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american culture (Read 2133 times)
Brian Ross
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Re: american culture
Reply #30 - Feb 3rd, 2024 at 2:49pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 2:36pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 2:22pm:
Quote:
The colonial mindset was ended by the Eisenhower administration which influenced the UN on the matter. 


Really?  You seem to have sources of information that I've never heard of.  Australia's "Colonial mindset" ended because of Australia's criticism of South Africa apartheid.  They really could do that when holding onto PNG, so they jettisoned PNG and criticised Cape Town.


The Roosevelt and Truman administrations, and later the Eisenhower administration told Churchill that the days of colonialism were over - that once the war was over, Britain was to dismantle its empire by granting independence to any colony that requested it.


They had already supposedly granted it to Australia in 1901 when Australia became a Federation and a self-governing Domion.  They also ceased it for New Zealand and Canada. Empire means different things for different people.  Australia kept it's Empire in PNG and the Islands until 1975. A long time after the Roosevelt, Truman and Eisenhower administrations.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Quote:
Colonialism's death knell occurred in 1956 when Eisenhower rebuked the British and the French over the Suez Crisis and demanded their withdrawal.


The message seems to have taken quite a while to sink through, don't you think?  Tsk, tsk tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Karnal
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Re: american culture
Reply #31 - Feb 3rd, 2024 at 5:18pm
 
Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 12:46pm:
Karnal wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 10:43pm:
Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 10:34pm:
Why move?
Australia is a much better place, despite certain shortcomings.


The old boy hates the place. He thinks we're Pakis.

You can't please everybody, dear.

Why would anyone ever think that \you were Pakis?


Because the old boy, AKA Frank or Sore End, has Superior Culture. The Pakis are an inferior subspecies.

Alas, we're only "spiritually" Pakistani. This is due to "resentment ten rupee gimme."

The old boy, you see, would prefer a little more respect and gratitude for flying down to Australia to disseminate his culture.

This isn't racist or anything. The old boy calls himself a "culturalist". His culture is universal. It's best summed up in his much-cited aphorism, "colonialism ended far too soon".

This can be changed to suit the circumstances. He recently used it in reference to slavery, which he would prefer to see reimposed on the African American population of the American deep south as a solution to their crime problem.

In Australia, he advocates a form of mass incarceration. Our blacks, you see, can't (or won't) work. Instead, they should be incarcerated, have their children placed in foster care and, where possible, civilised.

He remains somewhat pessimistic on the odds of the latter, but we should not want for trying. That, you see is what superior culture is all about. The old boy calls this "the white man's burden".

The old boy was all for the invasion of Iraq in order to civilise them. Three years later, he saw the folly of his views. It was a momentary lapse of judgement. Iraqis can never be civilised, he said, because of Islam.

Too bad, too sad, 280,000 deaths and a few trillion later, he conceded Islam to be only one criteria. Ultimately the Iraqis, like the Pakis, like the blacks, and like a few other types such as Chows, cannot be civilised because they're tinted.

But that shouldn't stop us trying. If you draw alternative views to the above conclusion, you're generally tinted, or have some form of the tar brush in you.

Thus, I'm a Paki Bastard. Greggery's a Macedonian Turd. JS is a Calabrian Dago. The only two who have gotten away without being chastised as tinted in some way are Brian, Milk Monitor, and Mothra, Frightbat. Occasionally, she's a Tinted Bint too, so that's not always right.
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Sir Eoin O Fada
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Re: american culture
Reply #32 - Feb 3rd, 2024 at 5:43pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 5:37pm:
Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 5:20pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 4:30pm:
americans are belligerent, self centered, tribal, narrow minded and aggressive.

They are also warm hearted, honest, hospitable, loyal, patriotic and faithful friends; their country is also a repository of English language as is much of their spelling.


Really?  I suppose from the 18th century when they were established but English has moved on since  then.  I was just reading a thread, on another forum, about what would happen if the US and the UK were mutually unintelligible.  George Bernard Shaw once quipped that the US and the UK were divided by a common language.  I wonder what he was referring to?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Actually the quip is usually attributed to Winston Churchill..
As regards the spelling they didn’t take up the French influenced ‘our’ words preferring to retain the English spellings.
Although we have dropped the ‘u’ from doctour we still retain it in ‘labour’ etc.
The US armed services retained/adopted the English salute whereas our services , other than the Navy, use the German salute.
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« Last Edit: Feb 3rd, 2024 at 5:52pm by Sir Eoin O Fada »  

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MeisterEckhart
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Re: american culture
Reply #33 - Feb 3rd, 2024 at 6:30pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 2:49pm:
Quote:
Colonialism's death knell occurred in 1956 when Eisenhower rebuked the British and the French over the Suez Crisis and demanded their withdrawal.


The message seems to have taken quite a while to sink through, don't you think?  Tsk, tsk tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

11 years to end an empire, at the insistence of the US, is a long time to you?

Many law suits take longer than that!
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Brian Ross
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Re: american culture
Reply #34 - Feb 3rd, 2024 at 7:12pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 6:30pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 2:49pm:
Quote:
Colonialism's death knell occurred in 1956 when Eisenhower rebuked the British and the French over the Suez Crisis and demanded their withdrawal.


The message seems to have taken quite a while to sink through, don't you think?  Tsk, tsk tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

11 years to end an empire, at the insistence of the US, is a long time to you?

Many law suits take longer than that!


So, you acknowledge the correctness, otherwise, of what I have said, Eckhard?

People expect instant obedience to a Government directive. not the the 30 years it took Canberra to act on Roosevellt's directive.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: american culture
Reply #35 - Feb 3rd, 2024 at 7:17pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 7:12pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 6:30pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 2:49pm:
Quote:
Colonialism's death knell occurred in 1956 when Eisenhower rebuked the British and the French over the Suez Crisis and demanded their withdrawal.


The message seems to have taken quite a while to sink through, don't you think?  Tsk, tsk tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

11 years to end an empire, at the insistence of the US, is a long time to you?

Many law suits take longer than that!


So, you acknowledge the correctness, otherwise, of what I have said, Eckhard?

People expect instant obedience to a Government directive. not the the 30 years it took Canberra to act on Roosevellt's directive.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

From 1945 to 1956 is as instant as it gets when dismantling an empire, I'd say.

How many empires of history, do you know of, that were ended by a diplomatic finger-wagging from a foreign head of state?

Before WW2, the Roosevelt administration drew up plans to attack the British Empire in Canada.

The 30 years it may have taken Australia is because the US allowed it - it was not an act of defiance by the Australian government.
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Frank
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Re: american culture
Reply #36 - Feb 3rd, 2024 at 7:32pm
 
Karnal wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 5:18pm:
Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 12:46pm:
Karnal wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 10:43pm:
Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 10:34pm:
Why move?
Australia is a much better place, despite certain shortcomings.


The old boy hates the place. He thinks we're Pakis.

You can't please everybody, dear.

Why would anyone ever think that \you were Pakis?


Because the old boy, AKA Frank or Sore End, has Superior Culture. The Pakis are an inferior subspecies.

Alas, we're only "spiritually" Pakistani. This is due to "resentment ten rupee gimme."

The old boy, you see, would prefer a little more respect and gratitude for flying down to Australia to disseminate his culture.

This isn't racist or anything. The old boy calls himself a "culturalist". His culture is universal. It's best summed up in his much-cited aphorism, "colonialism ended far too soon".

This can be changed to suit the circumstances. He recently used it in reference to slavery, which he would prefer to see reimposed on the African American population of the American deep south as a solution to their crime problem.

In Australia, he advocates a form of mass incarceration. Our blacks, you see, can't (or won't) work. Instead, they should be incarcerated, have their children placed in foster care and, where possible, civilised.

He remains somewhat pessimistic on the odds of the latter, but we should not want for trying. That, you see is what superior culture is all about. The old boy calls this "the white man's burden".

The old boy was all for the invasion of Iraq in order to civilise them. Three years later, he saw the folly of his views. It was a momentary lapse of judgement. Iraqis can never be civilised, he said, because of Islam.

Too bad, too sad, 280,000 deaths and a few trillion later, he conceded Islam to be only one criteria. Ultimately the Iraqis, like the Pakis, like the blacks, and like a few other types such as Chows, cannot be civilised because they're tinted.

But that shouldn't stop us trying. If you draw alternative views to the above conclusion, you're generally tinted, or have some form of the tar brush in you.

Thus, I'm a Paki Bastard. Greggery's a Macedonian Turd. JS is a Calabrian Dago. The only two who have gotten away without being chastised as tinted in some way are Brian, Milk Monitor, and Mothra, Frightbat. Occasionally, she's a Tinted Bint too, so that's not always right.


Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Gawd, it's gnawing at your rancorous heart, doesn't it, wee shalwar sniffer.
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Brian Ross
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Re: american culture
Reply #37 - Feb 3rd, 2024 at 7:47pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 7:17pm:
From 1945 to 1956 is as instant as it gets when dismantling an empire, I'd say.


Except it took Canberra 30 years... Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Quote:

How many empires of history, do you know of, that were ended by a diplomatic finger-wagging from a foreign head of state?


None.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Quote:
Before WW2, the Roosevelt administration drew up plans to attack the British Empire in Canada.


They drew up plans to attack everybody, Plan Orange was for the Japanese Empire.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Quote:
The 30 years it may have taken Australia is because the US allowed it - it was not an act of defiance by the Australian government.


Funny, the US signed a security guarantee with Canberra and Wellington, funny way of disapproving of Empire... Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: american culture
Reply #38 - Feb 3rd, 2024 at 8:01pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 7:47pm:
Quote:
The 30 years it may have taken Australia is because the US allowed it - it was not an act of defiance by the Australian government.


Funny, the US signed a security guarantee with Canberra and Wellington, funny way of disapproving of Empire... Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

ANZUS did not incorporate Australia and NZ into an imperial state.

And ANZUS was not and is not a security guarantee. It only commits the US to consult with Canberra and Wellington.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: american culture
Reply #39 - Feb 3rd, 2024 at 8:05pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 7:47pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 7:17pm:
From 1945 to 1956 is as instant as it gets when dismantling an empire, I'd say.


Except it took Canberra 30 years... Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


It took Canberra as long as the US required it to take.

Having its staunchest ally in PNG was clearly in US interests.
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Brian Ross
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Re: american culture
Reply #40 - Feb 3rd, 2024 at 8:22pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 8:01pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 7:47pm:
Quote:
The 30 years it may have taken Australia is because the US allowed it - it was not an act of defiance by the Australian government.


Funny, the US signed a security guarantee with Canberra and Wellington, funny way of disapproving of Empire... Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

ANZUS did not incorporate Australia and NZ into an imperial state.

And ANZUS was not and is not a security guarantee. It only commits the US to consult with Canberra and Wellington.


An interesting point there, Eckhart.  ANZUS was treated as a security guarantee and sold as a security guarantee by successive Australian Governments for decades.  Today, AUKUS has superseded it and that definitely is a security guarantee,  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

ANZUS definitely locked us and the Kiwis into a US Imperial State, why else did we ask when we could down whenever Washington asked us to jump?  We ended up in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq at the whim of Washington.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Feb 3rd, 2024 at 9:15pm by Brian Ross »  

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Brian Ross
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Re: american culture
Reply #41 - Feb 3rd, 2024 at 8:25pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 8:05pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 7:47pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 7:17pm:
From 1945 to 1956 is as instant as it gets when dismantling an empire, I'd say.


Except it took Canberra 30 years... Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


It took Canberra as long as the US required it to take.

Having its staunchest ally in PNG was clearly in US interests.


Was it?  Really?  Why then did Washington refuse Australian requests for aid in the West New Guinea dispute of 1960 and East Timor in 1999?  When we needed assurances from our vaunted Security Guarantee, Washington refused us.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: american culture
Reply #42 - Feb 3rd, 2024 at 8:51pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 8:25pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 8:05pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 7:47pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 7:17pm:
From 1945 to 1956 is as instant as it gets when dismantling an empire, I'd say.


Except it took Canberra 30 years... Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


It took Canberra as long as the US required it to take.

Having its staunchest ally in PNG was clearly in US interests.


Was it?  Really?  Why then did Washington refuse Australian requests for aid in the West New Guinea dispute of 1960 and East Timor in 1999?  When we needed assurances from our vaunted Security Guarantee, Washington refused us.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Yes, Australia is the US staunchest ally but that doesn't mean the US can't say no to Australia's requests.

You're confirming that the 'much-vaunted' security guarantee commits the US to nothing other than consultation.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: american culture
Reply #43 - Feb 3rd, 2024 at 8:57pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 8:22pm:
ANZUS definitely locked us and the Kiwis into a US Imperial State, why else did we ask when we could down whever Washington asked us to jump?  We ended up in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq at the whim of Washington.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Both Australia and NZ are not locked in to any materiel support for the US.

However, successive governments in Australia have never refused any US request for support.

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Brian Ross
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Re: american culture
Reply #44 - Feb 3rd, 2024 at 9:19pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 8:51pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 8:25pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 8:05pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 7:47pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 7:17pm:
From 1945 to 1956 is as instant as it gets when dismantling an empire, I'd say.


Except it took Canberra 30 years... Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


It took Canberra as long as the US required it to take.

Having its staunchest ally in PNG was clearly in US interests.


Was it?  Really?  Why then did Washington refuse Australian requests for aid in the West New Guinea dispute of 1960 and East Timor in 1999?  When we needed assurances from our vaunted Security Guarantee, Washington refused us.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Yes, Australia is the US staunchest ally but that doesn't mean the US can't say no to Australia's requests.

You're confirming that the 'much-vaunted' security guarantee commits the US to nothing other than consultation.


*SIGH*  I wish someone would tell the Australian Liberal and National Parties that, Eckhart.  They seem to assume we have an insurance policy with Washington and we need to pay the premium in blood periodically. Just in case a Yellow Peril will sail over the horizon.   Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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