Australian Politics Forum - UK Navy made a big mistake moving from sail power

Bobby.

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Re: UK Navy made a big mistake moving from sail power
Reply #15 - Feb 8^th, 2024 at 4:45pm

Jasin wrote on Feb 8^th, 2024 at 3:02pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 5^th, 2024 at 10:19pm:

Still LTYC -

you have a point.

The ships are too complicated for their own good.
The equipment is not reliable and they take too long to repair.

You wonder how they would go in a real war?
Recently Russian ships were sunk by low cost drones.
Ships become juicy targets for the enemy with cheap technology.

A $100,000 drone can destroy a billion dollar ship.

You have a good point there Bobby.
War Ships are out-dated in a way.
Falklands War: Argie with a Stinger Missile sat on a hill and blew the HMS Sheffield to bit with just one hit.
Cheap Drones have just sunk a Russian War Ship - easy as.
War Ships are now 'Sitting Ducks'.

Just more expensive Machines being taken out of the game by far cheaper machines.

Australian Ships spend a lot of time at dock for maintenance as well.

Yes - also - WW2 was the end of battleships -
they were too easily sunk by aeroplanes from aircraft carriers dropping bombs on them.
Now we are seeing similar situations but with warships versus drones of all types via:
air, sea and underwater.

We also see the same with army tanks - they seem to be sitting ducks for Javelin missiles
that can hit them on the top.

I also wonder if aircraft carriers are now obsolete?
The Yanks have sometimes withdrawn carriers from the Persian Gulf
when tensions have got high with Iran.

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11912 Armidale Gender:	Re: UK Navy made a big mistake moving from sail power Reply #16 - Feb 8^th, 2024 at 7:52pm Wooden ships with iron men are renewable, silent and stealthy to radar. They fed sailors on dog biscuits $6 kg. Discipline was swift and easy with bodies tipped overboard. Using timber reduces AGW.
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Sir Eoin O Fada

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Re: UK Navy made a big mistake moving from sail power
Reply #17 - Feb 8^th, 2024 at 8:06pm

chimera wrote on Feb 8^th, 2024 at 1:02pm:

' ten are nuclear-powered submarines (four ballistic missile submarines and six fleet submarines). In addition the Navy possesses seven mine countermeasures vessels, twenty-six patrol vessels, two survey vessels, one icebreaker and one historic warship, Victory. The total displacement of the Royal Navy's commissioned ships is approximately 421,200 tonnes'.

HMS Victory is included with nuke subs. Its capability is a gun range of 300 metres which scares off the French and Houthis.

The range of its guns is considerably more than 300 metres, except for the wooden ones.

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Self defence is a right.

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Sir Eoin O Fada

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Re: UK Navy made a big mistake moving from sail power
Reply #18 - Feb 8^th, 2024 at 8:08pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on Feb 8^th, 2024 at 12:27pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Feb 8^th, 2024 at 11:21am:

Don’t discount HMS “Victory “, admittedly she’s in dry dock, but fully fitted out except for ammunition, water and food and sundry small supplies.
Could be replenished in a couple of days.

Will the papier mache repairs to holes in its side withstand a strenuous voyage let alone a battle?

Is it possible to cut some holes in the sides for oars to be used?

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/13/article-2187303-14837131000005DC-445_...

That is not HMS “Victory”.

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Self defence is a right.

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Laugh till you cry

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Re: UK Navy made a big mistake moving from sail power
Reply #19 - Feb 8^th, 2024 at 8:08pm

Bobby. wrote on Feb 8^th, 2024 at 4:45pm:

Jasin wrote on Feb 8^th, 2024 at 3:02pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 5^th, 2024 at 10:19pm:

Still LTYC -

you have a point.

The ships are too complicated for their own good.
The equipment is not reliable and they take too long to repair.

You wonder how they would go in a real war?
Recently Russian ships were sunk by low cost drones.
Ships become juicy targets for the enemy with cheap technology.

A $100,000 drone can destroy a billion dollar ship.

You have a good point there Bobby.
War Ships are out-dated in a way.
Falklands War: Argie with a Stinger Missile sat on a hill and blew the HMS Sheffield to bit with just one hit.
Cheap Drones have just sunk a Russian War Ship - easy as.
War Ships are now 'Sitting Ducks'.

Just more expensive Machines being taken out of the game by far cheaper machines.

Australian Ships spend a lot of time at dock for maintenance as well.

Yes - also - WW2 was the end of battleships -
they were too easily sunk by aeroplanes from aircraft carriers dropping bombs on them.
Now we are seeing similar situations but with warships versus drones of all types via:
air, sea and underwater.

We also see the same with army tanks - they seem to be sitting ducks for Javelin missiles
that can hit them on the top.

I also wonder if aircraft carriers are now obsolete?
The Yanks have sometimes withdrawn carriers from the Persian Gulf
when tensions have got high with Iran.

The UK lost 6 ships during the Falklands war.

https://historylists.org/other/list-of-6-british-ships-sunk-during-the-falklands...

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Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me.

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 106528 Melbourne Gender:	Re: UK Navy made a big mistake moving from sail power Reply #20 - Feb 8^th, 2024 at 8:18pm Laugh till you cry wrote on Feb 8^th, 2024 at 8:08pm: The UK lost 6 ships during the Falklands war. https://historylists.org/other/list-of-6-british-ships-sunk-during-the-falklands... Maggie never mentioned that at the time did she?
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Jasin

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Re: UK Navy made a big mistake moving from sail power
Reply #21 - Feb 8^th, 2024 at 8:20pm

Australia should have got Nihon (Japan for the idiots) or Germany to make us an entire 'Fleet' of small Submarines (Sharks) that can be beyond the reach of Drones underwater 90% of the time.

Instead, we've wasted more money 'again' - as the USA will fold on its BIG SUBS and do to Australia what Australia did to the French contract.

Sure, Nihon and Germany were 'once' enemies in 'that' war.
But they had the better deals, better than France or the USA had for us.

All it takes is just one drone or missile to take out those BIG CLUNKERS.
x50 Shark mini-Subs would have a far better effect for Australia from all and any part of the coastline for defence for starters.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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chimera

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Re: UK Navy made a big mistake moving from sail power
Reply #22 - Feb 9^th, 2024 at 7:34am

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Feb 8^th, 2024 at 8:06pm:

The range of its guns is considerably more than 300 metres,

'It fired a 32 pound ball, usually propelled by an 11 pound gunpowder charge giving a muzzle velocity of 1600 feet per second. Fired from the lower gun deck, with the muzzles some 2m above the waterline, this gave a point blank (fired flat) range of approximately 1000 feet.' 1200 inches. 300,000mm.
Eoin has 2 feet.

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chimera

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Re: UK Navy made a big mistake moving from sail power
Reply #23 - Feb 9^th, 2024 at 7:57am

Bobby. wrote on Feb 8^th, 2024 at 8:18pm:

Maggie never mentioned that at the time did she?

Interesting reading. One ship had no guns or missiles. No ship could hit Exocet missiles.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2022/april/failure-falklan...
'Throughout the fleet, visually aimed, manually operated machine guns were lashed to ship railings as a last-ditch point-defense against the missile and aircraft threats'.

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