Australian Politics Forum - Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024

Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 82918 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Reply #45 - Jan 12^th, 2024 at 12:11pm freediver wrote on Jan 12^th, 2024 at 11:55am: This one doesn't use whole sentences. Truly missing is the force in this one... hold I for him no hope...
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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12141 Gender:	Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Reply #46 - Jan 12^th, 2024 at 12:11pm So...back on topic: banning access to Mt Warning is cultural nonsense, nature is to be enjoyed; but ensuring access to housing and jobs for all ought to be the business of government. Sweet reason, unencumbered by individual instinct, greed or ego.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #47 - Jan 12^th, 2024 at 12:21pm

freediver wrote on Jan 12^th, 2024 at 11:55am:

This one doesn't use whole sentences.

Ah... I keep forgetting your low IQ...you can't connect the dots.

Frank wanted me to cite just ONE person who believes in unregulated personal freedom, and you chimed in with "several are in my head" - a meaningless non sequitur.

...and lo and behold Graps (libertarian extraordinaire) shows up, with an equally meaningless non sequitur, failing to address any of the the arguments.

"Deplorable".

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #48 - Jan 12^th, 2024 at 1:38pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 12^th, 2024 at 12:21pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 12^th, 2024 at 11:55am:

This one doesn't use whole sentences.

Ah... I keep forgetting your low IQ...you can't connect the dots.

Frank wanted me to cite just ONE person who believes in unregulated personal freedom, and you chimed in with "several are in my head" - a meaningless non sequitur.

...and lo and behold Graps (libertarian extraordinaire) shows up, with an equally meaningless non sequitur, failing to address any of the the arguments.

"Deplorable".

Like throwing '17,000 Gazan women and children' into a discussion of the Olde Aboriginale propensity for tribal massacre root and branch - yea - even unto the seventh generation??

Easy as pie arguing with you ..... first you dig a hole, then you fall into it...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Frank

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #49 - Jan 12^th, 2024 at 1:50pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 12^th, 2024 at 12:21pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 12^th, 2024 at 11:55am:

This one doesn't use whole sentences.

Ah... I keep forgetting your low IQ...you can't connect the dots.

Frank wanted me to cite just ONE person who believes in unregulated personal freedom, and you chimed in with "several are in my head" - a meaningless non sequitur.

...and lo and behold Graps (libertarian extraordinaire) shows up, with an equally meaningless non sequitur, failing to address any of the the arguments.

"Deplorable".

So who wants unregulated individual freedom? Who has even the illusion that unregulated, unfettered ndividual freedom is desirable or achievable?

I think your mindless, hyperbolic parroting has run away with you, as usual.

Are you posting here as a free individual or as a result of a collective decision that you are obeying? (Careful, trick question, Son of Xi Ping Pong.)

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freediver

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #50 - Jan 12^th, 2024 at 4:41pm

Frank wrote on Jan 12^th, 2024 at 1:50pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 12^th, 2024 at 12:21pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 12^th, 2024 at 11:55am:

This one doesn't use whole sentences.

Ah... I keep forgetting your low IQ...you can't connect the dots.

Frank wanted me to cite just ONE person who believes in unregulated personal freedom, and you chimed in with "several are in my head" - a meaningless non sequitur.

...and lo and behold Graps (libertarian extraordinaire) shows up, with an equally meaningless non sequitur, failing to address any of the the arguments.

"Deplorable".

So who wants unregulated individual freedom? Who has even the illusion that unregulated, unfettered ndividual freedom is desirable or achievable?

I think your mindless, hyperbolic parroting has run away with you, as usual.

Are you posting here as a free individual or as a result of a collective decision that you are obeying? (Careful, trick question, Son of Xi Ping Pong.)

I suspect it is in his CCP pamphlet that everyone who disagrees with or mocks him does.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #51 - Jan 12^th, 2024 at 4:53pm

True government comes from a mandate of the masses, willingly given and fully informed! We're a semi-autonomous, quasi-anarchic egalitarian assemblage of rules-bound free individuals who vote every three years on our elected representatives, who then sit down and natter out the best way forward, and if we disagree with them we can write to them or vote them out next time around, or even refuse to abide by their dictates under the guiding principle that 'an unjust law – (or decision or policy for that matter) – is no law - (or decision or policy for that matter) - at all'! We don't need no Voices in our heads telling us what to do!!

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #52 - Jan 13^th, 2024 at 11:05am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 12^th, 2024 at 1:38pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 12^th, 2024 at 12:21pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 12^th, 2024 at 11:55am:

This one doesn't use whole sentences.

Ah... I keep forgetting your low IQ...you can't connect the dots.

Frank wanted me to cite just ONE person who believes in unregulated personal freedom, and you chimed in with "several are in my head" - a meaningless non sequitur.

...and lo and behold Graps (libertarian extraordinaire) shows up, with an equally meaningless non sequitur, failing to address any of the the arguments.

"Deplorable".

Like throwing '17,000 Gazan women and children' into a discussion of the Olde Aboriginale propensity for tribal massacre root and branch - yea - even unto the seventh generation??

Easy as pie arguing with you ..... first you dig a hole, then you fall into it...

Blimey, more confusion: Boris was extolling the virtues of
"civilization" compared with the savagery of natives: I merely pointed out we ("civilized" moderns) still have a propensity for savagery, when relating to one another: witness the revenge-based genocide in Gaza - which goes back to the mismanaged partition of Palestine.

Whereas my argument explains why the "natural individual rights" delusion is so widespread, and its consequent egregious effects on good governance requird to promote "domestic tranquility and the general welfare".

Quote:

Easy as pie arguing with you ..... first you dig a hole, then you fall into it...

Talk about self-delusion: you have never won an argument with me, not once. Feel free to cite an example.....

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« Last Edit: Jan 13^th, 2024 at 11:17am by thegreatdivide »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #53 - Jan 13^th, 2024 at 11:40am

Frank wrote on Jan 12^th, 2024 at 1:50pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 12^th, 2024 at 12:21pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 12^th, 2024 at 11:55am:

This one doesn't use whole sentences.

Ah... I keep forgetting your low IQ...you can't connect the dots.

Frank wanted me to cite just ONE person who believes in unregulated personal freedom, and you chimed in with "several are in my head" - a meaningless non sequitur.

...and lo and behold Graps (libertarian extraordinaire) shows up, with an equally meaningless non sequitur, failing to address any of the the arguments.

"Deplorable".

So who wants unregulated individual freedom?

The fools who equate democracy with good governance....not to mention graps who thinks governance itself is the problem.

Quote:

Who has even the illusion that unregulated, unfettered individual freedom is desirable or achievable?

"Democracy" /"freedom values" ideologues who raise the "individual freedom" delusion above collective wellbeing.

Quote:

I think your mindless, hyperbolic parroting has run away with you, as usual.

Ad hominem; you need to explain how the egregious effects of rule by 50%+1 of self-interested "free " individuals, can be ameliorated.

Quote:

Are you posting here as a free individual

Yes, in as much as I can be "free" in a world with billions of other self-interested "free" individuals.

Quote:

or as a result of a collective decision that you are obeying? (Careful, trick question, Son of Xi Ping Pong.)

No trick; I'm arguing for the prosperity of the collective...spot the difference?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48814 At my desk.	Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Reply #54 - Jan 13^th, 2024 at 1:17pm Quote: The fools who equate democracy with good governance Is the CCP internally democratic?
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #55 - Jan 14^th, 2024 at 9:56am

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2024 at 1:17pm:

Quote:

The fools who equate democracy with good governance

Is the CCP internally democratic?

Yes, with decisons made by consensus rather than election.

The CCP has its stated goal of common prosperity, as opposed to the goal of individual "freedom".

But the problem with Western democracy is its illusion of individual freedom which is why eg, lack of housing and above-poverty jobs persists despite elections.

And the basis of that illusion is Western natural individual rights' ideology which itself is delusional; only individual desires exist, not "rights".

As I said to Frank, I'm arguing for the prosperity of the collective, as opposed to his back to front proposition that I was being directed by the collective.

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Frank

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #56 - Jan 14^th, 2024 at 10:13am

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 14^th, 2024 at 9:56am:

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2024 at 1:17pm:

Quote:

The fools who equate democracy with good governance

Is the CCP internally democratic?

Yes, with decisons made by consensus rather than election.

The CCP has its stated goal of common prosperity, as opposed to the goal of individual "freedom".

But the problem with Western democracy is its illusion of individual freedom which is why eg, lack of housing and above-poverty jobs persists despite elections.

And the basis of that illusion is Western natural individual rights' ideology which itself is delusional; only individual desires exist, not "rights".

As I said to Frank, I'm arguing for the prosperity of the collective, as opposed to his back to front proposition that I was being directed by the collective.

Who came up with the common prosperity idea?

On what authority did all those individuals in the CCP ( and there are millions of individuals in the CCP) gave up their own conscience and ability to reason in favour of consensus?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #57 - Jan 14^th, 2024 at 11:31am

Frank wrote on Jan 14^th, 2024 at 10:13am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 14^th, 2024 at 9:56am:

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2024 at 1:17pm:

Quote:

The fools who equate democracy with good governance

Is the CCP internally democratic?

Yes, with decisons made by consensus rather than election.

The CCP has its stated goal of common prosperity, as opposed to the goal of individual "freedom".

But the problem with Western democracy is its illusion of individual freedom which is why eg, lack of housing and above-poverty jobs persists despite elections.

And the basis of that illusion is Western natural individual rights' ideology which itself is delusional; only individual desires exist, not "rights".

As I said to Frank, I'm arguing for the prosperity of the collective, as opposed to his back to front proposition that I was being directed by the collective.

Who came up with the common prosperity idea?

Interestingly it gets a mention in the 18th century Preamble to the US constitution: "....to promote the general welfare...." (ie not just the rich).

Quote:

On what authority did all those individuals in the CCP ( and there are millions of individuals in the CCP) gave up their own conscience and ability to reason in favour of consensus?

On the authority of the Law written into the Constitution after the victory of the "Marxist" revolution, in 1949.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 82918 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Reply #58 - Jan 14^th, 2024 at 11:34am Well - we can all see how well that worked... Now - about Mt Warning... it seems the majority want it re-opened..... let's assume, out of our good graces, that the NSW Opposition is planning to announce such a thing prior to the next election.... that's the entire Northern Rivers sewn up......
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024
Reply #59 - Jan 14^th, 2024 at 11:51am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 14^th, 2024 at 11:34am:

Well - we can all see how well that worked...

Indeed; after some mal-administration of 'collectivized farming' (which Marx hadn't considered), strong CCP management of the 'free market' along with private ownership introduced after reforms in 1980, resulted in the fastest reduction of poverty in history.

Quote:

Now - about Mt Warning... it seems the majority want it re-opened..... let's assume, out of our good graces, that the NSW Opposition is planning to announce such a thing prior to the next election.... that's the entire Northern Rivers sewn up......

Not if cost of living issues still engage the majority.

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