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thegreatdivide

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Re: foundations
Reply #1050 - Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:50am

Frank wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:27am:

There was more freedom of thought and expression under 18th century Enlightened absolutism than under Chinese communist unenenlightened dictatorship. Quote:

You think so? European wars continued unabated.

[quote]Voltaire was a great friend of Frederick of Prussia and Catherine the Great was a patron of Diderot.

And both despots continued to fight destructive wars.

Quote:

Any modern day Voltaire or Diderot would be jailed or executed by the CCP.

A Voltaire or Diderot promoting common prosperity would be executed in China? I don't think so.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: foundations Reply #1051 - Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:52am Quote: A Voltaire or Diderot promoting common prosperity would be executed in China? I don't think so. If they were a dribbling imbecile or mindless parrot, they would not be Voltaire or Diderot any more.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: foundations
Reply #1052 - Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:53am

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:35am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:31am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:23am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:20am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 9:46am:

Quote:

I'm railing against law based on the delusion of 'natural individial rights' which don't exist in reality, only in the minds of deluded 'sovereign individual'/"freedom" goons.

They do not exist in anyone's mind here except yours. It has been pointed out to you countless times that this is merely your own idiotic delusion.

Er... "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal" (obvious nonsense), "that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,.."

Care to identify these "rights"?

Even the 'right to life and liberty' is cancelled by the 'right' to self defense claimed by Netanyahu, 30,000 dead Palestinians attest to that, in the absence of rule of law out-lawing war.

Are you quoting anyone here?

FD doesn't know the origin of the quoted words?

Would you like to have another go at responding to what I actually posted?

Would you like to respond to the quoted words re "inalienable rights" (and my refutation of them)?

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Frank

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Re: foundations
Reply #1053 - Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:58am

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:29am:

Frank wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:16am:

Quote:

'Natural individual rights' in practice are contradictory

You have to show the contradiction, not just declare it

Quote:

and therfore nonsense; eg informing the concept of 'legal' war (via 'absolute national sovereignty') which is why endless wars and poverty are the continuing backdrop in human affairs.

This does not follow from the first part of the sentence, parrot. Just sticking a 'therefore' between two clauses does NOT create a logical link.

Did you miss the example of a contradiction?

The concept of 'legal' war is absurd, because it amounts to legalizing murder.

That is again a very stupid thing to say. The concept of legal war is your invention.

There is such a thing as the laws of war, rules of engagement and the concept of just war. 'Legal war' is your confused concoction.

There is such a thing as unjust aggression - in which case the defender has the ability to claim the right to defend himself by equal or greater force. That is not 'legalizing murder'.

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freediver

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Re: foundations
Reply #1054 - Apr 5^th, 2024 at 11:00am

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:53am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:35am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:31am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:23am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:20am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 9:46am:

Quote:

I'm railing against law based on the delusion of 'natural individial rights' which don't exist in reality, only in the minds of deluded 'sovereign individual'/"freedom" goons.

They do not exist in anyone's mind here except yours. It has been pointed out to you countless times that this is merely your own idiotic delusion.

Er... "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal" (obvious nonsense), "that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,.."

Care to identify these "rights"?

Even the 'right to life and liberty' is cancelled by the 'right' to self defense claimed by Netanyahu, 30,000 dead Palestinians attest to that, in the absence of rule of law out-lawing war.

Are you quoting anyone here?

FD doesn't know the origin of the quoted words?

Would you like to have another go at responding to what I actually posted?

Would you like to respond to the quoted words re "inalienable rights" (and my refutation of them)?

I already have. You have repeatedly failed to understand what I tell you.

What country do you think the rest of us are in?

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« Last Edit: Apr 5^th, 2024 at 11:09am by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: foundations
Reply #1055 - Apr 5^th, 2024 at 11:02am

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:44am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:41am:

Your error there: mis-interpreting the term "human condition".

In this context the term "the human condition" refers to the endless wars and poverty besetting human affairs, resulting from delusions re 'individual sovereighty' in the human mind.

The CCP starved 50 million people to death by trying to feed them all equally. That was not caused by delusions of freedom. It was caused by the stupidity and evil of the CCP.

Highly inaccurate rhetoric, and a diversion, as usual.

Trying to lift people out of subsistence agriculture and absolute poverty...spot the difference?

The delusions relate to contradictory individual rights belonging to (supposed) sovereign, "free" individuals.

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Online Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12469 Gender:	Re: foundations Reply #1056 - Apr 5^th, 2024 at 11:03am freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:52am: Quote: A Voltaire or Diderot promoting common prosperity would be executed in China? I don't think so. If they were a dribbling imbecile or mindless parrot, they would not be Voltaire or Diderot any more. Careful, 'mirror time' is approaching.
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Frank

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Re: foundations
Reply #1057 - Apr 5^th, 2024 at 11:04am

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:41am:

In this context the term "the human condition" refers to the endless wars and poverty besetting human affairs, resulting from delusions re 'individual sovereighty' in the human mind.

Once again, very stupid and amazingly ignorant.

There were wars for thousands of years before the concept of 'individual sovereignty' was formulated so EVIDENTLY the two - the concept and the wars - have zero causal relationship.

You, being a mindless, unlettered parrot, imagine that your declaring things is proving or refuting them. It isn't.

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freediver

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Re: foundations
Reply #1058 - Apr 5^th, 2024 at 11:07am

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 11:02am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:44am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:41am:

Your error there: mis-interpreting the term "human condition".

In this context the term "the human condition" refers to the endless wars and poverty besetting human affairs, resulting from delusions re 'individual sovereighty' in the human mind.

The CCP starved 50 million people to death by trying to feed them all equally. That was not caused by delusions of freedom. It was caused by the stupidity and evil of the CCP.

Highly inaccurate rhetoric, and a diversion, as usual.

Trying to lift people out of subsistence agriculture and absolute poverty...spot the difference?

The delusions relate to contradictory individual rights belonging to (supposed) sovereign, "free" individuals.

Yes, the difference is that people were starved and/or slaughtered by the CCP, in the tens of millions, because of the CCP's stupidity and evil. Not because of their aspirations for human rights.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: foundations
Reply #1059 - Apr 5^th, 2024 at 11:13am

Frank wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:58am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:29am:

Frank wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:16am:

Quote:

'Natural individual rights' in practice are contradictory

You have to show the contradiction, not just declare it

Quote:

and therfore nonsense; eg informing the concept of 'legal' war (via 'absolute national sovereignty') which is why endless wars and poverty are the continuing backdrop in human affairs.

This does not follow from the first part of the sentence, parrot. Just sticking a 'therefore' between two clauses does NOT create a logical link.

Did you miss the example of a contradiction?

The concept of 'legal' war is absurd, because it amounts to legalizing murder.

That is again a very stupid thing to say. The concept of legal war is your invention.

E.... have a look at the Geneva conventions for "rules" of war. Legalized murder.

Quote:

There is such a thing as the laws of war, rules of engagement and the concept of just war. 'Legal war' is your confused concoction.

Er....laws and legality go hand in hand.

Quote:

There is such a thing as unjust aggression - in which case the defender has the ability to claim the right to defend himself by equal or greater force. That is not 'legalizing murder'.

Unjust aggression is in the eye of the beholder, hence the need for a 'rules based order' to avoid the murder that accompanies war ("it happens in war" - Netanyahu).

One man's "freedom fighter" is another's terrorist.

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Frank

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Re: foundations
Reply #1060 - Apr 5^th, 2024 at 11:14am

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 11:02am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:44am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:41am:

Your error there: mis-interpreting the term "human condition".

In this context the term "the human condition" refers to the endless wars and poverty besetting human affairs, resulting from delusions re 'individual sovereighty' in the human mind.

The CCP starved 50 million people to death by trying to feed them all equally. That was not caused by delusions of freedom. It was caused by the stupidity and evil of the CCP.

Highly inaccurate rhetoric, and a diversion, as usual.

Trying to lift people out of subsistence agriculture and absolute poverty...spot the difference?

The delusions relate to contradictory individual rights belonging to (supposed) sovereign, "free" individuals.

Killing tens of millions AS administrative error - the CCP's 'human condition'.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: foundations
Reply #1061 - Apr 5^th, 2024 at 11:16am

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 11:00am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:53am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:35am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:31am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:23am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:20am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 9:46am:

Quote:

I'm railing against law based on the delusion of 'natural individial rights' which don't exist in reality, only in the minds of deluded 'sovereign individual'/"freedom" goons.

They do not exist in anyone's mind here except yours. It has been pointed out to you countless times that this is merely your own idiotic delusion.

Er... "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal" (obvious nonsense), "that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,.."

Care to identify these "rights"?

Even the 'right to life and liberty' is cancelled by the 'right' to self defense claimed by Netanyahu, 30,000 dead Palestinians attest to that, in the absence of rule of law out-lawing war.

Are you quoting anyone here?

FD doesn't know the origin of the quoted words?

Would you like to have another go at responding to what I actually posted?

Would you like to respond to the quoted words re "inalienable rights" (and my refutation of them)?

I already have.

No, you ignored the quoted passage re 'inalienable rights'. Care to give examples of these 'inalienable rights'?

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freediver

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Re: foundations
Reply #1062 - Apr 5^th, 2024 at 11:18am

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 11:16am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 11:00am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:53am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:35am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:31am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:23am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:20am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 9:46am:

Quote:

I'm railing against law based on the delusion of 'natural individial rights' which don't exist in reality, only in the minds of deluded 'sovereign individual'/"freedom" goons.

They do not exist in anyone's mind here except yours. It has been pointed out to you countless times that this is merely your own idiotic delusion.

Er... "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal" (obvious nonsense), "that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,.."

Care to identify these "rights"?

Even the 'right to life and liberty' is cancelled by the 'right' to self defense claimed by Netanyahu, 30,000 dead Palestinians attest to that, in the absence of rule of law out-lawing war.

Are you quoting anyone here?

FD doesn't know the origin of the quoted words?

Would you like to have another go at responding to what I actually posted?

Would you like to respond to the quoted words re "inalienable rights" (and my refutation of them)?

I already have.

No, you ignored the quoted passage re 'inalienable rights'. Care to give examples of these 'inalienable rights'?

What country do you think the rest of us are in?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: foundations
Reply #1063 - Apr 5^th, 2024 at 11:20am

Well - the foundations of the foundations upon which the West once dwelt are rapidly being undermined by white ants who can eat anything... you do know the little bastards will bore through cement to get at timber, don't you... leave little tunnels and build nests out of your cement slab...

If we do not stand now against the party machines that are eating this society and culture out from within, all will go down... ande especially you with it.

Pack your bags for Tent City - you won't be moving the the coast of WA or similar for solitude and peace any more - it's all being Enclosed off like the Heeghlandt and the Common Land and The Land and the peasants excluded.... the Black Lairds - a new class of overlord robber baron armed with idiot government lawfare and regulationfare - demand that!! Soon you'll be able to drive all the way around Australia and view nothing for most of it but open desert where the highway runs and you won't be allowed to turn off it, either... all 'private land' - no tourist attractions, no national sites and sights, no national parks with sweeping views and spiritual connection for all.... just Enclosed Lands owned by ten whingers, just like the old Pommy Lord so many left Jolly Old Englande over.... the Scottish and Irish and English Diasporas... and include parts of Europe in that too - INCLUDING the collectivisation of farmlands.

A Nightmare Journey To the Heart Of Australia's Greatest Nightmare.

https://sites.udel.edu/britlitwiki/the-enclosure-acts/

Any of this sound familiar to any of you weed minds out there? Man who is born of woman has but a short distance to fly - and LO - the bird is on the wing.... I cannot be with you forever to hold your hands... and I have no need of your accolades here and now since I already have my name engraved on a glass wall for eternity.

I could just say 'phark youse idjits' and walk off into the sunset - but I am a giver and not a taker.... and free giving is a universe away from meek surrender and walking into the gas chambers...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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thegreatdivide

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Re: foundations
Reply #1064 - Apr 5^th, 2024 at 11:26am

Frank wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 11:04am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2024 at 10:41am:

In this context the term "the human condition" refers to the endless wars and poverty besetting human affairs, resulting from delusions re 'individual sovereighty' in the human mind.

There were wars for thousands of years before the concept of 'individual sovereignty' was formulated so EVIDENTLY the two - the concept and the wars - have zero causal relationship.

Your error there: since the beginning of time, the 'law' (sic) has been might is right.

An attempt was made to effect change from this basis of 'law' in 1946, but the delusional 'sovereign individual' (and nation) concept destroyed the possibility of change, when the veto was demanded by the 'sovereign' nations in UNSC.

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