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How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians? (Read 5556 times)
greggerypeccary
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #30 - Nov 27th, 2023 at 3:30pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 2:26pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 2:21pm:
Gnads wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 1:02pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 10:09am:
Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 9:57am:
So they get monitored, and they get charged if they breach the rules ... but how long will the monitoring go on for?

Most of them are not criminals we are told, so the majority will be given the opportunity to apply for citizenship after the next election

The few remaining, criminals, will be strictly monitored until the next election, after which, the Libs and Labs will come to an agreement that will allow those criminals to work, but with their ankle monitors still on. Then after two years of working and being monitored during that time, they will have their ankle monitors removed and allowed to blend into the community. The dust would have settled, and our short memories and our abundance of humanitarian tolerance will take over, negating any thoughts that those criminals could possibly commit any more crimes

My conscience is clear, I've never voted for the half-brained ALP and Coalition, and I'm not about to start now

Who'd vote for that big mouth Clare O'Neil? ... egotistical generic Clare! ... "I'll keep you safe, I'll keep you safe" - sure, keep the criminals safe before anyone else







Why would you want politicians to decide someone's guilt without a trial and decide the punishment....There is nowhere to send these people once they are rejected by a third country....What is needed is practicle solutions that do not punish innocent people???

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



You send them back to the airport in their country of origin & then it's that countries problem not ours.

And I didn't say all of them - but there are dozens in that 141 who are convicted criminals.

Quote:
Constitutional law expert and UNSW Professor George Williams said it was “unusual” for the court to leave a government “flying blind” by delivering a verbal verdict that had an immediate effect, potentially months in advance of providing the reasoning behind the decision so that Labor might legislate to mitigate the fallout from the ruling.

It’s important to acknowledge the court left Labor in this difficult position, because in many ways it has left the government fighting with one hand behind its back.


Now why do you think the High Court would do something like that?

They are not a "law unto themselves". They do not ... or they're not supposed to "run the country".

And a court should also be concerned that their decisions do not adversely affect Australian citizens.

And that's what they've done by their actions.


You do understand that every criminal accept those who commit the most serious crimes cannot be held indefinatly with no adverse judgement found against them....Even if these people are convicted of rape or other serious crimes by an Australia court there would be a release date set by the court....There are also conventions and treaties Australia has ratified that prevent our Government from returning asylum seekers to a country where they face persecution....I understand people's concerns about criminals being released into the community which is why new legislation needs to beenacted to address the issues raised by the High Court....PeterDutton flubbed it again!!!




I understand those concerns too, however, convicted Australian criminals are released back into society every day.

Once they've completed their sentences, they are set free.

So, we have Australian-born citizens walking around our streets right now who have been convicted of rape, murder, kidnapping, child abuse, etc.

That's the way it's always been.

Some of these asylum seekers have been convicted of crimes in the past and have obviously served their sentences in their home countries.

We don't know how many though - is it 4 or is it 100?



Still waiting for an answer to this question.

Anyone know?
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greggerypeccary
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #31 - Nov 27th, 2023 at 3:31pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 2:45pm:
Phil - in this case you're saying it's OK for our country to
be invaded by murderers, rapists, pedophiles and terrorists?

We just have to let them out on our streets?


What happens to Australian-born citizens who have completed their prison sentences for crimes such as murder, rape, terrorism, and child sexual assault?

Are they:

a) let out on our streets?, or

b) let out on our streets?

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John Smith
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #32 - Nov 27th, 2023 at 3:32pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 2:13pm:
Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 12:39pm:
Many have been convicted by the courts of serious crimes including child rape and murder. 

How many?

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 12:39pm:
Most are convicted criminals.  

I've not seen that reported anywhere.

Who told you that?


they made it up Cheesy
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Bobby.
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #33 - Nov 27th, 2023 at 3:33pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 3:28pm:
Bobby. wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 2:45pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 2:40pm:
I have already explained this Greg....Although some people seam to think the law does not matter when it concerns asylum seekers....The High Court is not listening to their raving Greg and they cannot understand why???

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Under a government which imprisons unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison.
Henry David Thoreau (1817 - 1862), Civil Disobedience, 1849



Phil - in this case you're saying it's OK for our country to
be invaded by murderers, rapists, pedophiles and terrorists?

We just have to let them out on our streets?


Bobby, please concentrate.

What happens to Australian-born citizens who have completed their prison sentences for crimes such as murder, rape, terrorism, and child sexual assault?




We let them out on our streets so they can do it again.
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Bobby.
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #34 - Nov 27th, 2023 at 3:34pm
 
Aussie wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 3:04pm:
Bobby. wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 3:01pm:
Aussie wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 2:52pm:
Some were, including the specific Plaintiff in the High Court action.  Dutton gave himself power to remove that citizenshio and bung people in detention, both decisions being held to be unconstitutional by the High Court.



Hi Aussie,
so the Constitution applies to: murderers, rapists, pedophiles and terrorists -
who are not Australian citizens and who invaded our country?


Huh?



Sorry - I don't think I could explain it more clearly than that.
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John Smith
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #35 - Nov 27th, 2023 at 3:35pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 2:40pm:
Although some people seam to think the law does not matter when it concerns asylum seekers..


that sort of stupidity is the exact reason why were now in this position. If Mr Potato head had applied the law as it stood, instead of trying to make it up, we would never have been in this mess
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greggerypeccary
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #36 - Nov 27th, 2023 at 3:43pm
 
John Smith wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 3:32pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 2:13pm:
Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 12:39pm:
Many have been convicted by the courts of serious crimes including child rape and murder. 

How many?

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 12:39pm:
Most are convicted criminals.  

I've not seen that reported anywhere.

Who told you that?


they made it up Cheesy


Indeed.  A complete fabrication.

Why do they do that?   Roll Eyes
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philperth2010
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #37 - Nov 27th, 2023 at 4:05pm
 
John Smith wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 3:35pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 2:40pm:
Although some people seam to think the law does not matter when it concerns asylum seekers..


that sort of stupidity is the exact reason why were now in this position. If Mr Potato head had applied the law as it stood, instead of trying to make it up, we would never have been in this mess


Exactly right....We could have processed their assylum claims instead of locking them up indefinitely....Now Dutton is responsible for a flood of aslum seekers entering the country with the stroke of a pen....Dutton is in denial!!!

Quote:
WHAT WAS CLAIMED
A total of 105,000 asylum seekers have entered Australia since Labor took government in May 2022.

OUR VERDICT
False. The figure relates to people with failed or pending asylum applications. Most entered Australia under the previous coalition government.


Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/dutton-gets-it-wrong-with-labor-asylum-seeker-c...




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Frank
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #38 - Nov 27th, 2023 at 4:48pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 4:05pm:
John Smith wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 3:35pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 2:40pm:
Although some people seam to think the law does not matter when it concerns asylum seekers..


that sort of stupidity is the exact reason why were now in this position. If Mr Potato head had applied the law as it stood, instead of trying to make it up, we would never have been in this mess


Exactly right....We could have processed their assylum claims instead of locking them up indefinitely....Now Dutton is responsible for a flood of aslum seekers entering the country with the stroke of a pen....Dutton is in denial!!!

Quote:
WHAT WAS CLAIMED
A total of 105,000 asylum seekers have entered Australia since Labor took government in May 2022.

OUR VERDICT
False. The figure relates to people with failed or pending asylum applications. Most entered Australia under the previous coalition government.


Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/dutton-gets-it-wrong-with-labor-asylum-seeker-c...





Their asylum claims HAVE BEEN processed and rejected. They cannot be deported and are not eligible for protection= they are in the country illegally.
That's why they were locked up and the previous HC decision about 20 years ago endorsed the detention of illegal queue jumpers like these.
This HC overturned the previous decision.

In 2004, the High Court in the case of Al-Kateb held that it was constitutionally permissible to detain people indefinitely. The High Court found that the Migration Act permitted the indefinite detention of a stateless Palestinian man, and that such detention did not breach the separation of powers in the Constitution. Because Al-Kateb was a stateless Palestinian, there was no country which he could be returned to, and thus was stateless. As the Government refused to grant him a visa, the High Court interpreted the Migration Act as authorising indefinite detention, even in cases where removal was not possible. Unfortunately, many other people remain detained today with very similar cases. 

The decision in the Al-Kateb case has resulted in tens of thousands of people being indefinitely detained across Australia, including thousands of children over the past 20 years
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #39 - Nov 27th, 2023 at 4:53pm
 
And of course it's all about Dutton for the left and aok!    Cheesy Roll Eyes
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #40 - Nov 27th, 2023 at 4:57pm
 
We ought to lock up the Libs and Labs indefinitely



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Frank
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #41 - Nov 27th, 2023 at 5:01pm
 
Immigration will be high on the agenda at the next election, whether our political class wants to discuss it or not. The consequences of high immigration numbers are felt most in the middle and outer suburbs, where the next election will be decided. This is where people are being sledgehammered by rising interest rates, the Reserve Bank’s response to inflation, which remains stubbornly high in no small measure because of migration.

Without immigration Australia would be in a technical recession. The decline in productivity would be taking its toll. Bottlenecks would have eased and inflation would be receding. With the size of the immigration program, the last thing we needed was the return of concerns about border control. Yet its mishandling of the High Court’s decision to release illegal migrants with serious criminal records from indefinite detention achieved just that.

The decision to issue 860 temporary visas to Palestinians since October 7 hardly helps Labor’s case. It finds itself wedged between the legitimate concerns of Australians and the elevated ideals of the progressive left.

The government is trying hard to portray the spike in immigration as a post-pandemic surge. It pains to point out that numbers will return to normal, whatever normal might be, in the coming years. Yet the average cap of 227,000 migrants in the 13 years before Covid was significantly higher than the previous 10-year average of 97,000 under John Howard. It was markedly higher than the average for developed countries, including Sweden and Germany, where the scale of immigration has seriously damaged the social fabric.
...
The holes in Treasury’s crude, inflated expectations of the benefits of migration are large enough to be seen from space. Not all migrants are skilled and few are primed to earn significant salaries the moment they step off the plane.

A new set of data on migrant employment, compiled by the Australian Bureau of Statistics, offers a more realistic picture of what happens in the real world as opposed to the world inhabited by the Treasury. Migrants in 2019-20 comprised 29.8 per cent of the population but held down just 26.3 per cent of all jobs. The median annual personal income for migrants was $45,351 in 2019-20, compared with $52,338 for the general population.

There is massive disparity between the annual income of permanent, skilled visa holders ($79,300) and those on temporary visas ($34,600) and temporary student visas ($20,400), whose contribution to tax revenue is low or non-existent.

Student visas, with their associated working rights, account for much of the growth in immigration in the past 15 years. It has had a dramatic impact on campus culture and the quality of university education. The proportion of overseas students at Group of Eight universities has risen from 32 per cent to 38 per cent since Covid. A recent study by Navitas predicts 50 per cent of students will come from overseas by the end of the decade.

Sooner or later, governments and university authorities must confront the degrading effects of uncapped overseas enrolments. Any attempt to reduce these numbers to more sensible levels will face strong opposition from the universities and, by extension, the inner-metropolitan elites with their starry-eyed commitment to a big Australia, rich in diversity and social justice.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/dutton-cant-baulk-at-chance-to-hit-a...

Australia's skilled migrants:
https://twitter.com/GoldingBF/status/1728473749505089695

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John Smith
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #42 - Nov 27th, 2023 at 5:03pm
 
Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 4:53pm:
And of course it's all about Dutton for the left and aok!    Cheesy Roll Eyes



It was HIS laws that were illegal dumbarse.
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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greggerypeccary
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #43 - Nov 27th, 2023 at 5:14pm
 
Frank wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 4:48pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 4:05pm:
John Smith wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 3:35pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 2:40pm:
Although some people seam to think the law does not matter when it concerns asylum seekers..


that sort of stupidity is the exact reason why were now in this position. If Mr Potato head had applied the law as it stood, instead of trying to make it up, we would never have been in this mess


Exactly right....We could have processed their assylum claims instead of locking them up indefinitely....Now Dutton is responsible for a flood of aslum seekers entering the country with the stroke of a pen....Dutton is in denial!!!

Quote:
WHAT WAS CLAIMED
A total of 105,000 asylum seekers have entered Australia since Labor took government in May 2022.

OUR VERDICT
False. The figure relates to people with failed or pending asylum applications. Most entered Australia under the previous coalition government.


Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/dutton-gets-it-wrong-with-labor-asylum-seeker-c...





Their asylum claims HAVE BEEN processed and rejected. They cannot be deported and are not eligible for protection= they are in the country illegally.
That's why they were locked up ...


No.  They haven't broken any laws by a) claiming asylum or b) failing in that bid.

They are locked up because Australian law requires that a person should be detained until they are granted a visa or leave the country.

They are not charged with any offence.
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Frank
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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #44 - Nov 27th, 2023 at 5:17pm
 
John Smith wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 5:03pm:
Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27th, 2023 at 4:53pm:
And of course it's all about Dutton for the left and aok!    Cheesy Roll Eyes



It was HIS laws that were illegal dumbarse.

It has been law for 25 years.  The High Court confirmed the validity of section 501 of the migration act in 2004.



The character test explained
The Department of Home Affairs may refuse or cancel a visa if the visa applicant/holder does not pass the character test.  The Minister for Home Affairs, the Minister for Immigration Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs or one of their delegates, can make this decision. 

A person whose visa has been refused or cancelled by a delegate under section 501 can apply to the AAT to have this decision changed.  The Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT) cannot review decisions made by the Minister personally, only decisions made by delegates.

Section 501 of the Migration Act 1958 lists a variety of reasons why someone may not pass the character test. Subsection(6) of section 501 has the full list of reasons, but examples include:

- because the person has a substantial criminal record
- because the person may represent a danger to the Australian community
- because the Minister is satisfied the person is not of good character due to their past and present criminal or general conduct.

A person whose visa has been refused or cancelled by a delegate under section 501 can apply to the AAT to have this decision changed.

Section 501(3A) states that a visa must be cancelled when the visa holder has been sentenced to 12 months or more imprisonment, or has been found guilty of a sexually based crime involving a child. The visa holder must also be serving a full-time custodial sentence.  This is called a mandatory cancellation.

A mandatory cancellation may be revoked by a delegate of the Minister or the Administrative Appeals Tribunal if they are satisfied the person does in fact pass the character test or where there is another reason for revocation.  If a mandatory cancellation is revoked by a delegate or the Tribunal, the person whose visa was cancelled will get their visa back.  The Minister has the power to overturn this decision.

Section 501 provides further guidance about the application of the character test, including how to decide whether a person has a substantial criminal record. Further, a Ministerial Direction issued by the Minister for Immigration Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs guides any decision maker, including the AAT, when considering whether to refuse or cancel a visa where the applicant does not pass the character test.
https://www.aat.gov.au/about-the-aat/learn-more/the-character-test-explained

The High Court has NOT explained the legal basis of its decision to invalidate section 501, re the Minister's ability to cancel/refuse a visa for bad characters.

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