Australian Politics Forum - Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024

Frank

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #105 - Jan 17^th, 2024 at 2:14pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 12:56pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 12:45pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 12:21pm:

SOME - eg the least competitve - will be "victims of capitalism", others of their genes.

Are YOU a victim of capitalism or of your genes?

No. I was lucky enough to have a job all my working life, and gave up grog and cigs early on, so not a victim of my genes.

Who made you lucky? Who made you give up the cigs and the booze?

Obviously nuffin' to do with your own self-directed autonomy which is a total neoliberal myth, as everybody who has read your posts knows by now.
Or was it genes?

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UnSubRocky

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #106 - Jan 17^th, 2024 at 2:55pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 11:10am:

No-one "chooses" to become an alcoholic:

Causes of alcoholism

https://toolkit.lifeline.org.au/topics/substance-misuse/causes-of-substance-misu...

Your current circumstances

Escaping uncertain, painful, or difficult circumstances in your life can be another reason for misusing substances.

These circumstances might include:

1.Financial strains or pressure
2.Homelessness or housing insecurity
3.Stress at work, school or at home
4.Losing your job, or struggling to find work
5.Big life changes like the end of a relationship, moving out of home, finishing school, or retiring.

Interesting opinion. My alcohol intake quadrupled in the covid period. Some joker in government decided that I was entitled to an extra $550/fortnight on top of what I was already getting. I basically went from a financially struggling position by my 41st birthday to one where I had an extra day off at work and 50% more income.

You can imagine the lure of spending that day off in front of the computer would mean that I could spend that time drinking. It took another 18 months (and a usual once a week drinking session) before I was hit with a real triggered memory of a PTSD issue. The drinking went from once a week, to twice a week. I recall one week where I was drinking 4 litres of alcohol just to get through the week.

Given that I have spent much of my money wasted on non-essentials, the drinking has subsided to once a fortnight. The focus on finishing my university course, and the desire to get fit, it is something that discredits your idea that educational or financial stress causes people to drink. The more pressure I am under, the less likely I am to drink. The less responsibilities I have, the more likely I am to drink.

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At this stage...

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 84776 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Reply #107 - Jan 17^th, 2024 at 7:55pm Yeeee-uussssh - it's my genes that made me fat/alcoholic/lazy/crazy/gay/transgender/activist/predisposed to nerdism ... you name it.... I'm the victim here...
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Frank

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #108 - Jan 17^th, 2024 at 9:53pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 7:55pm:

Yeeee-uussssh - it's my genes that made me fat/alcoholic/lazy/crazy/gay/transgender/activist/predisposed to nerdism ... you name it.... I'm the victim here...

No, no, no - you are white. Well, off-white. That was your choice, supremacist oppressor.

And you have a social disease.

Oh, yes. Wink

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« Last Edit: Jan 17^th, 2024 at 10:03pm by Frank »

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Gnads

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #109 - Jan 18^th, 2024 at 5:45pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 11:10am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 16^th, 2024 at 8:46pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 16^th, 2024 at 5:24pm:

As for "dignity", neither the physically ravaged alcoholic mother or her FAS-crippled baby is a manifestation of 'human dignity', despite both having equality before the law

A fat lot of good the said 'equality before the law' achieves for mother and baby.

And why did mother and child end up in this catastrophic circumstance, despite "equality before the law"?

Personal choice.... a fat lot of good extra treatment with fierce advertising campaigns and medical advice at clinics did... when you choose the Dark Side, Flake - you are on your own.... and you just can't help yourself.

No-one "chooses" to become an alcoholic:

Causes of alcoholism

https://toolkit.lifeline.org.au/topics/substance-misuse/causes-of-substance-misu...

Your current circumstances

Escaping uncertain, painful, or difficult circumstances in your life can be another reason for misusing substances.

These circumstances might include:

1.Financial strains or pressure
2.Homelessness or housing insecurity
3.Stress at work, school or at home
4.Losing your job, or struggling to find work
5.Big life changes like the end of a relationship, moving out of home, finishing school, or retiring.
......

Note: the heading 'Your current circumstances" is only one of several categories considerd in the article; together they expose your assertion of "personal responsibility" to be an expression of willful ignorance.

In fact your ideology is a vicious 'survival of the fittest' ideology based on the Classical Liberal 'natural individual rights' delusion, and its bastard sibling 'equality before the (delusion-based) law.

geez, tackling you, FD and Frank is like herding cats.

No wonder our world is in such a bad state.

What we need is good law which ameliorates/ eradicates the causes of the circumstances itemized above.

Oh perrrrlease ... just like drug addicts ey?

They don't choose to pop pills or even worse stick needles in themselves????

phuckorffff ... the pussy soft world of lefties like you is just a justifier & excuse maker for every one with a hard luck story when it comes to people making shyte life choices around alcohol & drugs & crime.

That's why the western world is in such a sorry state with rampant youth crime/crime & criminals in general.

Roll Eyes

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #110 - Jan 18^th, 2024 at 5:57pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 2:55pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 11:10am:

No-one "chooses" to become an alcoholic:

Causes of alcoholism

https://toolkit.lifeline.org.au/topics/substance-misuse/causes-of-substance-misu...

Your current circumstances

Escaping uncertain, painful, or difficult circumstances in your life can be another reason for misusing substances.

These circumstances might include:

1.Financial strains or pressure
2.Homelessness or housing insecurity
3.Stress at work, school or at home
4.Losing your job, or struggling to find work
5.Big life changes like the end of a relationship, moving out of home, finishing school, or retiring.

Interesting opinion. My alcohol intake quadrupled in the covid period. Some joker in government decided that I was entitled to an extra $550/fortnight on top of what I was already getting. I basically went from a financially struggling position by my 41st birthday to one where I had an extra day off at work and 50% more income.

You can imagine the lure of spending that day off in front of the computer would mean that I could spend that time drinking. It took another 18 months (and a usual once a week drinking session) before I was hit with a real triggered memory of a PTSD issue. The drinking went from once a week, to twice a week. I recall one week where I was drinking 4 litres of alcohol just to get through the week.

Given that I have spent much of my money wasted on non-essentials, the drinking has subsided to once a fortnight. The focus on finishing my university course, and the desire to get fit, it is something that discredits your idea that educational or financial stress causes people to drink. The more pressure I am under, the less likely I am to drink. The less responsibilities I have, the more likely I am to drink.

So you used the extra capital granted to you during Covid to get on the piss instead of using it wisely .... your choice

and you want to blame the govt for giving it to you?

Grin

Typical of the excuse making, irresponsible, blame someone else generation you belong to.

You phukking hopeless clown ... stop bludging off your family, stand up be a man, finish something that may give you a decent job, stick to it and make something of yourself to be proud of ....

all you ever do is make excuses for your failures.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #111 - Jan 19^th, 2024 at 9:30am

Frank wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 2:14pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 12:56pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 12:45pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 12:21pm:

SOME - eg the least competitve - will be "victims of capitalism", others of their genes.

Are YOU a victim of capitalism or of your genes?

No. I was lucky enough to have a job all my working life, and gave up grog and cigs early on, so not a victim of my genes.

Who made you lucky?

I "chose" the right parents.....capiche?

Total free will is an illusion: "give me the child and I will show you the man"....

Quote:

Who made you give up the cigs and the booze?

I did, and I didn't have to struggle with a genetic disposition to substance addiction.

Quote:

Obviously nuffin' to do with your own self-directed autonomy

My own self-directed autonomy has come from a desire to prosper, and my awareness of the traps in the capitalist junk/unhealthy, greed-motivated consumer society.

Quote:

which is a total neoliberal myth, as everybody who has read your posts knows by now.
Or was it genes?

The neoliberal 'myth' is based on the 'natural individual rights' myth, which is the basis of your ugly "individual freedom"/survival of the fittest ideology.

And yes, genes are involved.

"Deplorable".

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 84776 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Reply #112 - Jan 19^th, 2024 at 4:32pm Talk about paddling neck deep n mythology - the independent individual sovereign thought idea doesn't exist but.... "My own self-directed autonomy has come from a desire to prosper, and my awareness of the traps in the capitalist junk/unhealthy, greed-motivated consumer society."
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Frank

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #113 - Jan 19^th, 2024 at 5:55pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 9:30am:

Frank wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 2:14pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 12:56pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 12:45pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 12:21pm:

SOME - eg the least competitve - will be "victims of capitalism", others of their genes.

Are YOU a victim of capitalism or of your genes?

No. I was lucky enough to have a job all my working life, and gave up grog and cigs early on, so not a victim of my genes.

Who made you lucky?

I "chose" the right parents.....capiche?

Total free will is an illusion: "give me the child and I will show you the man"....

Quote:

Who made you give up the cigs and the booze?

I did, and I didn't have to struggle with a genetic disposition to substance addiction.

Quote:

Obviously nuffin' to do with your own self-directed autonomy

My own self-directed autonomy has come from a desire to prosper, and my awareness of the traps in the capitalist junk/unhealthy, greed-motivated consumer society.

Quote:

which is a total neoliberal myth, as everybody who has read your posts knows by now.
Or was it genes?

The neoliberal 'myth' is based on the 'natural individual rights' myth, which is the basis of your ugly "individual freedom"/survival of the fittest ideology.

And yes, genes are involved.

"Deplorable".

You spell out your own contradictions without being aware.
That is what parroting stupidity means. You are the living example. Everyone sees it but you.

You displayed individual, self-directed behaviour for 'ugly' self-preservation and 'mythological' survival.

You are laughable. Google it. Wink

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 84776 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Reply #114 - Jan 19^th, 2024 at 10:00pm 'Give me a child by age five and he is mine forever' - is more apt. That other one is the same in disguise.... you mean the 'man' you will create of him.... bent out of shape by society's pliers... genetic predisposition to the booze - cop-out. He iss, avter all - ein Vrankenschtein!
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #115 - Jan 19^th, 2024 at 10:01pm

Now then - about this protest at OUR national park at Mt Warning come AUSTRALIA Day.

That woman - steeped in knowledge and teaching at the pre-natal clinic about the dangers of heavy drinking when pregnant - made her own choice. We're not responsible for her lack of dignity, her child's FAS, and we are not in the business of forcing horses to drink ..... or horse's arses for that matter.....

A horse, intent on making a statement, walks into a bar, says to the barman..

"Do you serve horses here?"

"Nay", replies the barman....

"But the sign outside says differently!", says the horse

"Yes - but that's on a plate....."

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #116 - Jan 19^th, 2024 at 10:10pm

Labor government minister heads off for Mt Warning... sees two white guys pulling an Aborigine up the face with a rope through a pulley.... says,

"Look at that for integration! White guys helping that Aborigine cliff climb to the top!"

One white guy turns to the other...

"Jeez - these Canberra ministers don't know much about tracking down wild tigers escaped from the zoo, do they?"

"Yeah - or about hunting drop bears, either!"

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« Last Edit: Jan 19^th, 2024 at 10:25pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #117 - Jan 20^th, 2024 at 10:29am

Frank wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 5:55pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 9:30am:

Frank wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 2:14pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 12:56pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 12:45pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17^th, 2024 at 12:21pm:

SOME - eg the least competitve - will be "victims of capitalism", others of their genes.

Are YOU a victim of capitalism or of your genes?

No. I was lucky enough to have a job all my working life, and gave up grog and cigs early on, so not a victim of my genes.

Who made you lucky?

I "chose" the right parents.....capiche?

Total free will is an illusion: "give me the child and I will show you the man"....

Quote:

Who made you give up the cigs and the booze?

I did, and I didn't have to struggle with a genetic disposition to substance addiction.

Quote:

Obviously nuffin' to do with your own self-directed autonomy

My own self-directed autonomy has come from a desire to prosper, and my awareness of the traps in the capitalist junk/unhealthy, greed-motivated consumer society.

Quote:

which is a total neoliberal myth, as everybody who has read your posts knows by now.
Or was it genes?

The neoliberal 'myth' is based on the 'natural individual rights' myth, which is the basis of your ugly "individual freedom"/survival of the fittest ideology.

And yes, genes are involved.

"Deplorable".

You spell out your own contradictions without being aware.

That's a good start, Frank; let's see you support you case with direct reference to points I'm making.

Quote:

That is what parroting stupidity means. You are the living example. Everyone sees it but you.

Er ....ok...for some reason you found it necessary to define " parroting stupidity", but I'm still waiting for your proofs, with reference to the points I made.

Quote:

You displayed individual, self-directed behaviour for 'ugly' self-preservation and 'mythological' survival.

(At last....some actual debate...)

Wrong; I displayed striving for my personal prosperity, in the context of striving for the minimum acceptable prosperity for all, as required by a sense of fairness, something which your crippled 'natural individual rights'-deluded brain apparently can't comprehend.

Note: external (economic and social, nature) factors, as well as internal factors (personal responsibility, genes, nurture) apply in the attainment of prosperity.

ie prosperity is not only a matter of personal responsibility. "No man is an island".

Quote:

You are laughable. Google it. Wink

Don't need to google it: your premise was wrong, as shown above, hence your conclusion is garbage (GIGO).

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« Last Edit: Jan 20^th, 2024 at 10:43am by thegreatdivide »

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 84776 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Reply #118 - Jan 20^th, 2024 at 10:38am What happened to the Mt Warning protest? Looks like dividie's home therapy session now... Talk about de-railing discussions.... Anyone who shows up with a spear should be shot for resisting arrest ... lynching is appropriate for damaging cars and stuff ... time for a little of the old hard line ....
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #119 - Jan 20^th, 2024 at 10:51am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 20^th, 2024 at 10:38am:

What happened to the Mt Warning protest? Looks like dividie's home therapy session now...

Talk about de-railing discussions....

Anyone who shows up with a spear should be shot for resisting arrest ... lynching is appropriate for damaging cars and stuff ... time for a little of the old hard line ....

What happened?

The need to educate crippled minds liike yours is paramount, so an examination of ideological foundations is paramount, in any topic.

Ofcourse, cultural mumbo jumbo which deprives people of the ability to enjoy various exhilirating natural sites is a pain in the arse.

But education/understanding WHY people would want to deny access is also vital.

And god knows you need educating.....

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