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AusGeoff

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Re: foundations
Reply #45 - Mar 4^th, 2024 at 4:45am

freediver wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2024 at 4:40pm:

Do you think Bob Hawke really said that Bobby?

I couldn't find any verbatim comments made by Hawke himself,
other than this third-party claim by Credlin. who's as legit as a
three-dollar note. Any other sources out there?

Peta Credlin writes:
Quote:

Back in 1994, launching a book of essays, former prime minister Bob
Hawke made the remarkably frank admission that immigration policy
had effectively been a conspiracy by the political establishment against
the Australian public. Hawke agreed with one author’s observation
that most voters wanted immigration reduced and that the parties had
deliberately kept it out of public debate, saying there had indeed been
"an implicit pact between the major parties to implement broad policies
on immigration that they know are not generally endorsed by the electorate"
and that "they have done this by keeping the subject off the political agenda".

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Bobby.

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Re: foundations
Reply #46 - Mar 4^th, 2024 at 5:11am

AusGeoff wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 4:45am:

I couldn't find any verbatim comments made by Hawke himself,
other than this third-party claim by Credlin. who's as legit as a
three-dollar note. Any other sources out there?

Occam's Razor:

the simplest explanation that will account for a circumstance or event
is most likely the correct explanation.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48834 At my desk.	Re: foundations Reply #47 - Mar 4^th, 2024 at 7:41am https://www.ironbarkresources.com/asia/asia106.htm Quote: McAllister stated that "there has been an implicit pact between the main parties to implement broad policies on immigration they know are not generally endorsed by the electorate" and that "This has been achieved by keeping the subject off the political agenda".(34)
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Bobby.

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Re: foundations
Reply #48 - Mar 4^th, 2024 at 7:50am

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 7:41am:

https://www.ironbarkresources.com/asia/asia106.htm

Quote:

McAllister stated that "there has been an implicit pact between the main parties to implement broad policies on immigration they know are not generally endorsed by the electorate" and that "This has been achieved by keeping the subject off the political agenda".(34)

So Professor McAllister, said it - not Bob Hawke?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48834 At my desk.	Re: foundations Reply #49 - Mar 4^th, 2024 at 8:09am Bobby it sounds like you are failing to appreciate the number of issues that people care about and that political parties are expected to cater to. As well as the diverse opinions on each issue. You do not need a conspiracy to explain what you see, and it certainly does not mean our democracy is not real.
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Bobby.

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Re: foundations
Reply #50 - Mar 4^th, 2024 at 8:11am

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 8:09am:

Bobby it sounds like you are failing to appreciate the number of issues that people care about and that political parties are expected to cater to. As well as the diverse opinions on each issue. You do not need a conspiracy to explain what you see, and it certainly does not mean our democracy is not real.

But that's a good article:

https://www.ironbarkresources.com/asia/asia106.htm

There have been many calls for a referendum on the subject of immigration,
but all of the major political parties have refused or ignored these calls.
They know what the outcome would be.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48834 At my desk.	Re: foundations Reply #51 - Mar 4^th, 2024 at 8:27am A referendum requires a question with a binary answer Bobby. It's good that they do not waste time and money on a referendum that everyone already knows the answer to.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: foundations
Reply #52 - Mar 4^th, 2024 at 9:38am

freediver wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2024 at 2:53pm:

The Foundations of Modern Civilisation

Power
Wealth
Liberty

Universal Education
Women’s Rights
Freedom of the Press
Constraint of Monopoly
Economic Rights

Human Rights
Rejection of Slavery
Rejection of Corruption

Democracy
Equality Before the Law

So.....Musk's wealth and power which exceeds the GDPs of more than half the world's nations - while many individuals are are forced onto the unemployment scrap heap and others struggle with cost of living issues - is an example of 'Equality Before the Law'?

Er .....care to rethink the meaning of "Equality before the Law", before the global economy implodes under ecological and poverty-related catastrophies including famine and war?

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« Last Edit: Mar 4^th, 2024 at 9:43am by thegreatdivide »

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48834 At my desk.	Re: foundations Reply #53 - Mar 4^th, 2024 at 9:45am Quote: So.....Musk's wealth and power which exceeds the GDPs of more than half the world's nations - while many individuals are are forced onto the unemployment scrap heap and others struggle with cost of living issues - is an example of 'Equality Before the Law'? No. It is an example of wealth.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: foundations
Reply #54 - Mar 4^th, 2024 at 9:53am

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 9:45am:

Quote:

So.....Musk's wealth and power which exceeds the GDPs of more than half the world's nations - while many individuals are are forced onto the unemployment scrap heap and others struggle with cost of living issues - is an example of 'Equality Before the Law'?

No. It is an example of wealth.

And that is your argument?

Have another look your own (ideologically distorted) diagram.

'Equality before the Law' is at the base of the pyramid, 'wealth' is at it's tip.

So I ask again: what is the relationship of "Equality before the Law" and "wealth", in your wonderful delusion-based world?

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freediver

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Re: foundations
Reply #55 - Mar 4^th, 2024 at 10:04am

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 9:53am:

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 9:45am:

Quote:

So.....Musk's wealth and power which exceeds the GDPs of more than half the world's nations - while many individuals are are forced onto the unemployment scrap heap and others struggle with cost of living issues - is an example of 'Equality Before the Law'?

No. It is an example of wealth.

And that is your argument?

Have another look your own (ideologically distorted) diagram.

'Equality before the Law' is at the base of the pyramid, 'wealth' is at it's tip.

So I ask again: what is the relationship of "Equality before the Law" and "wealth", in your wonderful delusion-based world?

Equality before the law and democracy are the foundations. We did not buy equality before the law with our wealth, but our wealth depends on it to a significant extent.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: foundations
Reply #56 - Mar 4^th, 2024 at 10:15am

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 10:04am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 9:53am:

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 9:45am:

Quote:

So.....Musk's wealth and power which exceeds the GDPs of more than half the world's nations - while many individuals are are forced onto the unemployment scrap heap and others struggle with cost of living issues - is an example of 'Equality Before the Law'?

No. It is an example of wealth.

And that is your argument?

Have another look your own (ideologically distorted) diagram.

'Equality before the Law' is at the base of the pyramid, 'wealth' is at it's tip.

So I ask again: what is the relationship of "Equality before the Law" and "wealth", in your wonderful delusion-based world?

Equality before the law and democracy are the foundations. We did not buy equality before the law with our wealth, but our wealth depends on it to a significant extent.

Your error there: you talk about "our wealth" as if it is something we all enjoy, as an outcome of "equality before the law".... "to a significant extent" (...you feeling uncomfortable already?)

But millions of people are subject to famine, millions more to cost of living crises, while Musk/Bezos etc are selling joy-rides in space to millionaires.

"Equality before the Law"?

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« Last Edit: Mar 4^th, 2024 at 10:23am by thegreatdivide »

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freediver

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Re: foundations
Reply #57 - Mar 4^th, 2024 at 10:18am

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 10:15am:

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 10:04am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 9:53am:

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 9:45am:

Quote:

So.....Musk's wealth and power which exceeds the GDPs of more than half the world's nations - while many individuals are are forced onto the unemployment scrap heap and others struggle with cost of living issues - is an example of 'Equality Before the Law'?

No. It is an example of wealth.

And that is your argument?

Have another look your own (ideologically distorted) diagram.

'Equality before the Law' is at the base of the pyramid, 'wealth' is at it's tip.

So I ask again: what is the relationship of "Equality before the Law" and "wealth", in your wonderful delusion-based world?

Equality before the law and democracy are the foundations. We did not buy equality before the law with our wealth, but our wealth depends on it to a significant extent.

Your error there: you talk about "our wealth" as if it is something we all enjoy, as an outcome of "equality before the law".

But millions of people are subject to famine, millions more to cost of living crises, while Musk is selling joy-rides in space to millionaires.

"Equality before the Law"?

It is referring to national laws.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 47448 Gender:	Re: foundations Reply #58 - Mar 4^th, 2024 at 10:30am Well, as we are seeing. American 'democracy' is based on the 'deepest pocket', not 'truth' of the matter.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: foundations
Reply #59 - Mar 4^th, 2024 at 10:37am

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 10:18am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 10:15am:

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 10:04am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 9:53am:

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 9:45am:

Quote:

So.....Musk's wealth and power which exceeds the GDPs of more than half the world's nations - while many individuals are are forced onto the unemployment scrap heap and others struggle with cost of living issues - is an example of 'Equality Before the Law'?

No. It is an example of wealth.

And that is your argument?

Have another look your own (ideologically distorted) diagram.

'Equality before the Law' is at the base of the pyramid, 'wealth' is at it's tip.

So I ask again: what is the relationship of "Equality before the Law" and "wealth", in your wonderful delusion-based world?

Equality before the law and democracy are the foundations. We did not buy equality before the law with our wealth, but our wealth depends on it to a significant extent.

Your error there: you talk about "our wealth" as if it is something we all enjoy, as an outcome of "equality before the law".

But millions of people are subject to famine, millions more to cost of living crises, while Musk is selling joy-rides in space to millionaires.

"Equality before the Law"?

It is referring to national laws.

Laws based on the delusion of 'natural individual rights'; but since it's impossible for you to understand that delusion, I Robot has explained the error of your understanding of "equality before the law", in simple terms for you.

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