Australian Politics Forum - american culture

Sir Eoin O Fada

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Re: american culture
Reply #60 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 9:13am

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 4^th, 2024 at 12:02pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2024 at 7:06am:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2024 at 9:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2024 at 8:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2024 at 8:22pm:

ANZUS definitely locked us and the Kiwis into a US Imperial State, why else did we ask when we could down whever Washington asked us to jump? We ended up in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq at the whim of Washington. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Both Australia and NZ are not locked in to any materiel support for the US.

However, successive governments in Australia have never refused any US request for support.

Funny that, it's almost if we do as we told by Washington. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Since WW2, in the interests of national security and cultural sensibilities, it has always been perceived by successive Australian governments to align itself with, and staunchly support, US interests - not so much with NZ, which aligns itself culturally with Britain.

Yes, but has this been in Australia's best interests? Australia is an independent state, not the 51st state of the USA. We have become involved in numerous conflicts that really do not concern us (Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq) at the urging of Washington. Kiwi land has resisted that as much as possible. We should follow suit. We are far enough away and a large enough population to defend ourselves, alone. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Small correction, Korea was at the request of the UN, just as it was for Britain, India, New Zealand, Turkey and so on.

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Frank

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Re: american culture
Reply #61 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 10:57am

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 5^th, 2024 at 11:37am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 5^th, 2024 at 7:09am:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 4^th, 2024 at 1:17pm:

I see myself as Australian, not American. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

If this forum represents mainstream Australian society, I'd say having a sense of being Australian is a dying perception.

Australianism has become the poor cousin of imagined Americanism.

Poor fools my countrymen then. .... Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Is there ANYBODY you don't feel eternally superior to, cockwomble - other than Muslims?

There are very few people, if any, who have even less cause to feel superior and condescending to anyone. You are not superior, Bbwian, merely supercilious. You are so low as to have no room to condescend any further.

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Brian Ross

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Re: american culture
Reply #62 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 11:05am

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 9:13am:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 4^th, 2024 at 12:02pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2024 at 7:06am:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2024 at 9:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2024 at 8:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2024 at 8:22pm:

ANZUS definitely locked us and the Kiwis into a US Imperial State, why else did we ask when we could down whever Washington asked us to jump? We ended up in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq at the whim of Washington. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Both Australia and NZ are not locked in to any materiel support for the US.

However, successive governments in Australia have never refused any US request for support.

Funny that, it's almost if we do as we told by Washington. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Since WW2, in the interests of national security and cultural sensibilities, it has always been perceived by successive Australian governments to align itself with, and staunchly support, US interests - not so much with NZ, which aligns itself culturally with Britain.

Yes, but has this been in Australia's best interests? Australia is an independent state, not the 51st state of the USA. We have become involved in numerous conflicts that really do not concern us (Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq) at the urging of Washington. Kiwi land has resisted that as much as possible. We should follow suit. We are far enough away and a large enough population to defend ourselves, alone. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Small correction, Korea was at the request of the UN, just as it was for Britain, India, New Zealand, Turkey and so on.

It might have been a request from the UN but it was not the reason why Canberra went. It was angling for a security guarantee from the US and saw this as an opportunity to earn one. Poor fools, all they got was the A**US Pact, which is not a security guarantee. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 44017 Gender:	Re: american culture Reply #63 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 11:35am Nobody is looking for a blanket security guarantee. After 1914, when Germany and Russia gave blanket security guarantees to their proxies in the Balkans, a blanket guarantee is recognised as a recipe for things getting out of hand very quickly.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: american culture
Reply #64 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 12:11pm

A security guarantee from the US is exactly what Australia has been chasing since WW2.

Peter Zeihan explains it well...

"Australia is arguably the staunchest ally America has."

"[The Australians] know, at the end of the day, if they don't have a partnership with the Americans, then they are on their own. They can read a map and they realise they're wildly outnumbered in the region, so it's a strategy [a security guarantee] they've been following for decades, a strategy that has borne a lot of fruit and it is a strategy that will continue to serve them well into the future."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eejRr-oP6hw

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Online Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12293 Gender:	Re: american culture Reply #65 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 1:13pm American "culture" ......: "Former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley has put in a formal request for Secret Service protection, and says she has experienced threats amid her primary battle against Donald Trump. https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/nikki-haley-applies-for-secret-service-...
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Brian Ross

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Re: american culture
Reply #66 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 1:43pm

Frank wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 11:35am:

Nobody is looking for a blanket security guarantee.
After 1914, when Germany and Russia gave blanket security guarantees to their proxies in the Balkans, a blanket guarantee is recognised as a recipe for things getting out of hand very quickly.

That would explain the NATO treaty which is a security guarantee, right, Soren? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Frank

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Re: american culture
Reply #67 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 3:13pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 11:35am:

Nobody is looking for a blanket security guarantee.
After 1914, when Germany and Russia gave blanket security guarantees to their proxies in the Balkans, a blanket guarantee is recognised as a recipe for things getting out of hand very quickly.

That would explain the NATO treaty which is a security guarantee, right, Soren? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Neither ANZUS nor AUKUS no any other treaty involving AUstralia has a security guarantee.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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Sir Eoin O Fada

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Re: american culture
Reply #68 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 3:35pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 11:05am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 9:13am:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 4^th, 2024 at 12:02pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2024 at 7:06am:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2024 at 9:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2024 at 8:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2024 at 8:22pm:

ANZUS definitely locked us and the Kiwis into a US Imperial State, why else did we ask when we could down whever Washington asked us to jump? We ended up in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq at the whim of Washington. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Both Australia and NZ are not locked in to any materiel support for the US.

However, successive governments in Australia have never refused any US request for support.

Funny that, it's almost if we do as we told by Washington. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Since WW2, in the interests of national security and cultural sensibilities, it has always been perceived by successive Australian governments to align itself with, and staunchly support, US interests - not so much with NZ, which aligns itself culturally with Britain.

Yes, but has this been in Australia's best interests? Australia is an independent state, not the 51st state of the USA. We have become involved in numerous conflicts that really do not concern us (Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq) at the urging of Washington. Kiwi land has resisted that as much as possible. We should follow suit. We are far enough away and a large enough population to defend ourselves, alone. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Small correction, Korea was at the request of the UN, just as it was for Britain, India, New Zealand, Turkey and so on.

It might have been a request from the UN but it was not the reason why Canberra went. It was angling for a security guarantee from the US and saw this as an opportunity to earn one. Poor fools, all they got was the A**US Pact, which is not a security guarantee. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

It was a request from the UN, not “. . . it might have been . . .” just as India, the UK, etc. responded.

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Brian Ross

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Re: american culture
Reply #69 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 3:40pm

Frank wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 3:13pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 11:35am:

Nobody is looking for a blanket security guarantee.
After 1914, when Germany and Russia gave blanket security guarantees to their proxies in the Balkans, a blanket guarantee is recognised as a recipe for things getting out of hand very quickly.

That would explain the NATO treaty which is a security guarantee, right, Soren? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Neither ANZUS nor AUKUS no any other treaty involving AUstralia has a security guarantee.

That is not how successive Australian Governments have interpreted the agreements, Soren. Seems you aren't listening to what the Government claims. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: american culture
Reply #70 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 3:43pm

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 3:35pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 11:05am:

It might have been a request from the UN but it was not the reason why Canberra went. It was angling for a security guarantee from the US and saw this as an opportunity to earn one. Poor fools, all they got was the A**US Pact, which is not a security guarantee. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

It was a request from the UN, not “. . . it might have been . . .” just as India, the UK, etc. responded.

Seems you didn't read the second part of my response, Eugene. Governments rarely act simply on "a request," they usually have their own motives for doing things. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: american culture
Reply #71 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 3:55pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 1:13pm:

American "culture" ......:

"Former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley has put in a formal request for Secret Service protection, and says she has experienced threats amid her primary battle against Donald Trump.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/nikki-haley-applies-for-secret-service-...

i entirely believe that

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: american culture
Reply #72 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 4:54pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 3:40pm:

That is not how successive Australian Governments have interpreted the agreements

And how successive generations of Australians have also interpreted ANZUS - as a security guarantee - given that that is exactly how Australian governments sold it to the people.

When NZ effectively pulled out of ANZUS over its nuclear-free policy, Australian governments of the day acted and spoke like NZ would be vulnerable to attack without any expectation of assistance, given they'd 'exited' a 'security guarantee'.

Something Joe Rogan mentioned on one of his podcasts rings true.

Having spoken to many Australians over the years, he commented, 'What is it about Australians that they think America will just take care of everything if sh!t hits the fan?'

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Frank

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Re: american culture
Reply #73 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 5:00pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 3:40pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 3:13pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 11:35am:

Nobody is looking for a blanket security guarantee.
After 1914, when Germany and Russia gave blanket security guarantees to their proxies in the Balkans, a blanket guarantee is recognised as a recipe for things getting out of hand very quickly.

That would explain the NATO treaty which is a security guarantee, right, Soren? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Neither ANZUS nor AUKUS no any other treaty involving AUstralia has a security guarantee.

That is not how successive Australian Governments have interpreted the agreements, Soren. Seems you aren't listening to what the Government claims. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

You make up nonsense as you go, as usual, Bbwian.

There is no such thing as 'security guarantee'. There is only pledge of mutual assistance. Nobody is in a position to guarantee anything. NATO members can't and don't guarantee the security of members, only that they would rally around if any member is attacked.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11435 Gender:	Re: american culture Reply #74 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 5:16pm ANZUS binds Australia and the United States to consult on mutual threats, and, in accordance with respective constitutional processes, to act to meet common dangers.
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