Australian Politics Forum - Terrorist groups should be banned

freediver

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Re: Terrorist groups should be banned
Reply #75 - Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:11pm

Quote:

The UNSC - with 99.5 % of the world's military force speaking with one voice, is not a "committee".

Yes it is. When was the last time they forced a country to go to war?

Countries still go to war on their own decision, with or without UNSC approval. The UNSC is merely a way for countries that wish to, to "officially" give themselves permission to do so. It does not police war in any effective way. It merely rubber stamps it if there is enough alignment between the countries going to war and UNSC membership. If a country starts a war that is considered "illegal" by the UNSC, it cannot do anything about it, other than rubberstamping a decision by some other willing country that wants or is forced by circumstance to enter the war on the other side.

That is why all your complaints about "legality" are fairly meaningless. You are appealing to an authority that does not actually exist. I am not sure if you latch onto the UN out of fear of the chaos that you think reality would invoke, or because you are one of those rule lovers who thinks paperwork trumps reality, but it is tiresome watching you invoke them constantly.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 105316 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Terrorist groups should be banned Reply #76 - Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:28pm Dear FD, the UN had a peace keeping force in the Sinai desert and I think there's one on the border now with Lebanon. What about a UN force in Gaza - would that help matters?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49074 At my desk.	Re: Terrorist groups should be banned Reply #77 - Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:46pm Bobby. wrote on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:28pm: Dear FD, the UN had a peace keeping force in the Sinai desert and I think there's one on the border now with Lebanon. What about a UN force in Gaza - would that help matters? Sure. They could give blue helmets to the Israeli soldiers.
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Bobby.

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Re: Terrorist groups should be banned
Reply #78 - Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:49pm

freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:46pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:28pm:

Dear FD,
the UN had a peace keeping force in the Sinai desert and I think there's one
on the border now with Lebanon.

What about a UN force in Gaza -
would that help matters?

Sure. They could give blue helmets to the Israeli soldiers.

The UN would have some Jews and some Pallys in the force to keep it honest.

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freediver

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Re: Terrorist groups should be banned
Reply #79 - Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:55pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:49pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:46pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:28pm:

Dear FD,
the UN had a peace keeping force in the Sinai desert and I think there's one
on the border now with Lebanon.

What about a UN force in Gaza -
would that help matters?

Sure. They could give blue helmets to the Israeli soldiers.

The UN would have some Jews and some Pallys in the force to keep it honest.

Sounds effectual Bobby. Would it be lead by a committee of military academics?

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Bobby.

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Re: Terrorist groups should be banned
Reply #80 - Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:57pm

freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:55pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:49pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:46pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:28pm:

Dear FD,
the UN had a peace keeping force in the Sinai desert and I think there's one
on the border now with Lebanon.

What about a UN force in Gaza -
would that help matters?

Sure. They could give blue helmets to the Israeli soldiers.

The UN would have some Jews and some Pallys in the force to keep it honest.

Sounds effectual Bobby. Would it be lead by a committee of military academics?

Yeah - guys like Brian - that would work. Undecided

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freediver

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Re: Terrorist groups should be banned
Reply #81 - Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:58pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:57pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:55pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:49pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:46pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:28pm:

Dear FD,
the UN had a peace keeping force in the Sinai desert and I think there's one
on the border now with Lebanon.

What about a UN force in Gaza -
would that help matters?

Sure. They could give blue helmets to the Israeli soldiers.

The UN would have some Jews and some Pallys in the force to keep it honest.

Sounds effectual Bobby. Would it be lead by a committee of military academics?

Yeah - guys like Brian - that would work. Undecided

You would have to start a war crimes committee to investigate the disappearance of the extended families of every Palestinian soldier who fought with the UN.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 105316 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Terrorist groups should be banned Reply #82 - Jan 21^st, 2024 at 4:01pm freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:58pm: You would have to start a war crimes committee to investigate the disappearance of the extended families of every Palestinian soldier who fought with the UN. Nah - the Jewish and Pally UN soldiers would all sit around a campfire singing Kumbaya.
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John Smith

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Re: Terrorist groups should be banned
Reply #83 - Jan 21^st, 2024 at 5:27pm

freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 6:44am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 20^th, 2024 at 9:12pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 20^th, 2024 at 8:57pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 20^th, 2024 at 8:01pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 20^th, 2024 at 4:43pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 20^th, 2024 at 3:47pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 20^th, 2024 at 2:31pm:

Quote:

Did you miss #33? Israel is an illegal terrorist state, unless and until it exists alongside a Palestinian state as defined in UN res 242.

It already exists alongside a Palestinian state.

See how your blind ideology leads you into error?

It exists alongside illegally occupied territory - which is why Israel isn't and cannot be secure, and why it's now before the ICJ defending itself against a charge of genocide.

Quote:

Two even. The fact that they are too busy trying to slaughter Jews to get their poo together does not make Israel illegal or terrorist. You share John's aversion to reality.

GIGO; you started with the wrong premise, as explained above.

I don't think the Palestinians are illegally occupying Palestine.

That's because you're an idiot.

Do you think they are John?

Absolutely they are

Are you sure about that John?

I'm sure you think you're clever whilst making an ass off yourself. Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian territory. You changing them around only highlight how dishonest you are. Sure, it's born out of your inability to defend your argument in the first place, but dishonest nevertheless.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Terrorist groups should be banned
Reply #84 - Jan 21^st, 2024 at 5:49pm

freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 3:11pm:

Quote:

The UNSC - with 99.5 % of the world's military force speaking with one voice, is not a "committee".

Yes it is. When was the last time they forced a country to go to war?

The UNSC has never operated with one voice (due to the veto); but in the case of a sovereign Palestine alongside Israel, it could - because all SC members are on board with UN 242.

In other words, if eg, Iran was shown to be still arming groups dedicated to Israel's destruction (after the establishment of Palestine), then Iran's leaders could be identified before the entire UNGA and all the world's media, judged, and progressively eliminated via smart drone tech until the state desisted from acting against UN defined international law. .

[Note: for the first time in history, the leaders can be taken out, rather than via destroying entire nations in all out war, as in WW2. Technology has now advanced far enough to allow identification of individuals' whereabouts at any time]

btw , it was gratifying (to me) to hear Biden (just now, on radio) thinking outside the box re securuty: he noted there are several UN member states who don't have militaries, and Palestine could be another of them, to allay Israeli fears.

Quote:

Countries still go to war on their own decision, with or without UNSC approval.

Addressed above: solving the security issue involved in UN res 242 could usher in a new era re war making; sure - Russia vetoed a peace plan in Ukraine - though reports say the US also hindered a peace plan.....the UNSC veto is a disaster, but it need not wreck Palestine-Israel security because all 5 members would be on the same page.

Quote:

The UNSC is merely a way for countries that wish to, to "officially" give themselves permission to do so.

In practice, yes, the UNSC is usually f**kd by the veto; but in the case of Palestine-Israel, all SC members would agree since they all support UN res 242.

Like I said, progressive elimination of the leaders of criminal nations (ie those ignoring internatoinal law) would be very effective in bringing those nations back into line...

Quote:

That is why all your complaints about "legality" are fairly meaningless.

I have dealt with the effects of the veto, above; and yes, war is still 'legal' (even though insane in the age of MAD -how much damage has to happen in Ukraine before the war stops - or - leads to WW3, a nuclear war....)

Quote:

You are appealing to an authority that does not actually exist.

Correct, but the authority that the UNSC could bring to Palestine-Israel, given the 5 members of the UNSC are in agreement re UN res 242 (if Biden grows a pair...) is achievable.

Quote:

I am not sure if you latch onto the UN out of fear of the chaos that you think reality would invoke,

I loathe the insanity, death and destruction of war which is always happening around us; nothing to do with fear of what might happen, it's happening now - and non-stop since WW2 --because of the UNSC veto.

Quote:

or because you are one of those rule lovers who thinks paperwork trumps reality, but it is tiresome watching you invoke them constantly.

That particular posited 'reason' is wrong, though certainly rule of law (..."paperwork", thanks for the chuckle, but you forgot the associated law enforcement) is preferable to chaos, so don't you worry about that (...as a certain Oz politician used to say).

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« Last Edit: Jan 21^st, 2024 at 5:57pm by thegreatdivide »

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 84767 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Terrorist groups should be banned Reply #85 - Jan 21^st, 2024 at 6:22pm Round 'em up and ship 'em out....
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philperth2010

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Re: Terrorist groups should be banned
Reply #86 - Jan 22^nd, 2024 at 7:50am

freediver wrote on Jan 20^th, 2024 at 3:45pm:

Quote:

The money does not get sent to a bank account in Gaza FFS

How do they pay for everything locally? Cash?

You're just making this up as you go along, aren't you?

Quote:

The money does not get sent to a bank account in Gaza FFS....The U.N. and Red Cross are provided with the funds to send truck loads of humanitarian aid into the camps they run inside Gaza....Should all humanitarian aid to Gaza be cut off FD???

Are you serious or are you just trolling....What can Palastinians buy locally FD....Do you really believe the U.N. and Red Cross give cash to refugees to spend at the local Woollies....Do you believe the aid comes in the form of ammunition and weapons....Do you have any evidence the U.N or Red Cross are corrupt and supporting HAMAS FD....You're just making this up as you go along, aren't you....What good would cash be to refugees in Gaza FD???

Roll Eyes

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« Last Edit: Jan 22^nd, 2024 at 9:15am by philperth2010 »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Terrorist groups should be banned
Reply #87 - Jan 22^nd, 2024 at 8:44am

The whole world thinks Netanyahu is a terrorist.

And FD has declined to address my post (#84) outlining how and why the security of both states can be guaranteed by the UNSC, despite the veto.

Note: Israel was created on other people's land, through a UN vote on the Palestine Partition Plan; justice requires the UN establish the other portion of the partition plan.

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philperth2010

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Re: Terrorist groups should be banned
Reply #88 - Jan 22^nd, 2024 at 9:14am

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2024 at 8:44am:

The whole world thinks Netanyahu is a terrorist.

And FD has declined to address my post (#84) outlining how and why the security of both states can be guaranteed by the UNSC, despite the veto.

Note: Israel was created on other people's land, through a UN vote on the Palestine Partition Plan; justice requires the UN establish the other portion of the partition plan.

FD is more upset because apparently the UN and Red Cross are providing cash to HAMAS to spend at the local IGA and gun shop in Gaza....The cash is delivered as humanitarian aid in big trucks crossing the border....Why hasn't FD reported this to the authorities....Is FD a terrorist sympathizer???

Huh

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Frank

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Re: Terrorist groups should be banned
Reply #89 - Jan 22^nd, 2024 at 9:31am

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2024 at 8:44am:

The whole world thinks Netanyahu is a terrorist.

And FD has declined to address my post (#84) outlining how and why the security of both states can be guaranteed by the UNSC, despite the veto.

Note: Israel was created on other people's land, through a UN vote on the Palestine Partition Plan; justice requires the UN establish the other portion of the partition plan.

Palestine was created on other people's land.
As was the Roman Empire itself which designated Palestine.
So was every single Muslim country, as was England, Australia, NZ, every country on the Americas, etc, etc.

The answer to your posts about the UNSC IS the same: you ARE out of your mind.

Who has the power to confer such powers on the UNSC? What is the source of the power to confer powers on the UNSC?
Who would command a UNSC military force? Who would finance it and who would be accountable for its actions? Accountable to whom, by what mechanism?

Who is appointing the UNSC personnel to have this power and who is overseeing the proper exercise of such powers by them.
Who is the UNSC accountable to? How?
Any checks, balances, recall and replace UNSC powers?

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