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foundations (Read 34808 times)
MeisterEckhart
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Re: foundations
Reply #360 - Mar 8th, 2024 at 9:43pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2024 at 9:41pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 8th, 2024 at 9:40pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2024 at 9:39pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 8th, 2024 at 9:26pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2024 at 9:12pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 8th, 2024 at 7:10pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2024 at 6:54pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 8th, 2024 at 6:42pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 8th, 2024 at 6:39pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2024 at 6:35pm:
Meister is this a fair summary of your arguments on Maasai money?

Cows were money. We know they were money because they were money. But you couldn't actually buy anything with them because of their immense value. So the Maasai invented a system of debts, which became due when they reached a cow. They were nomadic people so they carried the paperwork around with them.

Baskets were not money. We know they were not money because they were not money. But they were much more convenient as a medium of exchange than cows. Because they were not money, we call this bartering.

Because baskets were used in bartering they were not money. But because cows were used to buy things with, they were money. Even though you couldn't buy anything with them. Unless you got kidnapped and your cows wanted to buy you back. The Maasai occasionally wandered into the neighbours paddock and the cows had to go and buy them back. With themselves.

Are you Frank's twin brother?

Is this a fair summary of your arguments on money?

Only money can be money.


Not just me and Frank. I challenge you to find a single person who does not think you are being a bit silly here.

So only money can be money, then?


You sure do like your circular reasoning.

That's my summary of your logic.


How did the Maasai store physical records of debts for sub-cow transactions?

Can rum be money?


Because of its immense value?

Can rum be money?
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freediver
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Re: foundations
Reply #361 - Mar 9th, 2024 at 5:53am
 
I think you are confusing wealth and money. Cattle were apparently the Maasai's only significant store of wealth. We tend to use wealthy interchangeably with having lots of money, but they are not actually the same thing.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: foundations
Reply #362 - Mar 9th, 2024 at 8:14am
 
freediver wrote on Mar 9th, 2024 at 5:53am:
I think you are confusing wealth and money. Cattle were apparently the Maasai's only significant store of wealth. We tend to use wealthy interchangeably with having lots of money, but they are not actually the same thing.

If money is defined as: a universally agreed or generally accepted medium of exchange among trading partners; can be individuated; and can function as a store of value, then cows, within Maasai culture, meet that criteria.
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Re: foundations
Reply #363 - Mar 9th, 2024 at 9:01am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 9th, 2024 at 8:14am:
freediver wrote on Mar 9th, 2024 at 5:53am:
I think you are confusing wealth and money. Cattle were apparently the Maasai's only significant store of wealth. We tend to use wealthy interchangeably with having lots of money, but they are not actually the same thing.

If money is defined as: a universally agreed or generally accepted medium of exchange among trading partners; can be individuated; and can function as a store of value, then cows, within Maasai culture, meet that criteria.


Can you explain why you think they were a generally accepted medium of exchange if you could not actually exchange them for anything?
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: foundations
Reply #364 - Mar 9th, 2024 at 5:36pm
 
How much is a coffle of transgender women worth?  Just asking...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: foundations
Reply #365 - Mar 9th, 2024 at 6:07pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 9th, 2024 at 9:01am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 9th, 2024 at 8:14am:
freediver wrote on Mar 9th, 2024 at 5:53am:
I think you are confusing wealth and money. Cattle were apparently the Maasai's only significant store of wealth. We tend to use wealthy interchangeably with having lots of money, but they are not actually the same thing.

If money is defined as: a universally agreed or generally accepted medium of exchange among trading partners; can be individuated; and can function as a store of value, then cows, within Maasai culture, meet that criteria.


Can you explain why you think they were a generally accepted medium of exchange if you could not actually exchange them for anything?

The Maasai used cows to purchase wives, land, grain/food, in intertribal exchanges for access to land/water, for intertribal alliances, penalty payments for transgressions, as awards for individual excellence - e.g. warriors, as payment for long-term labour, as prizes in competitions and wagers.

Can rum be money?
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Frank
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Re: foundations
Reply #366 - Mar 9th, 2024 at 7:16pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 9th, 2024 at 8:14am:
freediver wrote on Mar 9th, 2024 at 5:53am:
I think you are confusing wealth and money. Cattle were apparently the Maasai's only significant store of wealth. We tend to use wealthy interchangeably with having lots of money, but they are not actually the same thing.

If money is defined as: a universally agreed or generally accepted medium of exchange among trading partners; can be individuated; and can function as a store of value, then cows, within Maasai culture, meet that criteria.


Cheesy Grin Cheesy
Masai cows are yet another (ant)hill you are prepared to die on.

Ridiculous. Mania doesn't come close to describing it.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: foundations
Reply #367 - Mar 9th, 2024 at 8:39pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 9th, 2024 at 7:16pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 9th, 2024 at 8:14am:
freediver wrote on Mar 9th, 2024 at 5:53am:
I think you are confusing wealth and money. Cattle were apparently the Maasai's only significant store of wealth. We tend to use wealthy interchangeably with having lots of money, but they are not actually the same thing.

If money is defined as: a universally agreed or generally accepted medium of exchange among trading partners; can be individuated; and can function as a store of value, then cows, within Maasai culture, meet that criteria.


Cheesy Grin Cheesy
Masai cows are yet another (ant)hill you are prepared to die on.

Ridiculous. Mania doesn't come close to describing it.


Mania, eh!

Like your bitch fagging across this forum every day.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: foundations
Reply #368 - Mar 9th, 2024 at 9:35pm
 
Just a wee foundation... see how they lie like pigs in a sty ...

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/2024-this-year-life-for-women-is-only-getti...

The Grapes Of Wrath planted by feminists and assiduously  tended by them until they have nothing else left but the bitter wine.... and the whine..... and 18-21 yo sheilas are the loneliest on the planet - even though they possess a huge percentage of the young tight pussy and all of it within that age group..... now that has to tell you something...

Barbie... a feminist icon   .... this looks like a waste of good Kilkenny, pint of .... but... anyone else notice Guinness is getting lighter in colour and flavour ... WTF???  Talk about dropping standards of living....

Barbie!!
...
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« Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2024 at 11:43pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: foundations
Reply #369 - Mar 9th, 2024 at 11:31pm
 
Pussy is a valuable commodity - the Japanese call it The Golden Gully - you pay for it one way or the other... and it is a terrific weapon of man's destruction in the Gender Wars.... look at the idiot's gallery in Cambra who start panting and drooling when some sheila hands them the list of the latest demands....

"... either your signature is on the paper or your chance for pussy ain't worth the paper it's written on ..... and that's the family ... stop crying.. bend over and take it like a man..... Penny!! Strap-on!! ...... and we want that wage gap to be more in our favour than it is now - say seventy percent instead of seven ... it's only fair, right?  Now let's get you pegged.... oh, yeah - we've already got 'at least 50% of winnable parliamentary seats', meaning men can never hold more than 50% but women can hold 100% ... but that doesn't go far enough....we want it all now, so sign ...."
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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freediver
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Re: foundations
Reply #370 - Mar 11th, 2024 at 8:23am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 9th, 2024 at 6:07pm:
The Maasai used cows to purchase wives, land...


So the Maasai had private ownership of land?

Can you explain what you meant by them keeping physical records of debts for sub-cow transactions?
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thegreatdivide
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Re: foundations
Reply #371 - Mar 11th, 2024 at 9:40am
 
freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2024 at 2:36pm:
You are completely missing the point of the question. It is far more fundamental than that, and goes to the very nature of money. It has nothing to do with exchange rates.


Again, re "the nature of money", your 'shared belief'  is not based in reality

You asserted the value of a fiat currency depends on a 'shared belief' in its value as a medium of exchange.

I showed that is incorrect; eg, hyper-inflation in failing economies annuls the 'shared belief' the citizens previously had in their currency.

Whereas in productive nations like the US and China, a 'shared belief' in the  currency's value - while seeming to be justified - is actually irrelevent to the currency' value, so long as those nation's can maintain their productivity.

(Government "debt" is actually the private sector's assets, study MMT.  eg, a US "debt" of $100 trillion  mostly owed to its own citizens - need not  negatively  affect the nation's productivity, so long as the debt is denominated in US dollars, which the US government can create out of thin air, just as private banks do when they write loans for credit-worthy customers).

"Foundations".....   depend on whether your "shared  beliefs" are based on reality or not.

A 'shared belief' that Palestine belongs to Jews is not reality, it's OT mythology.

Hence the need for international law to adjudicate between  'shared beliefs' ....if you want to "save mankind from the scourge of war" (UN Chater) .

You are like Hamas: 'my way or the high way';  you are doubly complicit in the current slaughter in Gaza because Hamas is a reaction to Israel's creation on Muslim Palestine lands; both you and Hamas need to support UN res 242, the 2-state solution under international law, with security guaranteed by the UNSC.

(Personally, I'm with the Jews who objected to Israel's recreation; but more than that,  I believe in international law to end endless wars. 

Note: on the ABC tonight:   

On '4 Corners' tonight (8.30pm): an examination of the "endless war" in Palestine, and the role of the extreme Israeli RW.

Followed by Q&A  (9.30pm): with panel member  Stephanie Kelton debunking the 'magic money tree' assertion of  conservative economists; sustainable resource mobilization, not deficits per se, is the necessity for a productive economy.      



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thegreatdivide
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Re: foundations
Reply #372 - Mar 11th, 2024 at 9:40am
 
.
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freediver
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Re: foundations
Reply #373 - Mar 11th, 2024 at 9:45am
 
Quote:
You asserted the value of a fiat currency depends on a 'shared belief' in its value as a medium of exchange.

I showed that is incorrect


No you didn't. You misunderstood what I said and disproved your own BS. You thought I was talking about exchange rates.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: foundations
Reply #374 - Mar 11th, 2024 at 9:51am
 
freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2024 at 8:23am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 9th, 2024 at 6:07pm:
The Maasai used cows to purchase wives, land...


So the Maasai had private ownership of land?

Can you explain what you meant by them keeping physical records of debts for sub-cow transactions?


You mob still arguing over the nature of money, I see....

Note: it's created out of thin air, the question by whom and what for....

[Obviously wealth - in an economy which consists only of breeding cows to support life -  IS cows; money not required). 
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