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I did not say I don't accept that. I said it is irrelevant to the topic at hand, which still eludes you after 33 pages of your mindless dribble. This is just another of your idiotic misunderstandings.

I am not using the term "value" with the same meaning that you are. I have tried explaining this to you 100 different ways, but you are too stupid to understand. I am not talking about the prices paid, the exchange rates, inflation etc. I am talking about being able to go into a shop and buy something of real value by exchanging it for a piece of paper or plastic that has no intrinsic value. I am talking about this exchange, regardless of the numbers or what you call value. The piece of paper you use could by $1 or $1000000. You could be buying a car or a lollipop. You are still exchanging something of no intrinsic value for something of real value, and that requires a very specific belief from the person who accepts the item of no intrinsic value. The specific belief is that it has value despite having no intrinsic value. It is not a belief about how that value is determined. It has nothing to do with the reality of how it is determined.

Whether you care is irrelevant. The truth is not affected by whether you care about it. If you try to buy something using money from a person who does not share your belief that your money has value, all the government propaganda that you believe will not make any difference to the reality you face - that your money is of no use in that situation and cannot be used, and the only way to get that person to accept your money as payment is to get them to share your belief that it has value.

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Sure, if it wants that money to be used. Your ignorance of the historical efforts required to get people to share this belief does not change that reality. And the fact that you and everyone you know shares this belief without question does not mean that your belief is not fundamental to your ability to use money. It merely means that you are too stupid to see  something bleeding obvious that is right in front of you.

freediver wrote on Mar 12^th, 2024 at 4:07pm:


And you are wrong; it's the ONLY foundation for the nation's money's real value; YOUR "shared belief" is irrelevant.

And just because people in a failing economy might be forced to find other ways to trade, doesn't mean they will agree on the value of another form of money (or even barter). Anarchy is the much more likely outcome of a failing economy.    

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Yes you are: ie how much money do you need to buy an apple... 

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Correct, as noted above: paper (or coin) with a number written on it,  to buy an apple... amazing... are we back on track yet?

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Are you skidding off course already?

The numbers on the piece of paper signify the "exchange value" of the piece of paper. ie,  how many pieces of paper do you need to buy the apple.....

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Correct...(phew!) back on track....even computer language (bits) with no intrinsic value, will do the trick (ie  pay for the apple). 

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No: it requires that he accepts the value of the nation's currency, nothing to do with belief but the reality of the economy's productivity (see my comments re a failing economy, above). 

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The 'belief' that the nation's currency has value? That belief will either be confirmed or negated by the nation's economic circumstances and performance. 

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You are denying reality; the economy's performance is the basis of the nation's  money's value; ie how many apples can you buy for the nation's currency unit.   

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Correct - amazng, you make some correct statements along the way...

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As I said, anarchy will have broken out, long before then.

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The sovereign government establishes authority by issuing the nation's currency, and taxing it back; no one else can issue the nation's currency.

No 'shared belief' required, only acceptance of the sovereign's authority.

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Refuted above: citizens normally choose to accept the government's authority to issue money which can be exchanged for items produced in the economy, (or they don't, when economic mismanagement ruins the ecomomy; see Haiti). 

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careful...it's 'mirror time'....

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 12^th, 2024 at 5:43pm:

How did you use to do that after purchasing a newspaper?

True government comes from a mandate of the masses, willingly given and fully informed! We're a semi-autonomous, quasi-anarchic egalitarian assemblage of rules-bound free individuals who vote every three years on our elected representatives, who then sit down and natter out the best way forward, and if we disagree with them we can write to them or vote them out next time around, or even refuse to abide by their dictates under the guiding principle that 'an unjust law – (or decision or policy for that matter) – is no law - (or decision or policy for that matter) - at all'!  We don't need no Voices in our heads or empty-headed governments telling us what to do!!

freediver wrote on Mar 12^th, 2024 at 5:54pm:


Your error: how money is manifested (via bits of paper, coins, or digits in bank accounts) has 'no intrinsic value', but money's utility as an exchange mechanism endows it with value.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 12^th, 2024 at 7:02pm:


yes - the competitive, self-interested masses; see the problem?

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ROTFL - what universe are you living in? Murdoch stolen your brain?

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