Australian Politics Forum - Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024

freediver

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #30 - Jan 11^th, 2024 at 3:41pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 1:54pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 12:46pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 12:45pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 12:21pm:

Quote:

I have outlined why your "individual freedom" values ideology

What ideology is that? I don't think you ever said. You just started ranting about it.

The ideology based on the illusion of 'natural individual rights", based on survival/competitive instincts of individuals.

Whereas sweet reason, and concepts like "fairness" are cortex-based.

Your task in life is to be 'reason-able', rather than blindly driven by self-interested survival instincts.

Yeah, that's what your rants sound like.

What ideology is that?

The ideology of Reason, not accessible to your blind individual instinct-driven brain.

Hence the endless wars and and entrenched poverty in our world - an entirely unreason-able outcome of human relations.

So you think you have proven that reason itself is an illusion?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #31 - Jan 11^th, 2024 at 4:32pm

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 3:41pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 1:54pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 12:46pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 12:45pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 12:21pm:

Quote:

I have outlined why your "individual freedom" values ideology

What ideology is that? I don't think you ever said. You just started ranting about it.

The ideology based on the illusion of 'natural individual rights", based on survival/competitive instincts of individuals.

Whereas sweet reason, and concepts like "fairness" are cortex-based.

Your task in life is to be 'reason-able', rather than blindly driven by self-interested survival instincts.

Yeah, that's what your rants sound like.

What ideology is that?

The ideology of Reason, not accessible to your blind individual instinct-driven brain.

Hence the endless wars and and entrenched poverty in our world - an entirely unreason-able outcome of human relations.

So you think you have proven that reason itself is an illusion?

For dat boy everything is an illusion..

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #32 - Jan 11^th, 2024 at 5:46pm

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 3:41pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 1:54pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 12:46pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 12:45pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 12:21pm:

Quote:

I have outlined why your "individual freedom" values ideology

What ideology is that? I don't think you ever said. You just started ranting about it.

The ideology based on the illusion of 'natural individual rights", based on survival/competitive instincts of individuals.

Whereas sweet reason, and concepts like "fairness" are cortex-based.

Your task in life is to be 'reason-able', rather than blindly driven by self-interested survival instincts.

Yeah, that's what your rants sound like.

What ideology is that?

The ideology of Reason, not accessible to your blind individual instinct-driven brain.

Hence the endless wars and and entrenched poverty in our world - an entirely unreason-able outcome of human relations.

So you think you have proven that reason itself is an illusion?

No; and that's obviously not even what I wanted to prove, your thinking is already confused.

I think I have proven reason, in consideration of universal wellbeing (as in the UNUDHR) is incompatible with "reason" based on the (individual) "freedom" illusion.

(Unregulated individual freedom is an illusion if the world has more than one self-interested individual in it...).

The illusion is the (individual) "freedom" ideology, arrived at by the unreason of instinct-driven thought.

Note: everyone has shouted "that's not fair", sometime in their life; they are reasoning from their own perspective of "fairness".

The solution (other than via resort to un-reasoning conflict) is acceptance of rule of law to adjudicate "fairness", from the point of view of justice determined by the collective, not the self-interested individual.

The quality of the justice is evident in the outcomes in the community (eg, order, tranquility, versus hyper-partisanship).

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Frank

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #33 - Jan 11^th, 2024 at 6:04pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 5:46pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 3:41pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 1:54pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 12:46pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 12:45pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 12:21pm:

Quote:

I have outlined why your "individual freedom" values ideology

What ideology is that? I don't think you ever said. You just started ranting about it.

The ideology based on the illusion of 'natural individual rights", based on survival/competitive instincts of individuals.

Whereas sweet reason, and concepts like "fairness" are cortex-based.

Your task in life is to be 'reason-able', rather than blindly driven by self-interested survival instincts.

Yeah, that's what your rants sound like.

What ideology is that?

The ideology of Reason, not accessible to your blind individual instinct-driven brain.

Hence the endless wars and and entrenched poverty in our world - an entirely unreason-able outcome of human relations.

So you think you have proven that reason itself is an illusion?

No; and that's obviously not even what I wanted to prove, your thinking is already confused.

I think I have proven reason, in consideration of universal wellbeing (as in the UNUDHR) is incompatible with "reason" based on the (individual) "freedom" illusion.

(Unregulated individual freedom is an illusion if the world has more than one self-interested individual in it...).

The illusion is the (individual) "freedom" ideology, arrived at by the unreason of instinct-driven thought.

Note: everyone has shouted "that's not fair", sometime in their life; they are reasoning from their own perspective of "fairness".

The solution (other than via resort to un-reasoning conflict) is acceptance of rule of law to adjudicate "fairness", from the point of view of justice determined by the collective, not the self-interested individual.

The quality of the justice is evident in the outcomes in the community (eg, order, tranquility, versus hyper-partisanship).

Point to a single jurisdiction where individual freedom is unregulated.

Parliaments are derived from the collective will and t they generate the rule of law.

There is no 'hyper-partisanship' and communist dictatorship is certainly not the answer to anything.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #34 - Jan 11^th, 2024 at 6:21pm

"Parliaments are derived from the collective will "

Peasant 1:- “Oo are you then?”

Albo:- “I am your Great Leader, and I bring you the Indigenous Voice!”

Peasant 1:- “Oo created this Indigenous Voice then? What's it based on?”

Albo (heavenly music):- “The Great Serpent, filled with the power of the seas and the skies and the thunder and lightning in the clouds, came down from Heaven, and using his great body, carved the hills and river courses, and then dying, his mighty ribs created the mountains and his bones the Indigenous People to be custodians over the land and gave them a Voice over all in the land which must be restored to them ….......”

Peasant 2:- “Some failed herpetological experiment is no basis on which to form a valid argument to develop a multi-layered government by changing the Constitution! True government comes from a mandate of the masses, willingly given and fully informed! We're a semi-autonomous, quasi-anarchic egalitarian assemblage of rules-bound free individuals who vote every three years on our elected representatives, who then sit down and natter out the best way forward, and if we disagree with them we can write to them or vote them out next time around, or even refuse to abide by their dictates under the guiding principle that 'an unjust law – (or decision or policy for that matter) – is no law - (or decision or policy for that matter) - at all'! We don't need no Voices in our heads telling us what to do!!”

Albo:- “But failure to do so is racist and divisive!”

Peasant 2:- “Oh – now we see the truth about the injustice and fundamental tyranny in the system – we're racist and divisive for just wanting things left alone!”

Albo:- “But I am your Great Leader! You must vote for this Voice or be branded traitor forever – an enemy of the people and racist to boot! Now stop being a bloody racist White invader and just vote for it!”

Peasant 2:- “Ah - there it is right in front of you – look everyone – this is how the system treats those who dissent! Name-calling and insult! I'll vote NO thanks.”

Albo:- (grabs peasant's shirt front) “Look, you bloody white supremacist invading convict derived moron! Just vote YES for what's right and get on with it!” (shakes peasant)

Peasant 2:- “Come on! Look at this everybody!! I'm being oppressed! This is how the system treats you if you say NO.... I'm being oppressed!!”

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #35 - Jan 11^th, 2024 at 6:26pm

Frank wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 6:04pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 5:46pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 3:41pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 1:54pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 12:46pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 12:45pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 12:21pm:

Quote:

I have outlined why your "individual freedom" values ideology

What ideology is that? I don't think you ever said. You just started ranting about it.

The ideology based on the illusion of 'natural individual rights", based on survival/competitive instincts of individuals.

Whereas sweet reason, and concepts like "fairness" are cortex-based.

Your task in life is to be 'reason-able', rather than blindly driven by self-interested survival instincts.

Yeah, that's what your rants sound like.

What ideology is that?

The ideology of Reason, not accessible to your blind individual instinct-driven brain.

Hence the endless wars and and entrenched poverty in our world - an entirely unreason-able outcome of human relations.

So you think you have proven that reason itself is an illusion?

No; and that's obviously not even what I wanted to prove, your thinking is already confused.

I think I have proven reason, in consideration of universal wellbeing (as in the UNUDHR) is incompatible with "reason" based on the (individual) "freedom" illusion.

(Unregulated individual freedom is an illusion if the world has more than one self-interested individual in it...).

The illusion is the (individual) "freedom" ideology, arrived at by the unreason of instinct-driven thought.

Note: everyone has shouted "that's not fair", sometime in their life; they are reasoning from their own perspective of "fairness".

The solution (other than via resort to un-reasoning conflict) is acceptance of rule of law to adjudicate "fairness", from the point of view of justice determined by the collective, not the self-interested individual.

The quality of the justice is evident in the outcomes in the community (eg, order, tranquility, versus hyper-partisanship).

Point to a single jurisdiction where individual freedom is unregulated.

Indeed, no where, because it MUST be regulated; the question is how, and to what end; ie, for the benefit of the most competitive and most advantaged, or to include the least competitive, and least advantaged.

Quote:

Parliaments are derived from the collective will and t they generate the rule of law.

And the collective will leans toward non-interference, with extreme examples causing hyperpartisanship and inequality, or graded intervention, to eradicate disadvantage.

Quote:

There is no 'hyper-partisanship'

Er......the US of A????

Quote:

and communist dictatorship is certainly not the answer to anything.

But maybe a meritocracy governed by benevolent authority is....provided it knows how run an economy by dividing the functions of the public and private sectors.

The sad thing is you don't even have to give up any more of your personal freedom than you do already; your illusions re freedom are the problem.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #36 - Jan 11^th, 2024 at 6:34pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 6:21pm:

Albo:- “I am your Great Leader, and I bring you the Indigenous Voice!”

The problem is the leader is blinded by mainstream economic orthodoxy, and so hasn't a clue how to eradicate black disadvantage, namely, by getting rid of excruciatingly named "welfare", and ensure everyone can participate in the economy, according to their ability.

1+1 =2

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Frank

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #37 - Jan 11^th, 2024 at 10:06pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 11^th, 2024 at 6:26pm: