Australian Politics Forum - american culture

Brian Ross

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Re: american culture
Reply #75 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 5:47pm

Frank wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 5:00pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 3:40pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 3:13pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 11:35am:

Nobody is looking for a blanket security guarantee.
After 1914, when Germany and Russia gave blanket security guarantees to their proxies in the Balkans, a blanket guarantee is recognised as a recipe for things getting out of hand very quickly.

That would explain the NATO treaty which is a security guarantee, right, Soren? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Neither ANZUS nor AUKUS no any other treaty involving AUstralia has a security guarantee.

That is not how successive Australian Governments have interpreted the agreements, Soren. Seems you aren't listening to what the Government claims. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

You make up nonsense as you go, as usual, Bbwian.

There is no such thing as 'security guarantee'. There is only pledge of mutual assistance. Nobody is in a position to guarantee anything. NATO members can't and don't guarantee the security of members, only that they would rally around if any member is attacked.

You do ignore reality, don't you, Soren. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: american culture
Reply #76 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 5:58pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 5:16pm:

ANZUS binds Australia and the United States to consult on mutual threats, and, in accordance with respective constitutional processes, to act to meet common dangers.

Basically, yes, you are correct. However there is a lot of things that Australian Governments have created in their own minds and rhetoric about it's relationships to A??US and other Treaties such as SEATO. Despite SEATO expressly refusing to accept Indochina as being important to the signatories of the treaty, SEATO was supposedly invoked by members of the Australian Government. A??US was invoked several times by Canberra as a security guarantee. Washington however refused to come to the party. This led to Canberra thinking it had to pay a premium on it's A??US membership and we became involved in Vietnam, Iraq 1990 and 2003 and Afghanistan. A??US does not commit either party but it committed Australia under the Howard Government to the US Wagon after 11 September 2001. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Frank

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Re: american culture
Reply #77 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 6:09pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 5:58pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 5:16pm:

ANZUS binds Australia and the United States to consult on mutual threats, and, in accordance with respective constitutional processes, to act to meet common dangers.

Basically, yes, you are correct. However there is a lot of things that Australian Governments have created in their own minds and rhetoric about it's relationships to A??US and other Treaties such as SEATO. Despite SEATO expressly refusing to accept Indochina as being important to the signatories of the treaty, SEATO was supposedly invoked by members of the Australian Government. A??US was invoked several times by Canberra as a security guarantee. Washington however refused to come to the party. This led to Canberra thinking it had to pay a premium on it's A??US membership and we became involved in Vietnam, Iraq 1990 and 2003 and Afghanistan. A??US does not commit either party but it committed Australia under the Howard Government to the US Wagon after 11 September 2001. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Bollocks.

Incoherent ranty bollocks. Bbwianesque.

The Howard government was not committed. Instead, Howard correctly said that you can't be a Bbwianesque half-ally when 9/11 happened.

Anyone relying on you in a foxhole would be a suicidal idiot. So nobody here on anywhere trusts or relies on you, spineless squishy traitor of trust and alliance.

You are a betrayer by nature. Must not be trusted under any circumstances. You lie and undermine and betray.

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« Last Edit: Feb 6^th, 2024 at 6:52pm by Frank »

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Laugh till you cry Gold Member Offline Posts: 16242 In your happy place Gender:	Re: american culture Reply #78 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 6:17pm Political cowboys, Back-shooters, Dry-gulchers, Rustlers, and Carpetbaggers.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: american culture
Reply #79 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 6:55pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 5:58pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 5:16pm:

ANZUS binds Australia and the United States to consult on mutual threats, and, in accordance with respective constitutional processes, to act to meet common dangers.

Basically, yes, you are correct. However there is a lot of things that Australian Governments have created in their own minds and rhetoric about it's relationships to A??US and other Treaties such as SEATO. Despite SEATO expressly refusing to accept Indochina as being important to the signatories of the treaty, SEATO was supposedly invoked by members of the Australian Government. A??US was invoked several times by Canberra as a security guarantee. Washington however refused to come to the party. This led to Canberra thinking it had to pay a premium on it's A??US membership and we became involved in Vietnam, Iraq 1990 and 2003 and Afghanistan. A??US does not commit either party but it committed Australia under the Howard Government to the US Wagon after 11 September 2001. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

I think you'll find that the Australian governments of the day were more than happy with the Americans in Vietnam and more than happy to be there with them - the 'red yellow hordes' were poised to overrun Australia any day... Apparently!

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Frank

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Re: american culture
Reply #80 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 7:36pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 6:55pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 5:58pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 5:16pm:

ANZUS binds Australia and the United States to consult on mutual threats, and, in accordance with respective constitutional processes, to act to meet common dangers.

Basically, yes, you are correct. However there is a lot of things that Australian Governments have created in their own minds and rhetoric about it's relationships to A??US and other Treaties such as SEATO. Despite SEATO expressly refusing to accept Indochina as being important to the signatories of the treaty, SEATO was supposedly invoked by members of the Australian Government. A??US was invoked several times by Canberra as a security guarantee. Washington however refused to come to the party. This led to Canberra thinking it had to pay a premium on it's A??US membership and we became involved in Vietnam, Iraq 1990 and 2003 and Afghanistan. A??US does not commit either party but it committed Australia under the Howard Government to the US Wagon after 11 September 2001. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

I think you'll find that the Australian governments of the day were more than happy with the Americans in Vietnam and more than happy to be there with them - the 'red yellow hordes' were poised to overrun Australia any day... Apparently!

You are both talking newspapery.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: american culture
Reply #81 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 7:49pm

Frank wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 7:36pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 6:55pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 5:58pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 5:16pm:

ANZUS binds Australia and the United States to consult on mutual threats, and, in accordance with respective constitutional processes, to act to meet common dangers.

Basically, yes, you are correct. However there is a lot of things that Australian Governments have created in their own minds and rhetoric about it's relationships to A??US and other Treaties such as SEATO. Despite SEATO expressly refusing to accept Indochina as being important to the signatories of the treaty, SEATO was supposedly invoked by members of the Australian Government. A??US was invoked several times by Canberra as a security guarantee. Washington however refused to come to the party. This led to Canberra thinking it had to pay a premium on it's A??US membership and we became involved in Vietnam, Iraq 1990 and 2003 and Afghanistan. A??US does not commit either party but it committed Australia under the Howard Government to the US Wagon after 11 September 2001. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

I think you'll find that the Australian governments of the day were more than happy with the Americans in Vietnam and more than happy to be there with them - the 'red yellow hordes' were poised to overrun Australia any day... Apparently!

You are both talking newspapery.

Australians felt more than threatened by the 'Yellow Peril' in the 50s and 60s.

It was 'common knowledge' back then that the red, yellow Asian hordes were green with envy at what Australia had, and it was just a matter of time before they were swarming across our northern border.

It was the existential insecurity that was infused into the Australian psyche after Britain abandoned Australia to its fate during WW2 after the shock fall of Singapore.

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Brian Ross

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Re: american culture
Reply #82 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 7:53pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 6:55pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 5:58pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 5:16pm:

ANZUS binds Australia and the United States to consult on mutual threats, and, in accordance with respective constitutional processes, to act to meet common dangers.

Basically, yes, you are correct. However there is a lot of things that Australian Governments have created in their own minds and rhetoric about it's relationships to A??US and other Treaties such as SEATO. Despite SEATO expressly refusing to accept Indochina as being important to the signatories of the treaty, SEATO was supposedly invoked by members of the Australian Government. A??US was invoked several times by Canberra as a security guarantee. Washington however refused to come to the party. This led to Canberra thinking it had to pay a premium on it's A??US membership and we became involved in Vietnam, Iraq 1990 and 2003 and Afghanistan. A??US does not commit either party but it committed Australia under the Howard Government to the US Wagon after 11 September 2001. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

I think you'll find that the Australian governments of the day were more than happy with the Americans in Vietnam and more than happy to be there with them - the 'red yellow hordes' were poised to overrun Australia any day... Apparently!

Australia was expressly worried about America's commitment to the South Pacific and particularly Australia's security after the 1960 West New Guinea dispute. America had expressed that it's interests were in Europe, their refusal to aid Australia against Indonesia meant that Australia was out on a limb, which they didn't like. So, they basically became involved in South Vietnam, claiming that the South Vietnam invited them, despite no one knowing who was the South Vietnamese government after the deposing of Diem. "War for the Asking" by Michael Sexton has this all detailed and the lies the Australian Prime Minister told the Parliament over it. Menzies was good liar. A very good liar, almost as good as John Howard, when he claimed that a treaty that only pertained to the Pacific region meant he was at the beck and call of Washington. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: american culture
Reply #83 - Feb 6^th, 2024 at 8:01pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 7:49pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 7:36pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 6:55pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 5:58pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 6^th, 2024 at 5:16pm:

ANZUS binds Australia and the United States to consult on mutual threats, and, in accordance with respective constitutional processes, to act to meet common dangers.

Basically, yes, you are correct. However there is a lot of things that Australian Governments have created in their own minds and rhetoric about it's relationships to A??US and other Treaties such as SEATO. Despite SEATO expressly refusing to accept Indochina as being important to the signatories of the treaty, SEATO was supposedly invoked by members of the Australian Government. A??US was invoked several times by Canberra as a security guarantee. Washington however refused to come to the party. This led to Canberra thinking it had to pay a premium on it's A??US membership and we became involved in Vietnam, Iraq 1990 and 2003 and Afghanistan. A??US does not commit either party but it committed Australia under the Howard Government to the US Wagon after 11 September 2001. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

I think you'll find that the Australian governments of the day were more than happy with the Americans in Vietnam and more than happy to be there with them - the 'red yellow hordes' were poised to overrun Australia any day... Apparently!

You are both talking newspapery.

Australians felt more than threatened by the 'Yellow Peril' in the 50s and 60s.

It was 'common knowledge' back then that the red, yellow Asian hordes were green with envy at what Australia had, and it was just a matter of time before they were swarming across our northern border.

It was the existential insecurity that was infused into the Australian psyche after Britain abandoned Australia to its fate during WW2 after the shock fall of Singapore.

Who remembers the DLP TV adverts which featured red arrows descending through Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia to Australia? I do. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Sir Eoin O Fada

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Re: american culture
Reply #84 - Feb 7^th, 2024 at 7:40am

“Who remembers the DLP TV adverts which featured red arrows descending through Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia to Australia? I do.”

I do, Brian, I also remember that the Vietnamese were our allies against the Japanese in WW 2, and how we helped to shaft them at the war’s end, giving the control of the country back to the French.

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Self defence is a right.

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Brian Ross

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Re: american culture
Reply #85 - Feb 7^th, 2024 at 1:42pm

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Feb 7^th, 2024 at 7:40am:

“Who remembers the DLP TV adverts which featured red arrows descending through Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia to Australia? I do.”

I do, Brian, I also remember that the Vietnamese were our allies against the Japanese in WW 2, and how we helped to shaft them at the war’s end, giving the control of the country back to the French.

Will, all we did was assent to the British view that Indochina was a French territory. We were not involved there at all until 1964. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Bobby.

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Re: american culture
Reply #86 - Feb 7^th, 2024 at 1:52pm

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Feb 7^th, 2024 at 7:40am:

“Who remembers the DLP TV adverts which featured red arrows descending through Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia to Australia? I do.”

I do, Brian, I also remember that the Vietnamese were our allies against the Japanese in WW 2, and how we helped to shaft them at the war’s end, giving the control of the country back to the French.

The Yanks created the Viet Cong to fight the Japs. Roll Eyes

-

just like they created Saddam Hussein to fight Iran
and the Taliban and Bin Laden to fight the Russians.

Every time it backfired in their faces.

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