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Question: Is it smart to eradicate all physical payment options and the safety net they provide?

Yes    
  1 (12.5%)
No    
  7 (87.5%)




Total votes: 8
« Last Modified by: goosecat on: Apr 3rd, 2024 at 11:39pm »

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Cash v Computer (Read 5936 times)
Jasin
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Cash v Computer
Dec 13th, 2023 at 4:45pm
 
Just yesterday, a business I had to deal with was Code Online Down and all their systems were compromised by 'whatever'?

Thing is, this can happen to our Economy if it is fully DEPENDENT on Computer/Online Economics especially where MONEY is involved. There is not one 100% 'security' system out there, even for the CIA and the world's wealthiest - that is fullproof from compromise and failure.
The CIA have been compromised in the last year - twice.
Australia's National Security got taught a lesson by China a few years back and so on with Optus, now Telstra and many businesses around the country with such things as Ransomware and plain destructive viruses, etc.

Now they want to try and 'force' the Cashless Society upon Australia (the petrie dish) and charge people for using CASH.
If there is no 'physical' presence of Money, then it ceases to exist. Just being a digit on a printout, etc - just doesn't cut it for me. It's as if they've basically 'taken the money' from any or all possession from me.

It will fail eventually, the Cashless Society. Because after a time, people will have 'Cards' representing the levels of worth upon them as if Money in the physical form anyway.

Leaving your Wi-Fi on via Watch, Phone, etc - and someone nearby, sitting in a car or walking past, can tap into your details there and then. Account details and all. They will always find a way - technology always has its 'holes' to exploit.

As I've always said "It's cheaper to be mugged in an alleyway of $100 than it is to be mugged online of $10,000"

The Computer/Online system is good and needed. But we should never dismiss Cash as a contingency backup or we really will 'pay' as a nation and society.

Why Cashless?
Well over 2000 tests were done a decade ago involving volunteers (thousands) asked. Where half were given Cash and the other 'Tap & Go'. The difference of people spending was that 80% of the Tappers spent their amounts faster and maxed out. Those with Cash, were more fugal in their spendings.
...you could say, they want you to 'spend your money' and keep less for yourself. Basically that's why they want the Cashless Society 'totally'.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/nat-barr-exposes-a-major-problem-with-a...
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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goosecat
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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #1 - Apr 3rd, 2024 at 12:36am
 
This really should be on a main board. It seems to be a typically short sighted economics driven idea with seemingly little ability to understand the horrendous possible outcomes of digital payment systems failure with no physical alternative. Unplanned accidental failures of a few days would be enough to start panic. Nefarious failures of longer periods would render the economy DEAD and trigger literal rioting. That's not an exaggeration IMHO.                                                                                                                                                                                                           People only need to think back to the toilet paper issue during the Pandemic. Now imagine no way to buy food, fuel or anything for even a few days, let alone a week or two!! Guaranteed rioting and looting, it's not even a question. Now imagine a bit further and scenario evaluate actually being at war and the cyber attacks that come in the future.There is not enough scenario driven analysis being done by the drivers of the "end all physical money" idea. To me it reeks of the same sort of low level, primary school depth analysis that went into predicting China would become a democratic "westernised" nation if we poured "western" money into it lol. Limit it, track it for sure; but never remove all forms of physical payment altogether. It's idiocy.                                        I'm aware of a temp war time money printing and distribution or food stamps scenario evaluation of digital payment systems loss. I just don't see Australia managing it and history suggests we still need physical money already embedded and valued. Even in a digitalised future there remains certain levels of physical requirements and a physical payment system backup has to be available. Aside from that; if you remove any and all physical payment options, you guarantee a rise in even harder to track and near impossible to tax; bartering and trading of services and goods.
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« Last Edit: Apr 3rd, 2024 at 1:12am by goosecat »  
 
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AusGeoff
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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #2 - Apr 3rd, 2024 at 3:14am
 
One has only to look at the disastrous  power outages
caused by storms in Victoria from  Tuesday 13 February
and Thursday 22 February this year in order to see how
even a breakdown in one area of technology can cripple us
socially.

No perishable foods available; no ATMs functioning; libraries,
post offices, and banks closed; cafes and hotels closed; petrol
stations closed; no VoIP (home phone) access; no internet access;
no 4G phone access; no street or security lighting, unable to
call fire or ambulance etc.

We were in the dark—literally—for 3˝ days.   Not good enough
in "the lucky country".      Angry

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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #3 - Apr 3rd, 2024 at 5:58am
 
Data provided by banks indicate that the largest users of cash and those most focussed on it use are the over-70s with that rapidly shading down to zero among 20-somethings.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #4 - Apr 3rd, 2024 at 7:43am
 
Cash Use and Attitudes in Australia

The 2022 Consumer Payments Survey reveals that the ongoing decline in cash use in Australia has accelerated since the COVID-19 pandemic. The share of in-person transactions made with cash halved, from 32 per cent to 16 per cent, over the three years to 2022.

The decline in cash use was particularly pronounced for smaller payments; cash is now used less than electronic methods for all transaction sizes. The demographic groups that traditionally used cash more frequently for payments – such as the elderly, those on lower incomes and those in regional areas – saw the largest declines in cash use.

Privacy and security concerns with electronic payment methods continued to be the main reason for needing cash, while barriers to using electronic payment methods have become less important since 2019.

https://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bulletin/2023/jun/cash-use-and-attitudes-in-...

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« Last Edit: Apr 3rd, 2024 at 7:51am by MeisterEckhart »  
 
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Jasin
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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #5 - Apr 3rd, 2024 at 5:29pm
 
Why does there have to be just 'one' right answer?
Surely keeping the cash system ongoing, if there is an electronic system failure(s) as there has been and always will be, would be the best 'contingency' plan for back-up at least.
When there's a blackout, you reach for the candles at least. Torches are probably the first port of call, or a generator - but if its long lasting, you'll all reach for the candles.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #6 - Apr 3rd, 2024 at 6:52pm
 
The best way to ensure you'll always have cash when needed is to hoard it.

No Australian government would ever demonetise any note in the current banknote set.
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Jasin
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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #7 - Apr 3rd, 2024 at 7:14pm
 
Hope not, but Albanese might. He can do what he likes now. Joe Biden said he could.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #8 - Apr 3rd, 2024 at 7:15pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 3rd, 2024 at 6:52pm:
The best way to ensure you'll always have cash when needed is to hoard it.

No Australian government would ever demonetise any note in the current banknote set.

Although I wouldn't hoard $100 notes!
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Bobby.
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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #9 - Apr 3rd, 2024 at 8:09pm
 
AusGeoff wrote on Apr 3rd, 2024 at 3:14am:
One has only to look at the disastrous  power outages
caused by storms in Victoria from  Tuesday 13 February
and Thursday 22 February this year in order to see how
even a breakdown in one area of technology can cripple us
socially.

No perishable foods available; no ATMs functioning; libraries,
post offices, and banks closed; cafes and hotels closed; petrol
stations closed; no VoIP (home phone) access; no internet access;
no 4G phone access; no street or security lighting, unable to
call fire or ambulance etc.

We were in the dark—literally—for 3˝ days.   Not good enough
in "the lucky country".      Angry




Yes - it was frightening.
I thought I'd have no power or communications for 3 days
but luckily it was for only 7 hours.

Some people lost power for weeks.
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freediver
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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #10 - Apr 3rd, 2024 at 8:45pm
 
Quote:
As I've always said "It's cheaper to be mugged in an alleyway of $100 than it is to be mugged online of $10,000"


Not many people get killed by junkies on the internet.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Jasin
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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #11 - Apr 3rd, 2024 at 9:08pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 3rd, 2024 at 8:45pm:
Quote:
As I've always said "It's cheaper to be mugged in an alleyway of $100 than it is to be mugged online of $10,000"


Not many people get killed by junkies on the internet.

Then just hand over your $100 and give them a $10 tip for good luck. Still beats $10,000. A junkie just wants 'easy money' and not have to work hard for it.

...at least you get to see who robs you and there's always a rainy day later to follow them back to where they live.  Wink
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Bobby.
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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #12 - Apr 3rd, 2024 at 9:13pm
 
Jasin wrote on Apr 3rd, 2024 at 9:08pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 3rd, 2024 at 8:45pm:
Quote:
As I've always said "It's cheaper to be mugged in an alleyway of $100 than it is to be mugged online of $10,000"


Not many people get killed by junkies on the internet.

Then just hand over your $100 and give them a $10 tip for good luck. Still beats $10,000. A junkie just wants 'easy money' and not have to work hard for it.

...at least you get to see who robs you and there's always a rainy day later to follow them back to where they live.  Wink



For some vigilante justice?   Smiley
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Bobby.
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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #13 - Apr 3rd, 2024 at 9:25pm
 
Vigilantes:


...
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Jasin
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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #14 - Apr 3rd, 2024 at 9:27pm
 
Some local abos stole some of our dive gear from our cars, couldn't find our other valuables though. We knew where they lived and we turned up later with our tools of the trade (Spearguns and knives) and not only got our dive gear back, but a lot other other dive gear and well, in just 1 hour we cleaned them out good.  Wink
Even Bikers don't mess with Commercial Divers. In New Zealand, the Divers raided and burnt down a Biker Club House just for a graduation party.  Smiley

Being robbed online, well - you've been robbed by 'the machine' and that's that.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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