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Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 (Read 11086 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #150 - Jan 23rd, 2024 at 10:14am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 5:45pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 3:03pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 12:50pm:
We are discussing the government's closure of our national parks - not 'disadvantage'. 


You could have said that ages ago, before you started displaying your Libertarian fantasies and your resulting confusion re disadvantage, personal responsibility, and choice.

Quote:
If you can't handle that, get back to your money strand... 'debate' to your heart's content....


As I said, others were also biting, on the issue of delusional 'natural individual rights'.....which is also connected to Thatcher's widely held "no such thing as public money" delusion.

My task is to disabuse ozpol members  of both delusions, so we can indeed institute  government which engenders prosperity for all.


Quote:
Now then - our RIGHT to free use of national parks.... now where would such a RIGHT come from?


From the DESIRE for free use of national parks; note: blacks - even educated ones -  obviously don't think there is any such "right". 

I think a better approach is to guarantee  blacks prosperity in the modern  economy (via a job guarantee), in exchange for giving up cultural mumbo-jumbo re Mt Warning.





All nonsense - as dear old mothra would say - so much wrong with this there is no time to be bothered...


Common graps, that's not how it works.

You even crossed out this point which YOU raised, which is 'on topic',  and which I answered:

Graps question: "our RIGHT to free use of national parks.... now where would such a RIGHT come from?"

GD's answer: "From the DESIRE for free use of national parks; note: blacks - even educated ones -  obviously don't think there is any such "right"". 

Unfortunately for you,  you have to show - via reasoned argument -  where I'm wrong, rather than just simply crossing the answer out.   
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #151 - Jan 23rd, 2024 at 11:03am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 6:52pm:
It appears that


Ah...so now you deign to present a reasoned argument, let's see what you got...

Quote:
some of the True Racists here adhere to the idea that ONLY the Aborigines have any right to determine what is and what isn't a 'Right' to suit themselves


No; my argument is:

1. Rights don't exist in nature (refuting the  Classical Liberal dogma), on the contrary, only desires which are formulated/designated  as "rights", exist in law.

2. As proof, in the case of entry "rights" re Mt Warning: blacks don't recognize any such "rights" because their law re Mt Warning is different to white man's law (before the govt. recognized native law and closed the park). 

Nothing to do with 'racism' and whether I am a "True Racist" or not; everything to do with your "natural rights" delusion, as explained above.

Law is the basis of "rights",  nature is not.

And the culture of the community will determine those "rights" in law

So the rest of your post will be GIGO:

Quote:
- the ONLY ones with some right to self-determination and the use of the corrupt and decadent money system to get what they want - but the majority, the Others, have Buckley's Chance of even having a fair hearing of any such same-same right in this once-great and  once-proud democracy of ours...


Yep,  GIGO - rule of law, of necessity, overrules self-determination by self-interested individuals

Quote:
Never in the field of human conflict has so much been owed by so many to so few True Racists......

Let's see what dividie* can come back with there....


Already done, see how easy it was?

Quote:
Let us not forget - again for the VERY slow ones here - the state 'government' closed off access to Mt Warning and a few other places on the grounds of safety - according to them it had nothing to do with Aboriginal Special Rights ... so the argument, despite some rank idiot posturing about spearing people, is between People and Government.....


Well if that was the case, the pollies involved were idiots, or lying, or both.   The only reason with any substance is respect (misplaced in my view) for black law (culture).

Quote:
A time to be banned,
A time to restore Rights,
A time for Race Division
A time for sense and unity


..and it's time governments instituted prosperity for all, instead of being sucked into the vortex of self-interested individuals subject to delusional ideologies.   

Quote:
* we all know 'dividie' - he's the same-same turkey who likes to think that going round and round and trying to confuse people and never once accepting when he is bested, and insulting others, is a fun way of smart trolling - well - there is no 'smart' trolling


Indeed; but the process of lifting the veil of delusion is difficult. 

Quote:
.... as his forebear found out... jeez dividie would go a treat arguing with religious groups about transgenderism - that false god ...


That seems to be your chief interest; I'm not interested,   we can all prosper (transgender or not) given good governance and an informed economic polity..... though I would argue about the 'divinity of scripture' with religious groups.
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« Last Edit: Jan 23rd, 2024 at 11:13am by thegreatdivide »  
 
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freediver
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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #152 - Jan 27th, 2024 at 4:24pm
 
Unfortunately a lot of these are paywalled.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/tweed-heads/mt-warningwollumbin-defiance-hikers-rally-against-sacred-mountain-climbing-ban-in-tweed-shire-northern-nsw/news-story/df51d99fe9cfaf2368a138a12c1a79eb

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13008479/Mt-Warning-Wollumbin-protestors-defy-climbing-ban-Australia-Day-sunrise.html

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Frank
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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #153 - Jan 27th, 2024 at 6:22pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 27th, 2024 at 4:24pm:
Unfortunately a lot of these are paywalled.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/tweed-heads/mt-warningwollumbin-defiance-hikers-rally-against-sacred-mountain-climbing-ban-in-tweed-shire-northern-nsw/news-story/df51d99fe9cfaf2368a138a12c1a79eb

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13008479/Mt-Warning-Wollumbin-protestors-defy-climbing-ban-Australia-Day-sunrise.html


https://www.essentiallysports.com/viral-sports-moments-hiking-news-protesters-sc...
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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #154 - Jan 27th, 2024 at 8:24pm
 
Well - being a NATIONAL park confers on all the right to use it and enjoy the spirituality of the sunrise etc.  Stuff the minority whingers.

What part of NATIONAL do you not understand?  Stuff the whingers and stuff the governments!!
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #155 - Jan 28th, 2024 at 4:46am
 
**enter extreme right, disguised as left - Ho Chi Minns**


It won't be easy, you'll think it strange
When I try to explain how we feel
That we still need your votes after all that we've done
You won't believe us, all you will see is the Labour you once knew
Although it's dressed up to the nines
At sixes and sevens with you
We had to let it happen, it's not our fault
Couldn't stay all our lives down at heel
Looking out for the workers, fingers stuck in the vault
So we chose identity, mobs running around tearing everything down
But nothing changed things for them at all
Though somehow they expected it to

Please vote for us,  Australiana
The truth is, Labor never left you
All through our salad days, our mad existence
We kept our promise
Now you're all distanced.

And as for fortune, and as for fame
We never invited them in
Though it seemed to the world that we lapped them all up
They are illusions for you, they're our solutions they promised to be
The answer was here all the time
We love you, and still need your vote
Please vote for us,  Australiana
The truth is, Labor never left you
All through Black power days, our mad existence
We kept our promise
Now you're all distanced.

Have I said too much?
There's nothing more I can think of to say to you
But all you have to do is look at me to know
That every word is untrue
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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freediver
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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #156 - Jan 28th, 2024 at 10:56am
 
Quote:
Note from ABC after asking if they will be covering the event.... "your event only tells one side of the story. In the interests of balanced reporting, we are preparing a TV story incorporating various points of view. I’ll let you know when it goes to air or is available online." I replied ... "Surprised not a simple factual news report of the walk and the event. ABC have history supporting false Bundjalung claims about the Mountain with no opposing viewpoint. Look forward seeing the TV report."


Why would the ABC decline to report on the fact that there was a protest? There is nothing stopping them digging up alternative views, if they actually exist, but they seem to be shrouded in mystery. Not reporting anything at all is not balance, it is keeping their readers in the dark.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #157 - Jan 28th, 2024 at 11:05am
 
"your event only tells one side of the story" ... so thus we'll ignore it..

I'd say it tells MOST sides of the story... the ABC view, of course, is there is only one side - the approved Aboriginal side, and that thus all other sides are irrelevant.... i.e. the Aboriginal 'event' only tells one side of the story ....................

Yardle, yardle, yardle....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #158 - Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:00pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 27th, 2024 at 8:24pm:
Well - being a NATIONAL park confers on all the right to use it and enjoy the spirituality of the sunrise etc.  Stuff the minority whingers.




Interestingly, blacks are not united on closing Mt Warning, they are dividing on gender lines......(!)

Some black women are saying 'the men only mythology' is BS.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/protestors-defy-mt-warning-wollumbin-cl...

Mr Boyd's mother Marlene has been referred to as the custodian of Mt Warning and his sister Elizabeth has campaigned against the Wollumbin Consultative Group claims.


Quote:
What part of NATIONAL do you not understand?


The part which says 50% + 1 determines (non-existent) "rights".

And the part which says a nation can make war on another nation, in the age of MAD. 

Quote:
Stuff the whingers and stuff the governments!!


Your fascism is showing.....
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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #159 - Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:05pm
 
Quote:
The part which says 50% + 1 determines (non-existent) "rights".


Much better to have the CCP tell you eh?
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #160 - Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:26pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:00pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 27th, 2024 at 8:24pm:
Well - being a NATIONAL park confers on all the right to use it and enjoy the spirituality of the sunrise etc.  Stuff the minority whingers.




Interestingly, blacks are not united on closing Mt Warning, they are dividing on gender lines......(!)
So it's a done deal - we re-open 'im ...


Some black women are saying 'the men only mythology' is BS. 
We all know that.


https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/protestors-defy-mt-warning-wollumbin-cl...

Mr Boyd's mother Marlene has been referred to as the custodian of Mt Warning and his sister Elizabeth has campaigned against the Wollumbin Consultative Group claims.


Quote:
What part of NATIONAL do you not understand?


The part which says 50% + 1 determines (non-existent) "rights". 
61-39 ring a bell?  Where wzs the vote on this?  Do you seriously contend that 50%+ 1 supported closure of national parks to suit a tiny minority?


And the part which says a nation can make war on another nation, in the age of MAD. 

Quote:
Stuff the whingers and stuff the governments!!


Your fascism is showing.....
No - yours is...


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thegreatdivide
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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #161 - Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:27pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:05pm:
Quote:
The part which says 50% + 1 determines (non-existent) "rights".


Much better to have the CCP tell you eh?


The CCP has a goal of common prosperity.

So - assuming the CCP is not derailed by orthodox 'survival of the fittest' Western neoclassical economics  - yes.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #162 - Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:42pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:26pm:
61-39 ring a bell?  Where wzs the vote on this?  Do you seriously contend that 50%+ 1 supported closure of national parks to suit a tiny minority?[/color]


Well, the tiny minority gained the support of the governing parties. How did it happen?

Hint: a failure of governments  to honestly examine the need to eclipse the h-g culture, and assist its transition to the modern world eg with a Job Guarantee.    

Quote:
No - yours is...


My "fascism" is based on support for rule of law on behalf of prosperity for all, yours is based on delusional 'natural individual rights' ideology in support of individuals' greed- based, "invisible hand" claims on the nation's resources.
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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #163 - Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:52pm
 

Well, the tiny minority gained the support of the governing parties. How did it happen? 
It's called sell-out/betrayal/refusing to abide by the will of the majority in a democracy


Hint: a failure of governments  to honestly examine the need to eclipse the h-g culture, and assist its transition to the modern world eg with a Job Guarantee.   

Quote:
No - yours is...


My "fascism" is based on support for rule of law on behalf of prosperity for all, yours is based on delusional 'natural individual rights' ideology in support of individuals' greed- based, "invisible hand" claims on the nation's resources.
No - MINE is based on support for the rules of law on behalf of prosperity for ALL, YOURS is based on artificially promoting the interests of a few - in classical Fascist manner - and over-riding the wishes and will of the majority, using force if necessary.... the force of lawfare meaning law wrongfully used for a purpose it was never intended.  It's a favourite of Fascists like you, Xi, Albo and countless others.  EVERYTHING the Nazis did was according to their rule of law.... you and all those and more abuse law and its intended use, and cloak your Fascism behind smarmy comments about 'disadvantage' and such.


“The end of law is not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge freedom. For in all the states of created beings capable of law, where there is no law, there is no freedom.”  - John Locke.


'The end of Law is not the perversion of Justice, nor is it the extinction of Liberty'. 
- Rastus X (Rastus Xavier)
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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #164 - Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:54pm
 
.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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