Australian Politics Forum - How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?

philperth2010

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #15 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:09pm

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 1:52pm:

Immigration Minister Andrew Giles said the released foreigners included three murderers and several sex offenders. He offered to give deputy opposition leader Sussan Ley a breakdown later of how many had been convicted of sex crimes.

https://apnews.com/article/australia-indefinite-detention-murderers-26c065763b71...

Anyone who supports this, even by way of ignoring it, is inasne.

This was a decision by the High Court of Australia not politicians....The legislation introduced by Peter Dutton was flawed and struck down by the High Court of Australia as unconstitutional....Why is the rule of law and seperation of powers so hard for some people to understand???

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 136639 Gender:	Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians? Reply #16 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:13pm Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 12:39pm: Many have been convicted by the courts of serious crimes including child rape and murder. How many? Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 12:39pm: Most are convicted criminals. I've not seen that reported anywhere. Who told you that?
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greggerypeccary

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #17 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:19pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:13pm:

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 12:39pm:

Many have been convicted by the courts of serious crimes including child rape and murder.

How many?

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 12:39pm:

Most are convicted criminals.

I've not seen that reported anywhere.

Who told you that?

From all of the reports I've read, none have said how many of the asylum seekers are convicted or wanted criminals.

Certainly no politician or anyone else involved has said that most of them are criminals.

I've not seen any reports claiming that they broke out of prison in their home country, so it can probably be assumed that they served their time back home.

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philperth2010

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #18 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:21pm

Gnads wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 1:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 10:09am:

Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 9:57am:

So they get monitored, and they get charged if they breach the rules ... but how long will the monitoring go on for?

Most of them are not criminals we are told, so the majority will be given the opportunity to apply for citizenship after the next election

The few remaining, criminals, will be strictly monitored until the next election, after which, the Libs and Labs will come to an agreement that will allow those criminals to work, but with their ankle monitors still on. Then after two years of working and being monitored during that time, they will have their ankle monitors removed and allowed to blend into the community. The dust would have settled, and our short memories and our abundance of humanitarian tolerance will take over, negating any thoughts that those criminals could possibly commit any more crimes

My conscience is clear, I've never voted for the half-brained ALP and Coalition, and I'm not about to start now

Who'd vote for that big mouth Clare O'Neil? ... egotistical generic Clare! ... "I'll keep you safe, I'll keep you safe" - sure, keep the criminals safe before anyone else

Why would you want politicians to decide someone's guilt without a trial and decide the punishment....There is nowhere to send these people once they are rejected by a third country....What is needed is practicle solutions that do not punish innocent people???

Roll Eyes

You send them back to the airport in their country of origin & then it's that countries problem not ours.

And I didn't say all of them - but there are dozens in that 141 who are convicted criminals.

Quote:

Constitutional law expert and UNSW Professor George Williams said it was “unusual” for the court to leave a government “flying blind” by delivering a verbal verdict that had an immediate effect, potentially months in advance of providing the reasoning behind the decision so that Labor might legislate to mitigate the fallout from the ruling.

It’s important to acknowledge the court left Labor in this difficult position, because in many ways it has left the government fighting with one hand behind its back.

Now why do you think the High Court would do something like that?

They are not a "law unto themselves". They do not ... or they're not supposed to "run the country".

And a court should also be concerned that their decisions do not adversely affect Australian citizens.

And that's what they've done by their actions.

You do understand that every criminal accept those who commit the most serious crimes cannot be held indefinatly with no adverse judgement found against them....Even if these people are convicted of rape or other serious crimes by an Australia court there would be a release date set by the court....There are also conventions and treaties Australia has ratified that prevent our Government from returning asylum seekers to a country where they face persecution....I understand people's concerns about criminals being released into the community which is why new legislation needs to be enacted to address the issues raised by the High Court....Peter Dutton flubbed it again!!!

Roll Eyes

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greggerypeccary

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #19 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:26pm

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:21pm:

Gnads wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 1:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 10:09am:

Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 9:57am:

So they get monitored, and they get charged if they breach the rules ... but how long will the monitoring go on for?

Most of them are not criminals we are told, so the majority will be given the opportunity to apply for citizenship after the next election

The few remaining, criminals, will be strictly monitored until the next election, after which, the Libs and Labs will come to an agreement that will allow those criminals to work, but with their ankle monitors still on. Then after two years of working and being monitored during that time, they will have their ankle monitors removed and allowed to blend into the community. The dust would have settled, and our short memories and our abundance of humanitarian tolerance will take over, negating any thoughts that those criminals could possibly commit any more crimes

My conscience is clear, I've never voted for the half-brained ALP and Coalition, and I'm not about to start now

Who'd vote for that big mouth Clare O'Neil? ... egotistical generic Clare! ... "I'll keep you safe, I'll keep you safe" - sure, keep the criminals safe before anyone else

Why would you want politicians to decide someone's guilt without a trial and decide the punishment....There is nowhere to send these people once they are rejected by a third country....What is needed is practicle solutions that do not punish innocent people???

Roll Eyes

You send them back to the airport in their country of origin & then it's that countries problem not ours.

And I didn't say all of them - but there are dozens in that 141 who are convicted criminals.

Quote:

Constitutional law expert and UNSW Professor George Williams said it was “unusual” for the court to leave a government “flying blind” by delivering a verbal verdict that had an immediate effect, potentially months in advance of providing the reasoning behind the decision so that Labor might legislate to mitigate the fallout from the ruling.

It’s important to acknowledge the court left Labor in this difficult position, because in many ways it has left the government fighting with one hand behind its back.

Now why do you think the High Court would do something like that?

They are not a "law unto themselves". They do not ... or they're not supposed to "run the country".

And a court should also be concerned that their decisions do not adversely affect Australian citizens.

And that's what they've done by their actions.

You do understand that every criminal accept those who commit the most serious crimes cannot be held indefinatly with no adverse judgement found against them....Even if these people are convicted of rape or other serious crimes by an Australia court there would be a release date set by the court....There are also conventions and treaties Australia has ratified that prevent our Government from returning asylum seekers to a country where they face persecution....I understand people's concerns about criminals being released into the community which is why new legislation needs to beenacted to address the issues raised by the High Court....PeterDutton flubbed it again!!!

I understand those concerns too, however, convicted Australian criminals are released back into society every day.

Once they've completed their sentences, they are set free.

So, we have Australian-born citizens walking around our streets right now who have been convicted of rape, murder, kidnapping, child abuse, etc.

That's the way it's always been.

Some of these asylum seekers have been convicted of crimes in the past and have obviously served their sentences in their home countries.

We don't know how many though - is it 4 or is it 100?

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Bobby.

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #20 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:37pm

I think we should unsign the convention and protocol below.
It costs too much money - in the 10s of $billions and also costs lives.

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_...

Australia is a party to the 1951 Convention relating to the Status of Refugees and its 1967 Protocol, which defines a refugee as a person who has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion.

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philperth2010

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #21 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:40pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:26pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:21pm:

Gnads wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 1:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 10:09am:

Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 9:57am:

So they get monitored, and they get charged if they breach the rules ... but how long will the monitoring go on for?

Most of them are not criminals we are told, so the majority will be given the opportunity to apply for citizenship after the next election

The few remaining, criminals, will be strictly monitored until the next election, after which, the Libs and Labs will come to an agreement that will allow those criminals to work, but with their ankle monitors still on. Then after two years of working and being monitored during that time, they will have their ankle monitors removed and allowed to blend into the community. The dust would have settled, and our short memories and our abundance of humanitarian tolerance will take over, negating any thoughts that those criminals could possibly commit any more crimes

My conscience is clear, I've never voted for the half-brained ALP and Coalition, and I'm not about to start now

Who'd vote for that big mouth Clare O'Neil? ... egotistical generic Clare! ... "I'll keep you safe, I'll keep you safe" - sure, keep the criminals safe before anyone else

Why would you want politicians to decide someone's guilt without a trial and decide the punishment....There is nowhere to send these people once they are rejected by a third country....What is needed is practicle solutions that do not punish innocent people???

Roll Eyes

You send them back to the airport in their country of origin & then it's that countries problem not ours.

And I didn't say all of them - but there are dozens in that 141 who are convicted criminals.

Quote:

Constitutional law expert and UNSW Professor George Williams said it was “unusual” for the court to leave a government “flying blind” by delivering a verbal verdict that had an immediate effect, potentially months in advance of providing the reasoning behind the decision so that Labor might legislate to mitigate the fallout from the ruling.

It’s important to acknowledge the court left Labor in this difficult position, because in many ways it has left the government fighting with one hand behind its back.

Now why do you think the High Court would do something like that?

They are not a "law unto themselves". They do not ... or they're not supposed to "run the country".

And a court should also be concerned that their decisions do not adversely affect Australian citizens.

And that's what they've done by their actions.

You do understand that every criminal accept those who commit the most serious crimes cannot be held indefinatly with no adverse judgement found against them....Even if these people are convicted of rape or other serious crimes by an Australia court there would be a release date set by the court....There are also conventions and treaties Australia has ratified that prevent our Government from returning asylum seekers to a country where they face persecution....I understand people's concerns about criminals being released into the community which is why new legislation needs to beenacted to address the issues raised by the High Court....PeterDutton flubbed it again!!!

I understand those concerns too, however, convicted Australian criminals are released back into society every day.

Once they've completed their sentences, they are set free.

So, we have Australian-born citizens walking around our streets right now who have been convicted of rape, murder, kidnapping, child abuse, etc.

That's the way it's always been.

Some of these asylum seekers have been convicted of crimes in the past and have obviously served their sentences in their home countries.

We don't know how many though - is it 4 or is it 100?

I have already explained this Greg....Although some people seam to think the law does not matter when it concerns asylum seekers....The High Court is not listening to their raving Greg and they cannot understand why???

Roll Eyes

Under a government which imprisons unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison.
Henry David Thoreau (1817 - 1862), Civil Disobedience, 1849

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Bobby.

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #22 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:45pm

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:40pm:

I have already explained this Greg....Although some people seam to think the law does not matter when it concerns asylum seekers....The High Court is not listening to their raving Greg and they cannot understand why???

Roll Eyes

Under a government which imprisons unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison.
Henry David Thoreau (1817 - 1862), Civil Disobedience, 1849

Phil - in this case you're saying it's OK for our country to
be invaded by murderers, rapists, pedophiles and terrorists?

We just have to let them out on our streets?

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Aussie

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #23 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:52pm

Gnads wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 9:27am:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 9:20am:

Gnads wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 7:01am:

Courier Mail today - paywalled.

Quote:

$255M TO FEEL SAFE
TEAMS TO MONITOR VIOLENT ASYLUM SEEKERS
CLARE ARMSTRONG
Police and border agents monitoring convicted criminals released from immigration detention will get $255m to bolster tracking efforts and prosecute those who breach sweeping emergency laws.

At least 141 foreigners, including murderers, rapists and child sex offenders, have been set free in the
community since the High Court ruled against their indefinite detention on November 8.

The federal funding package will be announced by the Albanese government today.

Home Affairs Minister Clare O’Neil said agencies would be able to dedicate time and resources to manage the cohort.

“We have only one priority and that is protecting the safety of the community within the limits of the law,” she said.

Police and border agents monitoring convicted criminals released from immigration detention will get $255m to bolster tracking efforts and prosecute any individuals who breach sweeping emergency laws.

At least 141 foreigners, including murderers, rapists and child sex offenders, have been set free in the community since the High Court ruled against their indefinite detention on November 8.

The federal funding package will be announced by the Albanese government on Monday and includes a cash injection for the joint Australian Federal Police (AFP) and Australian Border Force (ABF) Operation AEGIS established by the Department of Home Affairs to respond to the court decision.

What a ridiculous outcome from the ruling by our woke wanker High Court.

I agree they should be held in detention indefinitely ..... they should have been deported long ago.

Next thing they'll be finding all the murderers, rapists & child sex offenders in our prison system are there illegally & order their release.

This country is going to shyte in a hand basket.

So you would allow the Government of the day to decide the guilt and punishment of individuals instead of the courts....It was legislation introduced by Peter Dutton whilst he was Home Affairs Minister that was unconstitutional and forced the court to release the detainees....Be careful what you wish for???

Roll Eyes

https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/11/23/nzyq-migration-amendments-unconstitutional/

They are not Australian citizens... the do not fit the criteria for granting asylum because they are known criminals ....meaning they are not of good character...

they should be deported ... end of.

Why on earth would you condone the release of foreign criminals into our society?

Some were, including the specific Plaintiff in the High Court action. Dutton gave himself power to remove that citizenshio and bung people in detention, both decisions being held to be unconstitutional by the High Court.

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philperth2010

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #24 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:54pm

Bobby. wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:45pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:40pm:

I have already explained this Greg....Although some people seam to think the law does not matter when it concerns asylum seekers....The High Court is not listening to their raving Greg and they cannot understand why???

Roll Eyes

Under a government which imprisons unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison.
Henry David Thoreau (1817 - 1862), Civil Disobedience, 1849

Phil - in this case you're saying it's OK for our country to
be invaded by murderers, rapists, pedophiles and terrorists?

We just have to let them out on our streets?

I am not saying anything of the sort Bobby....What are you going to do about this decision by the High Court Bobby....Are you going to continue blaming other posters on a political forum for this High Court decision or blame Peter Dutton who stuffed up the legislation....Why are trying to push the blame onto me for Peter Dutton's failure???

Huh

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philperth2010

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #25 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:56pm

Aussie wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:52pm:

Gnads wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 9:27am:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 9:20am:

Gnads wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 7:01am:

Courier Mail today - paywalled.

Quote:

$255M TO FEEL SAFE
TEAMS TO MONITOR VIOLENT ASYLUM SEEKERS
CLARE ARMSTRONG
Police and border agents monitoring convicted criminals released from immigration detention will get $255m to bolster tracking efforts and prosecute those who breach sweeping emergency laws.

At least 141 foreigners, including murderers, rapists and child sex offenders, have been set free in the
community since the High Court ruled against their indefinite detention on November 8.

The federal funding package will be announced by the Albanese government today.

Home Affairs Minister Clare O’Neil said agencies would be able to dedicate time and resources to manage the cohort.

“We have only one priority and that is protecting the safety of the community within the limits of the law,” she said.

Police and border agents monitoring convicted criminals released from immigration detention will get $255m to bolster tracking efforts and prosecute any individuals who breach sweeping emergency laws.

At least 141 foreigners, including murderers, rapists and child sex offenders, have been set free in the community since the High Court ruled against their indefinite detention on November 8.

The federal funding package will be announced by the Albanese government on Monday and includes a cash injection for the joint Australian Federal Police (AFP) and Australian Border Force (ABF) Operation AEGIS established by the Department of Home Affairs to respond to the court decision.

What a ridiculous outcome from the ruling by our woke wanker High Court.

I agree they should be held in detention indefinitely ..... they should have been deported long ago.

Next thing they'll be finding all the murderers, rapists & child sex offenders in our prison system are there illegally & order their release.

This country is going to shyte in a hand basket.

So you would allow the Government of the day to decide the guilt and punishment of individuals instead of the courts....It was legislation introduced by Peter Dutton whilst he was Home Affairs Minister that was unconstitutional and forced the court to release the detainees....Be careful what you wish for???

Roll Eyes

https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/11/23/nzyq-migration-amendments-unconstitutional/

They are not Australian citizens... the do not fit the criteria for granting asylum because they are known criminals ....meaning they are not of good character...

they should be deported ... end of.

Why on earth would you condone the release of foreign criminals into our society?

Some were, including the specific Plaintiff in the High Court action. Dutton gave himself power to remove that citizenshio and bung people in detention, both decisions being held to be unconstitutional by the High Court.

Too complicated for the right wing nut jobs on here Aussie....Can you type in brail so they can understand their stupidity???

Wink

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Bobby.

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #26 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 3:01pm

Aussie wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:52pm:

Some were, including the specific Plaintiff in the High Court action. Dutton gave himself power to remove that citizenshio and bung people in detention, both decisions being held to be unconstitutional by the High Court.

Hi Aussie,
so the Constitution applies to: murderers, rapists, pedophiles and terrorists -
who are not Australian citizens and who invaded our country?

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Aussie

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #27 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 3:04pm

Bobby. wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 3:01pm:

Aussie wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:52pm:

Some were, including the specific Plaintiff in the High Court action. Dutton gave himself power to remove that citizenshio and bung people in detention, both decisions being held to be unconstitutional by the High Court.

Hi Aussie,
so the Constitution applies to: murderers, rapists, pedophiles and terrorists -
who are not Australian citizens and who invaded our country?

Huh?

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philperth2010

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #28 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 3:09pm

Aussie wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 3:04pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 3:01pm:

Aussie wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:52pm:

Some were, including the specific Plaintiff in the High Court action. Dutton gave himself power to remove that citizenshio and bung people in detention, both decisions being held to be unconstitutional by the High Court.

Hi Aussie,
so the Constitution applies to: murderers, rapists, pedophiles and terrorists -
who are not Australian citizens and who invaded our country?

Huh?

Bobby needs to explain that one Aussie....This should be interesting???

Huh

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greggerypeccary

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #29 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 3:28pm

Bobby. wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:45pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:40pm:

I have already explained this Greg....Although some people seam to think the law does not matter when it concerns asylum seekers....The High Court is not listening to their raving Greg and they cannot understand why???

Roll Eyes

Under a government which imprisons unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison.
Henry David Thoreau (1817 - 1862), Civil Disobedience, 1849

Phil - in this case you're saying it's OK for our country to
be invaded by murderers, rapists, pedophiles and terrorists?

We just have to let them out on our streets?

Bobby, please concentrate.

What happens to Australian-born citizens who have completed their prison sentences for crimes such as murder, rape, terrorism, and child sexual assault?

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