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MeisterEckhart

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Re: foundations
Reply #330 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 5:52pm

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 5:51pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 5:50pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 5:45pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 5:21pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 5:17pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 5:14pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 5:11pm:

Can you name an item in every day use by the Maasai which they could purchase with one or more cows?

If you were wandering through their territory, they could have kidnapped you and sold you as a slave to another tribe for a couple of cows.

Could they buy anything other than people with one or more cows?

Why don't you tell us that people were money, seeing as they have an even more immense value?

Anything could have been purchased with cows in societies that valued them and used them as a medium of exchange.

Can you name something in everyday use by the Maasai that could be bought with one or more cows?

Remember the other day when you wanted to buy a bag of jelly beans to suck on but the shop owner said you had to spend at least $5 in his cashless shop via eftpos?

You had to choose whether you bought other goods as well or opened an account with the shopkeeper and promised to pay when the value of your purchases reached $5.

Which did you choose?

No. That has never happened to me.

Can you name something in everyday use by the Maasai that could be bought with one or more cows? Go on, just one. It won't hurt.

Which would you choose?

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freediver

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Re: foundations
Reply #331 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 5:54pm

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Which did you choose?

I would choose neither. I would walk out of the shop. I'm not even sure that is legal in Australia.

Why are you so desperate to avoid giving an example of something in everyday use by the Maasai that could be bought with their "money". So desperate that you dream up fake scenarios that no-one here has encountered.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: foundations
Reply #332 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:01pm

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 5:54pm:

Quote:

Which did you choose?

I would choose neither. I would walk out of the shop. I'm not even sure that is legal in Australia.

Why are you so desperate to avoid giving an example of something in everyday use by the Maasai that could be bought with their "money".

It's practised in Australia, although getting rarer.

Not desperate at all... You on the other hand...

Maasai are capable of maintaining accounts for goods provided that may add to less than the value of a cow.

For everything else, there's bartering - while they have a commodity required by the other party... After that, it's make do with what you've got.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: foundations Reply #333 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:10pm Are you saying that you cannot give a single example of something that was in everyday use by the Maasai that could be bought with one or more cows? How did the Maasai keep accounts for everyone they bartered with?
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: foundations
Reply #334 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:16pm

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:10pm:

Are you saying that you cannot give a single example of something that was in everyday use by the Maasai that could be bought with one or more cows?

How did the Maasai keep accounts for everyone they bartered with?

Maasai were, and many still are, nomadic subsistence farmers. They had little to no use for money in their day-to-day lives - similar to all subsistence farmers. When they did, they used cows.

Are you saying the Maasai were too stupid to comprehend the physical recording of debt?

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freediver

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Re: foundations
Reply #335 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:22pm

Quote:

When they did, they used cows.

So you keep saying. Can you give an example of something that was in everyday use by the Maasai that could be bought with one or more cows?

Quote:

Are you saying the Maasai were too stupid to comprehend the physical recording of debt?

I am asking how they recorded it. Do you know, or are you just making it up?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: foundations
Reply #336 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:33pm

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:22pm:

Quote:

When they did, they used cows.

So you keep saying. Can you give an example of something that was in everyday use by the Maasai that could be bought with one or more cows?

Quote:

Are you saying the Maasai were too stupid to comprehend the physical recording of debt?

I am asking how they recorded it. Do you know, or are you just making it up?

Do you think life isn't possible without immigrants running delis? The Maasai did not buy things daily, they were nomadic - they generally did not need to use any medium of exchange for day-to-day life.

Historically they used clay tablets to record debt - these days it's pen and paper... even mobile phone apps.

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Setanta Gold Member Offline \/ Peace man! Posts: 16520 Northern NSW Gender:	Re: foundations Reply #337 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:35pm freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:22pm: Quote: When they did, they used cows. So you keep saying. Can you give an example of something that was in everyday use by the Maasai that could be bought with one or more cows? Wives.
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freediver

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Re: foundations
Reply #338 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:35pm

Meister is this a fair summary of your arguments on Maasai money?

Cows were money. We know they were money because they were money. But you couldn't actually buy anything with them because of their immense value. So the Maasai invented a system of debts, which became due when they reached a cow. They were nomadic people so they carried the paperwork around with them.

Baskets were not money. We know they were not money because they were not money. But they were a much more convenient as a medium of exchange than cows. Because they were not money, we call this bartering.

Because baskets were used in bartering they were not money. But because cows were used to buy things with, they were money. Even though you couldn't buy anything with them. Unless you got kidnapped and your cows wanted to buy you back. The Maasai occasionally wandered into the neighbours paddock and the cows had to go and buy them back. With themselves.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11886 Gender:	Re: foundations Reply #339 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:38pm Setanta wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:35pm: freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:22pm: Quote: When they did, they used cows. So you keep saying. Can you give an example of something that was in everyday use by the Maasai that could be bought with one or more cows? Wives. One a day, you reckon?
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: foundations
Reply #340 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:39pm

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:35pm:

Meister is this a fair summary of your arguments on Maasai money?

Cows were money. We know they were money because they were money. But you couldn't actually buy anything with them because of their immense value. So the Maasai invented a system of debts, which became due when they reached a cow. They were nomadic people so they carried the paperwork around with them.

Baskets were not money. We know they were not money because they were not money. But they were much more convenient as a medium of exchange than cows. Because they were not money, we call this bartering.

Because baskets were used in bartering they were not money. But because cows were used to buy things with, they were money. Even though you couldn't buy anything with them. Unless you got kidnapped and your cows wanted to buy you back. The Maasai occasionally wandered into the neighbours paddock and the cows had to go and buy them back. With themselves.

Are you Frank's twin brother?

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: foundations
Reply #341 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:42pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:39pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:35pm:

Meister is this a fair summary of your arguments on Maasai money?

Cows were money. We know they were money because they were money. But you couldn't actually buy anything with them because of their immense value. So the Maasai invented a system of debts, which became due when they reached a cow. They were nomadic people so they carried the paperwork around with them.

Baskets were not money. We know they were not money because they were not money. But they were much more convenient as a medium of exchange than cows. Because they were not money, we call this bartering.

Because baskets were used in bartering they were not money. But because cows were used to buy things with, they were money. Even though you couldn't buy anything with them. Unless you got kidnapped and your cows wanted to buy you back. The Maasai occasionally wandered into the neighbours paddock and the cows had to go and buy them back. With themselves.

Are you Frank's twin brother?

Is this a fair summary of your arguments on money?

Only money can be money.

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freediver

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Re: foundations
Reply #342 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:54pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:42pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:39pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 6:35pm:

Meister is this a fair summary of your arguments on Maasai money?

Cows were money. We know they were money because they were money. But you couldn't actually buy anything with them because of their immense value. So the Maasai invented a system of debts, which became due when they reached a cow. They were nomadic people so they carried the paperwork around with them.

Baskets were not money. We know they were not money because they were not money. But they were much more convenient as a medium of exchange than cows. Because they were not money, we call this bartering.

Because baskets were used in bartering they were not money. But because cows were used to buy things with, they were money. Even though you couldn't buy anything with them. Unless you got kidnapped and your cows wanted to buy you back. The Maasai occasionally wandered into the neighbours paddock and the cows had to go and buy them back. With themselves.

Are you Frank's twin brother?

Is this a fair summary of your arguments on money?

Only money can be money.

Not just me and Frank. I challenge you to find a single person who does not think you are being a bit silly here.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Frank

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Re: foundations
Reply #343 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 7:00pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 2:43pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 1:28pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 9:59am:

Frank wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 9:18am:

http://www.yabbforum.com/
ANyway, you are confusing value (of a cow, of wheat) with money which is a symbol of value.
Money does not represent a cow or wheat. Money represents value. The cow and the wheat have some value but they are NOT value, they are cow and heat.

No. The cow was used as money. It was a medium of exchange used for trade, labour payment and debts between tribes and clans. Those tribes judged their relative status by how many cows they owned relative to other tribes. They accumulated cows even beyond their immediate need for them all - i.e.cows were money. The fact that they had intrinsic value beyond their symbolic use notwithstanding.

You are retrofitting the cows and bartering into money.

You cannot put 20 cows into your pocket and go travelling. You can put some good money in your pocket or on your card and go anywhere.
[]https://www.rba.gov.au/media-releases/2019/images/20-ngb-full-signature-side.jpg[]

Or you can have some bad money and go nowhere.
[]https://www.rba.gov.au/education/images/explainers/what-is-money-05-zimbabwe-banknote.jpg[]

You can't seem to get your hand off it when it comes to money being anything other than being symbolic only.

Of course you can't use cows as money in modern societies... That has nothing to do with cows once being used as money - no barter, money.

In societies where obvious intrinsic value was a prerequisite for anything being worthy of being used as money, obviously cows beat heavy precious metals that no one deemed to have any real value.

Behold the highest denomination banknote ever issued - the Hungarian 100 Quintillion Pengo note

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/HUP_100MB_1946_obverse.jpg

So you ARE a Hungarian.

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11886 Gender:	Re: foundations Reply #344 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 7:08pm Frank wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 7:00pm: So you ARE a Hungarian. I refer to the greatest hyperinflation in world history, unlikely ever to be exceeded, and I'm Hungarian, now? Are you Zimbabwean?
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