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thegreatdivide

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Re: DEI
Reply #30 - Jan 19^th, 2024 at 1:09pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 12:45pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 12:34pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 12:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 12:21pm:

Quote:

There will always be the unlucky, who will bear the instinctive primal motivating forces of envy and revenge - as we all do.

There will always be the less competitive, who will nevertheless prosper in a functional economy which works for all.

As opposed to a 'survival of the fittest' economy.

Interesting to see a group of billionaires at Davos urging politicians to increases taxes on wealth globally (envious???), to avoid the destructive inequality and economic and ecological collapse on the horizon.

There will always be those born physically and intellectually unlucky and those born into dysfunctional families.

There will always be those who are triggered by envy and revenge.

Ah..the ugly, closed 'survival of the fittest/ "freedom" RW mind on full display.

Unlucky or disadvantaged - whatever.

The sense of fairness demands accomodation of this reality.

A sense of fairness is not driven/"triggered" by envy, though it might drive revenge (like the French Revolution's revenge on the greedy/thought-less advantaged).

People want what others have -

(O ..primitive 'survival of the fittest' mind...)

Wrong; I don't care what Musk has, since he can look after himself, I care about my own prosperity, and I loathe systemic poverty.

Is that too difficult to understand ---even despite your crippled RW brain?

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that's true regardless of the political or economic system(s) governing the people.

I just proved your premise is wrong.

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Have you mixed regularly with people over the years?

Yes. And?.....

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11374 Gender:	Re: DEI Reply #31 - Jan 19^th, 2024 at 1:32pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 1:09pm: Quote: that's true regardless of the political or economic system(s) governing the people. I just proved your premise is wrong. What was your proof?
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thegreatdivide

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Re: DEI
Reply #32 - Jan 19^th, 2024 at 1:43pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 1:32pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 1:09pm:

Quote:

that's true regardless of the political or economic system(s) governing the people.

I just proved your premise is wrong.

What was your proof?

Classic crippled-brain blindness, you missed it:

"The universal sense of fairness demands accomodation of (advantage and disadvantage)".

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: DEI
Reply #33 - Jan 19^th, 2024 at 2:58pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 1:32pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 1:09pm:

Quote:

that's true regardless of the political or economic system(s) governing the people.

I just proved your premise is wrong.

What was your proof?

Classic crippled-brain blindness, you missed it:

"The universal sense of fairness demands accomodation of (advantage and disadvantage)".

The universal sense of fairness, eh... That's your proof??!!

What's it when it's at home? Armchair self-righteousness?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: DEI
Reply #34 - Jan 20^th, 2024 at 1:12pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 2:58pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 1:32pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 1:09pm:

Quote:

that's true regardless of the political or economic system(s) governing the people.

I just proved your premise is wrong.

What was your proof?

Classic crippled-brain blindness, you missed it:

"The universal sense of fairness demands accomodation of (advantage and disadvantage)".

The universal sense of fairness, eh... That's your proof??!!

Yes, it's why we have government, to "promote the general welfare" , and to avoid chaos between self-interested individuals, (including those who "want what others have", according to you..)

Quote:

What's it when it's at home? Armchair self-righteousness?

No, see above: it's the basis of the general desire for government to create order out of the chaos of unregulated individual self-interest and destructive competitive instincts.

But deduded 'natural individiual rights' minds like yours are making good governance near impossible; wars, ecological collapse, inequality and entrenched poverty around the globe are reaching catastrophic levels.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: DEI
Reply #35 - Jan 20^th, 2024 at 1:36pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 20^th, 2024 at 1:12pm:

But deduded 'natural individiual rights' minds like yours are making good governance near impossible; wars, ecological collapse, inequality and entrenched poverty around the globe are reaching catastrophic levels.

Modern political systems where individual rights are not recognised are collapsing.

Why is that?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: DEI
Reply #36 - Jan 20^th, 2024 at 1:56pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 20^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 20^th, 2024 at 1:12pm:

But deduded 'natural individiual rights' minds like yours are making good governance near impossible; wars, ecological collapse, inequality and entrenched poverty around the globe are reaching catastrophic levels.

Modern political systems where individual rights are not recognised are collapsing.

Why is that?

1. you need to differentiate global emergencies (eg ecological, war), from national social breakdown.

2. China is demonstrably more internally stable than the US (where serious commentators are concerned about the possibility of civil war); but even so, a sense of fairness for all - not just for the most advantaged - is needed to create good government engendering universal prosperity, in ALL nations.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 44008 Gender:	Re: DEI Reply #37 - Feb 17^th, 2024 at 4:24pm
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aquascoot

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Re: DEI
Reply #38 - Feb 17^th, 2024 at 5:08pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 20^th, 2024 at 1:12pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 2:58pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 1:32pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 19^th, 2024 at 1:09pm:

Quote:

that's true regardless of the political or economic system(s) governing the people.

I just proved your premise is wrong.

What was your proof?

Classic crippled-brain blindness, you missed it:

"The universal sense of fairness demands accomodation of (advantage and disadvantage)".

The universal sense of fairness, eh... That's your proof??!!

Yes, it's why we have government, to "promote the general welfare" , and to avoid chaos between self-interested individuals, (including those who "want what others have", according to you..)

Quote:

What's it when it's at home? Armchair self-righteousness?

No, see above: it's the basis of the general desire for government to create order out of the chaos of unregulated individual self-interest and destructive competitive instincts

[/highlight].

But deduded 'natural individiual rights' minds like yours are making good governance near impossible; wars, ecological collapse, inequality and entrenched poverty around the globe are reaching catastrophic levels.

destructive competitive instincts ?

these are the most wonderful things

every thing wonderful is produced by the private sector and nothing by government

samsung and apple compete and we get the reward
toyota and honda compete and we get the reward
i compete with my fellow farmers to breed the best cows
rio and bhp compete and we all get rich
tradesmen compete and you can get a plimber at midnight

you are off your rocker

everything that works is thanks to the private sector

everything that doesnt...health care, schools, criminal justice, welfare is thanks to big government not having to compete and public servants gossiping at the water fountain Grin

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 83302 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: DEI Reply #39 - Feb 17^th, 2024 at 6:50pm Now the D.E.I.'s got a chopper in the air Wake up screaming like I'm back over there Learned a thing or two from Charlie don't you know You better stay away from Copperhead Road
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: DEI
Reply #40 - Feb 17^th, 2024 at 7:20pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 20^th, 2024 at 1:56pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 20^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 20^th, 2024 at 1:12pm:

But deduded 'natural individiual rights' minds like yours are making good governance near impossible; wars, ecological collapse, inequality and entrenched poverty around the globe are reaching catastrophic levels.

Modern political systems where individual rights are not recognised are collapsing.

Why is that?

1. you need to differentiate global emergencies (eg ecological, war), from national social breakdown.

2. China is demonstrably more internally stable than the US (where serious commentators are concerned about the possibility of civil war); but even so, a sense of fairness for all - not just for the most advantaged - is needed to create good government engendering universal prosperity, in ALL nations.

National social breakdown works toward the generation of wars for the simple reason that 'others' (non-inclusive/not included Mk I) will perceive wrongly that their time has come to strike down the unbeliever using their personal sovereign choices in the matter. Ecologically the ideology has stumbled along now for several decades without a single result.

China IS demonstrably more stable - if you misbehave it's a bullet to the back of the head with the bill sent to your family, and your body parts harvested for organ donation. Ah - the benefits of surrendering your personal choices and personal sovereignty and rights to government - Hitler and Stalin etc would have been proud. Just think of the possibilities had my cardio gone ahead with heart transplant.... he thought I was worth it..... using my personal sovereignty I said it should, if necessary, go to someone younger and more deserving - IF it came to that.... but that's just me....

So you would be content with a sense of fairness? Easy .... we can give you a sense of fairness any time .... now for genuine fairness we need to exclude Inclusion™ etc... but you don't need to know about that while we mushroom you ....

Cheesy

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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thegreatdivide

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Re: DEI
Reply #41 - Feb 18^th, 2024 at 12:02pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 17^th, 2024 at 7:20pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 20^th, 2024 at 1:56pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 20^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 20^th, 2024 at 1:12pm:

But deduded 'natural individiual rights' minds like yours are making good governance near impossible; wars, ecological collapse, inequality and entrenched poverty around the globe are reaching catastrophic levels.

Modern political systems where individual rights are not recognised are collapsing.

Why is that?

1. you need to differentiate global emergencies (eg ecological, war), from national social breakdown.

2. China is demonstrably more internally stable than the US (where serious commentators are concerned about the possibility of civil war); but even so, a sense of fairness for all - not just for the most advantaged - is needed to create good government engendering universal prosperity, in ALL nations.

National social breakdown works toward the generation of wars

??

WW1 was caused by a breakdown of diplomacy between nations competing for empire, with stable social conditions at home.

Quote:

for the simple reason...

It wasn't simple, the geopolitical forces were complex...

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...that 'others' (non-inclusive/not included Mk I) will perceive wrongly that their time has come to strike down the unbeliever using their personal sovereign choices in the matter.

"Clash of civilizations"? (The Iranians hated the US when the US gave sanctuary to the despised deposed Shah).

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Ecologically the ideology has stumbled along now for several decades without a single result.

I have ecological breakdown caused by economics as usual in mind (and if the climate scientists are correct....).

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China IS demonstrably more stable - if you misbehave it's a bullet to the back of the head with the bill sent to your family, and your body parts harvested for organ donation.

"Misbehave" ....by calling for the overthrow of the nation's government?

You could choose to get a life, and prosper under the one-party 'socialist' government, rather than emulate the deluded "freedom" ideologues in the US, rioting in the nation's Capitol trying to overturn the election results.

Quote:

Ah - the benefits of surrendering your personal choices and personal sovereignty and rights to government

Yes they are considerable as outlined above, so long as the government sees engendering common prosperity as its task.

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Hitler and Stalin etc would have been proud. Just think of the possibilities had my cardio gone ahead with heart transplant.... he thought I was worth it..... using my personal sovereignty I said it should, if necessary, go to someone younger and more deserving - IF it came to that.... but that's just me....

H and S had international domination in mind; the CCP isn't interested in exporting China's system of government.

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So you would be content with a sense of fairness?

I certainly call for the eradication of poverty and war....fair?

Quote:

Easy .... we can give you a sense of fairness any time .... now for genuine fairness we need to exclude Inclusion™ etc... but you don't need to know about that while we mushroom you ....

You are one confused bunny: inclusion means establishing universal above-poverty participation (whether trannies can get special acknowledgement on their birth certificates or not).

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Frank

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Re: DEI
Reply #42 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 2:14pm

A hospital has admitted to cutting six people’s limbs off by mistake in the past three years.

York and Scarborough Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust confirmed six patients had limbs amputated due to medical mistakes over a three year period.

This is the highest number of any NHS trust across the UK.

Four amputations were performed in 2020 and another two were carried out in 2021 at the Yorkshire hospital.

https://metro.co.uk/2024/03/05/yorkshire-hospital-cuts-off-six-peoples-limbs-mis...

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Frank

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Re: DEI
Reply #43 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 2:47pm

A hospital has admitted to cutting six people’s limbs off by mistake in the past three years.

York and Scarborough Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust confirmed six patients had limbs amputated due to medical mistakes over a three year period.

This is the highest number of any NHS trust across the UK.

Four amputations were performed in 2020 and another two were carried out in 2021 at the Yorkshire hospital.

https://metro.co.uk/2024/03/05/yorkshire-hospital-cuts-off-six-peoples-limbs-mis...

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Sir Eoin O Fada Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1861 New England, NSW Gender:	Re: DEI Reply #44 - Mar 9^th, 2024 at 11:49pm The great divide said “ Why was it that, historically whites enslaved blacks and not the other way around?]” Actually they did and sold them for export to whites, Slavers in modern times were Arabs and native Africans, as black as the people they were selling.
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