Frank
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #139 - Nov 29th, 2023 at 11:30am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 10:48am:
Frank wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 10:15am:
So, this is a battle about two valid competing priorities. Keeping the community safe ...


You know that when Australian-born citizens finish serving their time for the crimes they've committed, they're released back into society - yeah? 

Not if they are subject to preventative detention.  And these illegals are not citizens.
So bugger orf, stupid creep.

Oh, and stop taking everything out of context, ya dirty fapper.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #140 - Nov 29th, 2023 at 11:49am
 
Frank wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 11:30am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 10:48am:
Frank wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 10:15am:
So, this is a battle about two valid competing priorities. Keeping the community safe ...


You know that when Australian-born citizens finish serving their time for the crimes they've committed, they're released back into society - yeah? 

Not if they are subject to preventative detention.  And these illegals are not citizens.
So bugger orf, stupid creep.

Oh, and stop taking everything out of context, ya dirty fapper.


Australian-born citizens, who have finished serving their time for the crimes they've committed, are released back into society.

Murderers, child sex offenders, etc. are released from our prisons every week.
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AusGeoff
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #141 - Nov 29th, 2023 at 1:13pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 28th, 2023 at 10:27am:
AusGeoff wrote on Nov 28th, 2023 at 10:08am:
Would you be happy to have one of these illegals 
stay in your spare bedroom Greg?  Or even
live next door to you?     I'm betting not.

No.  Not sure why you would ask me that.

Well, mainly because you said "nobody in authority
has stated that most of them are convicted criminals"
and... "why some people are running with that lie".

Why then would you refuse to have one of these
people living next door to you Greg?

   NIMBY much?       Wink                                                                                                                                                     i


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Frank
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #142 - Nov 29th, 2023 at 1:15pm
 
In paragraph 63 of the reasons for its ruling, it is revealed an agreed statement of facts between the government and the solicitors for the plaintiff – the child sex abuser known as NZYQ.

The concession given by the government on May 30 this year, was that the plaintiff could not be removed from Australia and there was no prospect of the plaintiff being removed in the foreseeable future.

This admission by Immigration Minister Andrew Giles made the High Court’s decision inevitable.

It effectively handed the issue of indefinite detention to the courts to decide on the basis that the government had conceded that the basis on which it is founded could not be fulfilled in this case.

The government clearly knew it had stuffed up.

In paragraph 66, it is further revealed that on August 29 O’Neill went on a mad rush to try and deport NZYQ by contacting Australia’s closest allies – Five Eyes partners of the US, UK, Canada and New Zealand.

Unsurprisingly, none of them were interested in taking a convicted sex offender. Why would they?

By then it was all too late. The question the government refuses to answer is whether O’Neill knew in the first place or was dispatched to try and clean up Giles’ mess.

The Opposition immigration spokesman Dan Tehan suggests that the admission that NZYQ could never be deported should never have been made in the first place by the government.  It made a rod for its own back.

There can be no doubt that this is a monumental stuff up at a senior Ministerial level.

SIMON BENSON



Another explained
https://theconversation.com/high-court-reasons-on-immigration-ruling-pave-way-fo...




How much more justifiable the voice to parliament and executive would have been!!
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« Last Edit: Nov 29th, 2023 at 1:21pm by Frank »  

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Gnads
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #143 - Nov 29th, 2023 at 7:03pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 9:56am:
Gnads wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 9:00am:
SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 28th, 2023 at 4:50pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 28th, 2023 at 4:15pm:
SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 28th, 2023 at 3:45pm:
Seems like they now have every legal right.


They have limited legal rights, not "every" legal right




Technically that's true, but I mean they have every legal right granted to them to be in Australia under the terms of their temporary visa.

They aren't "illegal".

I'm sure Frank will find another reason to continue hating on them.  The "illegal" claim was only ever an excuse and a flimsy one at that.


They have no visas ... temporary or otherwise.


Are we even talking about the same thing?

Around 800 Palestinians and more than 1,700 Israeli citizens have been granted temporary visas.


So these are the people released from detention by the High Court? Roll Eyes
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Gnads
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #144 - Nov 29th, 2023 at 7:05pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 10:48am:
Frank wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 10:15am:
So, this is a battle about two valid competing priorities. Keeping the community safe ...


You know that when Australian-born citizens finish serving their time for the crimes they've committed, they're released back into society - yeah? 



You know you've been told several times that is irrelevant...yeah?
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Gnads
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #145 - Nov 29th, 2023 at 7:06pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 11:49am:
Frank wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 11:30am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 10:48am:
Frank wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 10:15am:
So, this is a battle about two valid competing priorities. Keeping the community safe ...


You know that when Australian-born citizens finish serving their time for the crimes they've committed, they're released back into society - yeah? 

Not if they are subject to preventative detention.  And these illegals are not citizens.
So bugger orf, stupid creep.

Oh, and stop taking everything out of context, ya dirty fapper.


Australian-born citizens, who have finished serving their time for the crimes they've committed, are released back into society.

Murderers, child sex offenders, etc. are released from our prisons every week.


Irrelevant.. Peccarwood.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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greggerypeccary
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #146 - Nov 29th, 2023 at 7:17pm
 
Gnads wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 7:06pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 11:49am:
Frank wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 11:30am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 10:48am:
Frank wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 10:15am:
So, this is a battle about two valid competing priorities. Keeping the community safe ...


You know that when Australian-born citizens finish serving their time for the crimes they've committed, they're released back into society - yeah? 

Not if they are subject to preventative detention.  And these illegals are not citizens.
So bugger orf, stupid creep.

Oh, and stop taking everything out of context, ya dirty fapper.


Australian-born citizens, who have finished serving their time for the crimes they've committed, are released back into society.

Murderers, child sex offenders, etc. are released from our prisons every week.


Irrelevant.. Peccarwood.


It's entirely relevant.

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greggerypeccary
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #147 - Nov 29th, 2023 at 7:19pm
 
AusGeoff wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 1:13pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 28th, 2023 at 10:27am:
AusGeoff wrote on Nov 28th, 2023 at 10:08am:
Would you be happy to have one of these illegals 
stay in your spare bedroom Greg?  Or even
live next door to you?     I'm betting not.

No.  Not sure why you would ask me that.

Well, mainly because you said "nobody in authority
has stated that most of them are convicted criminals"
and... "why some people are running with that lie".

Why then would you refuse to have one of these
people living next door to you Greg?

   NIMBY much?       Wink                                                                                                                                                    


Your reply makes no sense.

I was merely stating a fact: nobody in authority
has stated that most of them are convicted criminals.

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Frank
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #148 - Nov 29th, 2023 at 8:43pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 11:49am:
Frank wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 11:30am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 10:48am:
Frank wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 10:15am:
So, this is a battle about two valid competing priorities. Keeping the community safe ...


You know that when Australian-born citizens finish serving their time for the crimes they've committed, they're released back into society - yeah? 

Not if they are subject to preventative detention.  And these illegals are not citizens.
So bugger orf, stupid creep.

Oh, and stop taking everything out of context, ya dirty fapper.


Australian-born citizens, who have finished serving their time for the crimes they've committed, are released back into society.

Murderers, child sex offenders, etc. are released from our prisons every week.

These are not citizens. They are not even visa holders.
They are scum nobody wants.

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John Smith
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #149 - Nov 29th, 2023 at 9:09pm
 
Frank wrote on Nov 29th, 2023 at 8:43pm:
These are not citizens.



Neither are you  Roll Eyes
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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