Australian Politics Forum - How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?

JC Denton

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #45 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 5:26pm

all this endless talk and squabbling and emotional and social energy invested in something we do not even need to have in the first place:

a migration program

amazing that people think that this is all worth it lol

no quantity of immigrants is worth it no matter who they are

and letting in a few inevitably leads to a hundred thousand more

just end all of this now population growth is not needed anyway

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Frank

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #46 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 5:28pm

JC Denton wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 5:26pm:

all this endless talk and squabbling and emotional and social energy invested in something we do not even need to have in the first place:

a migration program

amazing that people think that this is all worth it lol

Immigration will be high on the agenda at the next election, whether our political class wants to discuss it or not. The consequences of high immigration numbers are felt most in the middle and outer suburbs, where the next election will be decided. This is where people are being sledgehammered by rising interest rates, the Reserve Bank’s response to inflation, which remains stubbornly high in no small measure because of migration.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 136632 Gender:	Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians? Reply #47 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 5:30pm JC Denton wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 5:26pm: all this endless talk and squabbling and emotional and social energy invested in something we do not even need to have in the first place: a migration program Do you like capitalism?
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JC Denton Gold Member Offline Posts: 5470 Gender:	Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians? Reply #48 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 5:33pm societies with immigration, let alone high levels of immigration have to deal with the infinite number of complexities and difficulties that causes societies with no immigration do not its a clear choice but MUH AGING POPULATION (would happen anyway stfu) etc etc etc
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JC Denton

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #49 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 5:33pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 5:30pm:

JC Denton wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 5:26pm:

all this endless talk and squabbling and emotional and social energy invested in something we do not even need to have in the first place:

a migration program

Do you like capitalism?

no

infinite growth in a finite world is not possible

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greggerypeccary

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #50 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 5:35pm

JC Denton wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 5:33pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 5:30pm:

JC Denton wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 5:26pm:

all this endless talk and squabbling and emotional and social energy invested in something we do not even need to have in the first place:

a migration program

Do you like capitalism?

no

infinite growth in a finite world is not possible

Ah, we're on the same page then.

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Black Orchid Gold Member Offline Posts: 5808 Gender:	Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians? Reply #51 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 6:34pm John Smith wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 5:03pm: Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 4:53pm: And of course it's all about Dutton for the left and aok! It was HIS laws that were illegal dumbarse. I don't remember Dutton being around 25 years ago. Do you?
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greggerypeccary

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #52 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 6:37pm

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 6:34pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 5:03pm:

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 4:53pm:

And of course it's all about Dutton for the left and aok! Cheesy

It was HIS laws that were illegal dumbarse.

I don't remember Dutton being around 25 years ago. Do you?

Is it true that 25 years ago, as a police officer, he was driving young aboriginal boys out into the bush, stealing their shoes, and then making them walk all the way back into town?

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Gnads

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #53 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 7:10pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:26pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:21pm:

Gnads wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 1:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 10:09am:

Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 9:57am:

So they get monitored, and they get charged if they breach the rules ... but how long will the monitoring go on for?

Most of them are not criminals we are told, so the majority will be given the opportunity to apply for citizenship after the next election

The few remaining, criminals, will be strictly monitored until the next election, after which, the Libs and Labs will come to an agreement that will allow those criminals to work, but with their ankle monitors still on. Then after two years of working and being monitored during that time, they will have their ankle monitors removed and allowed to blend into the community. The dust would have settled, and our short memories and our abundance of humanitarian tolerance will take over, negating any thoughts that those criminals could possibly commit any more crimes

My conscience is clear, I've never voted for the half-brained ALP and Coalition, and I'm not about to start now

Who'd vote for that big mouth Clare O'Neil? ... egotistical generic Clare! ... "I'll keep you safe, I'll keep you safe" - sure, keep the criminals safe before anyone else

Why would you want politicians to decide someone's guilt without a trial and decide the punishment....There is nowhere to send these people once they are rejected by a third country....What is needed is practicle solutions that do not punish innocent people???

Roll Eyes

You send them back to the airport in their country of origin & then it's that countries problem not ours.

And I didn't say all of them - but there are dozens in that 141 who are convicted criminals.

Quote:

Constitutional law expert and UNSW Professor George Williams said it was “unusual” for the court to leave a government “flying blind” by delivering a verbal verdict that had an immediate effect, potentially months in advance of providing the reasoning behind the decision so that Labor might legislate to mitigate the fallout from the ruling.

It’s important to acknowledge the court left Labor in this difficult position, because in many ways it has left the government fighting with one hand behind its back.

Now why do you think the High Court would do something like that?

They are not a "law unto themselves". They do not ... or they're not supposed to "run the country".

And a court should also be concerned that their decisions do not adversely affect Australian citizens.

And that's what they've done by their actions.

You do understand that every criminal accept those who commit the most serious crimes cannot be held indefinatly with no adverse judgement found against them....Even if these people are convicted of rape or other serious crimes by an Australia court there would be a release date set by the court....There are also conventions and treaties Australia has ratified that prevent our Government from returning asylum seekers to a country where they face persecution....I understand people's concerns about criminals being released into the community which is why new legislation needs to beenacted to address the issues raised by the High Court....PeterDutton flubbed it again!!!

I understand those concerns too, however, convicted Australian criminals are released back into society every day.

Once they've completed their sentences, they are set free.

So, we have Australian-born citizens walking around our streets right now who have been convicted of rape, murder, kidnapping, child abuse, etc.

That's the way it's always been.

Some of these asylum seekers have been convicted of crimes in the past and have obviously served their sentences in their home countries.

We don't know how many though - is it 4 or is it 100?

These in the main are not Australians. End of Peccar.

Answer the question here that I posed to Phil.

Quote:

Constitutional law expert and UNSW Professor George Williams said it was “unusual” for the court to leave a government “flying blind” by delivering a verbal verdict that had an immediate effect, potentially months in advance of providing the reasoning behind the decision so that Labor might legislate to mitigate the fallout from the ruling.

Why would the High Court do this?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #54 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 7:18pm

Gnads wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 7:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:26pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:21pm:

Gnads wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 1:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 10:09am:

Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 9:57am:

So they get monitored, and they get charged if they breach the rules ... but how long will the monitoring go on for?

Most of them are not criminals we are told, so the majority will be given the opportunity to apply for citizenship after the next election

The few remaining, criminals, will be strictly monitored until the next election, after which, the Libs and Labs will come to an agreement that will allow those criminals to work, but with their ankle monitors still on. Then after two years of working and being monitored during that time, they will have their ankle monitors removed and allowed to blend into the community. The dust would have settled, and our short memories and our abundance of humanitarian tolerance will take over, negating any thoughts that those criminals could possibly commit any more crimes

My conscience is clear, I've never voted for the half-brained ALP and Coalition, and I'm not about to start now

Who'd vote for that big mouth Clare O'Neil? ... egotistical generic Clare! ... "I'll keep you safe, I'll keep you safe" - sure, keep the criminals safe before anyone else

Why would you want politicians to decide someone's guilt without a trial and decide the punishment....There is nowhere to send these people once they are rejected by a third country....What is needed is practicle solutions that do not punish innocent people???

Roll Eyes

You send them back to the airport in their country of origin & then it's that countries problem not ours.

And I didn't say all of them - but there are dozens in that 141 who are convicted criminals.

Quote:

Constitutional law expert and UNSW Professor George Williams said it was “unusual” for the court to leave a government “flying blind” by delivering a verbal verdict that had an immediate effect, potentially months in advance of providing the reasoning behind the decision so that Labor might legislate to mitigate the fallout from the ruling.

It’s important to acknowledge the court left Labor in this difficult position, because in many ways it has left the government fighting with one hand behind its back.

Now why do you think the High Court would do something like that?

They are not a "law unto themselves". They do not ... or they're not supposed to "run the country".

And a court should also be concerned that their decisions do not adversely affect Australian citizens.

And that's what they've done by their actions.

You do understand that every criminal accept those who commit the most serious crimes cannot be held indefinatly with no adverse judgement found against them....Even if these people are convicted of rape or other serious crimes by an Australia court there would be a release date set by the court....There are also conventions and treaties Australia has ratified that prevent our Government from returning asylum seekers to a country where they face persecution....I understand people's concerns about criminals being released into the community which is why new legislation needs to beenacted to address the issues raised by the High Court....PeterDutton flubbed it again!!!

I understand those concerns too, however, convicted Australian criminals are released back into society every day.

Once they've completed their sentences, they are set free.

So, we have Australian-born citizens walking around our streets right now who have been convicted of rape, murder, kidnapping, child abuse, etc.

That's the way it's always been.

Some of these asylum seekers have been convicted of crimes in the past and have obviously served their sentences in their home countries.

We don't know how many though - is it 4 or is it 100?

These in the main are not Australians.

Indeed.

But how many are convicted criminals?

Nobody seems to know.

Somebody said "most", without a shred of evidence.

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Gnads

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #55 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 7:23pm

Aussie wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:52pm:

Gnads wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 9:27am:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 9:20am:

Gnads wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 7:01am:

Courier Mail today - paywalled.

Quote:

$255M TO FEEL SAFE
TEAMS TO MONITOR VIOLENT ASYLUM SEEKERS
CLARE ARMSTRONG
Police and border agents monitoring convicted criminals released from immigration detention will get $255m to bolster tracking efforts and prosecute those who breach sweeping emergency laws.

At least 141 foreigners, including murderers, rapists and child sex offenders, have been set free in the
community since the High Court ruled against their indefinite detention on November 8.

The federal funding package will be announced by the Albanese government today.

Home Affairs Minister Clare O’Neil said agencies would be able to dedicate time and resources to manage the cohort.

“We have only one priority and that is protecting the safety of the community within the limits of the law,” she said.

Police and border agents monitoring convicted criminals released from immigration detention will get $255m to bolster tracking efforts and prosecute any individuals who breach sweeping emergency laws.

At least 141 foreigners, including murderers, rapists and child sex offenders, have been set free in the community since the High Court ruled against their indefinite detention on November 8.

The federal funding package will be announced by the Albanese government on Monday and includes a cash injection for the joint Australian Federal Police (AFP) and Australian Border Force (ABF) Operation AEGIS established by the Department of Home Affairs to respond to the court decision.

What a ridiculous outcome from the ruling by our woke wanker High Court.

I agree they should be held in detention indefinitely ..... they should have been deported long ago.

Next thing they'll be finding all the murderers, rapists & child sex offenders in our prison system are there illegally & order their release.

This country is going to shyte in a hand basket.

So you would allow the Government of the day to decide the guilt and punishment of individuals instead of the courts....It was legislation introduced by Peter Dutton whilst he was Home Affairs Minister that was unconstitutional and forced the court to release the detainees....Be careful what you wish for???

Roll Eyes

https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/11/23/nzyq-migration-amendments-unconstitutional/

They are not Australian citizens... the do not fit the criteria for granting asylum because they are known criminals ....meaning they are not of good character...

they should be deported ... end of.

Why on earth would you condone the release of foreign criminals into our society?

Some were, including the specific Plaintiff in the High Court action. Dutton gave himself power to remove that citizenship and bung people in detention, both decisions being held to be unconstitutional by the High Court.

Yeah a Sydney underworld figure John Ibrahims brother bikie crim Sam. Born in Lebanon .. from what I've read he's not an Australian citizen... all the Ibrahim brothers are involved in gang related crime.

Dutton didn't cancel his citizenship he cancelled his visa in 2015 so he could deport the criminal back to Lebanon.

There's no excuse for defending the criminals that were in detention as non citizens of this country.

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Gnads

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #56 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 7:25pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 3:28pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:45pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:40pm:

I have already explained this Greg....Although some people seam to think the law does not matter when it concerns asylum seekers....The High Court is not listening to their raving Greg and they cannot understand why???

Roll Eyes

Under a government which imprisons unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison.
Henry David Thoreau (1817 - 1862), Civil Disobedience, 1849

Phil - in this case you're saying it's OK for our country to
be invaded by murderers, rapists, pedophiles and terrorists?

We just have to let them out on our streets?

Bobby, please concentrate.

What happens to Australian-born citizens who have completed their prison sentences for crimes such as murder, rape, terrorism, and child sexual assault?

It's irrelevant to non citizens Peccar & you know it.

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Frank

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #57 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 7:26pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 7:18pm:

Gnads wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 7:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:26pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:21pm:

Gnads wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 1:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 10:09am:

Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 9:57am:

So they get monitored, and they get charged if they breach the rules ... but how long will the monitoring go on for?

Most of them are not criminals we are told, so the majority will be given the opportunity to apply for citizenship after the next election

The few remaining, criminals, will be strictly monitored until the next election, after which, the Libs and Labs will come to an agreement that will allow those criminals to work, but with their ankle monitors still on. Then after two years of working and being monitored during that time, they will have their ankle monitors removed and allowed to blend into the community. The dust would have settled, and our short memories and our abundance of humanitarian tolerance will take over, negating any thoughts that those criminals could possibly commit any more crimes

My conscience is clear, I've never voted for the half-brained ALP and Coalition, and I'm not about to start now

Who'd vote for that big mouth Clare O'Neil? ... egotistical generic Clare! ... "I'll keep you safe, I'll keep you safe" - sure, keep the criminals safe before anyone else

Why would you want politicians to decide someone's guilt without a trial and decide the punishment....There is nowhere to send these people once they are rejected by a third country....What is needed is practicle solutions that do not punish innocent people???

Roll Eyes

You send them back to the airport in their country of origin & then it's that countries problem not ours.

And I didn't say all of them - but there are dozens in that 141 who are convicted criminals.

Quote:

Constitutional law expert and UNSW Professor George Williams said it was “unusual” for the court to leave a government “flying blind” by delivering a verbal verdict that had an immediate effect, potentially months in advance of providing the reasoning behind the decision so that Labor might legislate to mitigate the fallout from the ruling.

It’s important to acknowledge the court left Labor in this difficult position, because in many ways it has left the government fighting with one hand behind its back.

Now why do you think the High Court would do something like that?

They are not a "law unto themselves". They do not ... or they're not supposed to "run the country".

And a court should also be concerned that their decisions do not adversely affect Australian citizens.

And that's what they've done by their actions.

You do understand that every criminal accept those who commit the most serious crimes cannot be held indefinatly with no adverse judgement found against them....Even if these people are convicted of rape or other serious crimes by an Australia court there would be a release date set by the court....There are also conventions and treaties Australia has ratified that prevent our Government from returning asylum seekers to a country where they face persecution....I understand people's concerns about criminals being released into the community which is why new legislation needs to beenacted to address the issues raised by the High Court....PeterDutton flubbed it again!!!

I understand those concerns too, however, convicted Australian criminals are released back into society every day.

Once they've completed their sentences, they are set free.

So, we have Australian-born citizens walking around our streets right now who have been convicted of rape, murder, kidnapping, child abuse, etc.

That's the way it's always been.

Some of these asylum seekers have been convicted of crimes in the past and have obviously served their sentences in their home countries.

We don't know how many though - is it 4 or is it 100?

These in the main are not Australians.

Indeed.

But how many are convicted criminals?

Nobody seems to know.

Somebody said "most", without a shred of evidence.

How many convicted criminals are you happy to release from detention, repellent creep?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #58 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 7:32pm

Frank wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 7:26pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 7:18pm:

Gnads wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 7:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:26pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:21pm:

Gnads wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 1:02pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 10:09am:

Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 9:57am:

So they get monitored, and they get charged if they breach the rules ... but how long will the monitoring go on for?

Most of them are not criminals we are told, so the majority will be given the opportunity to apply for citizenship after the next election

The few remaining, criminals, will be strictly monitored until the next election, after which, the Libs and Labs will come to an agreement that will allow those criminals to work, but with their ankle monitors still on. Then after two years of working and being monitored during that time, they will have their ankle monitors removed and allowed to blend into the community. The dust would have settled, and our short memories and our abundance of humanitarian tolerance will take over, negating any thoughts that those criminals could possibly commit any more crimes

My conscience is clear, I've never voted for the half-brained ALP and Coalition, and I'm not about to start now

Who'd vote for that big mouth Clare O'Neil? ... egotistical generic Clare! ... "I'll keep you safe, I'll keep you safe" - sure, keep the criminals safe before anyone else

Why would you want politicians to decide someone's guilt without a trial and decide the punishment....There is nowhere to send these people once they are rejected by a third country....What is needed is practicle solutions that do not punish innocent people???

Roll Eyes

You send them back to the airport in their country of origin & then it's that countries problem not ours.

And I didn't say all of them - but there are dozens in that 141 who are convicted criminals.

Quote:

Constitutional law expert and UNSW Professor George Williams said it was “unusual” for the court to leave a government “flying blind” by delivering a verbal verdict that had an immediate effect, potentially months in advance of providing the reasoning behind the decision so that Labor might legislate to mitigate the fallout from the ruling.

It’s important to acknowledge the court left Labor in this difficult position, because in many ways it has left the government fighting with one hand behind its back.

Now why do you think the High Court would do something like that?

They are not a "law unto themselves". They do not ... or they're not supposed to "run the country".

And a court should also be concerned that their decisions do not adversely affect Australian citizens.

And that's what they've done by their actions.

You do understand that every criminal accept those who commit the most serious crimes cannot be held indefinatly with no adverse judgement found against them....Even if these people are convicted of rape or other serious crimes by an Australia court there would be a release date set by the court....There are also conventions and treaties Australia has ratified that prevent our Government from returning asylum seekers to a country where they face persecution....I understand people's concerns about criminals being released into the community which is why new legislation needs to beenacted to address the issues raised by the High Court....PeterDutton flubbed it again!!!

I understand those concerns too, however, convicted Australian criminals are released back into society every day.

Once they've completed their sentences, they are set free.

So, we have Australian-born citizens walking around our streets right now who have been convicted of rape, murder, kidnapping, child abuse, etc.

That's the way it's always been.

Some of these asylum seekers have been convicted of crimes in the past and have obviously served their sentences in their home countries.

We don't know how many though - is it 4 or is it 100?

These in the main are not Australians.

Indeed.

But how many are convicted criminals?

Nobody seems to know.

Somebody said "most", without a shred of evidence.

How many convicted criminals are you happy to release from detention, repellent creep?

White, Australian-born, convicted criminals are released from detention in this country every single day.

The asylum seekers in question were not being detained for their crimes - they were being detained because they don't have visas.

What part of this don't you understand?

Now, how many are convicted criminals - do you have a number?

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Gnads

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Re: How stupid is our High Court & our Politicians?
Reply #59 - Nov 27^th, 2023 at 7:34pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 3:43pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 3:32pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 2:13pm:

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 12:39pm:

Many have been convicted by the courts of serious crimes including child rape and murder.

How many?

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2023 at 12:39pm:

Most are convicted criminals.

I've not seen that reported anywhere.

Who told you that?

they made it up Cheesy

Indeed. A complete fabrication.

Why do they do that? Roll Eyes

It doesn't matter if it's only one.

And you know it's more than one.

Quote:

Australian Border Force commissioner Michael Outram revealed earlier on Monday that four of the already-freed cohort had been referred to federal police for refusing to wear ankle bracelets, which have been fitted to 132 people.

He said Border Force officials were still trying to contact one of the four people referred for investigation.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/former-detainees-referred-to-afp-over-an...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12794241/Asylum-seekers-refuse-wear-ank...

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