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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12449 Gender:	Re: foundations Reply #495 - Mar 14^th, 2024 at 1:39pm .
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thegreatdivide

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Re: foundations
Reply #496 - Mar 14^th, 2024 at 1:55pm

freediver wrote on Mar 14^th, 2024 at 10:56am:

[quote]

"related" is your way of saying you do not really know what you are talking about.

Wrong: it is my refutation of your false proposition the price of money is "entirely arbitrary".

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The government can adjust the price of goods arbitrarily by controlling inflation.

More accurately, the government can use price controls to control the price of goods; or more commonly the govt. (via the central bank) can set interest rates to control inflation. In either case the price of money is NOT "arbitrary", it is related to the condition of the economy.

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It could decide to replace the currency with an otherwise identical currency worth 100X more or 100X less. Apples could cost 10c each or $10,000,000 and it would have no effect on the economy.

Except if an apple cost $10 million, the economy would be f**ked; not necessarily true if the apple cost close to the unit of money.

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And all of this has nothing to do with the point I am making, which you incorrectly think you are disproving. You are just too stupid to realise.

Careful ..did I mention 'mirror time'?

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freediver

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Re: foundations
Reply #497 - Mar 14^th, 2024 at 2:49pm

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Except if an apple cost $10 million, the economy would be f**ked

No it wouldn't, because the price is arbitrary. An apple probably will cost that much at some time long into the future, and not because the economy is struggling, but because it is doing so well. And the prices we pay today would seem equally incomprehensible to someone long enough in the past. When the Benz Patent-Motorwagon came out, it cost US$150 - an unaffordable luxury for all but the wealthiest.

Which is entirely beside the point. If the person with the apple thinks your money has no value at all, it doesn't matter what price you offer, he is not going to exchange the apple for money. His belief literally makes your money worthless in that negotiation. This is true regardless of whether you care what he thinks. And yet somehow you come to the idiotic conclusion that whether everyone else believes the money has value is irrelevant.

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« Last Edit: Mar 14^th, 2024 at 2:55pm by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: foundations
Reply #498 - Mar 14^th, 2024 at 4:29pm

When the Hungarian Pengo collapsed due to hyperinflation, (with the last highest note denominated at 100 Quintillion Pengo that would not even buy an apple), it was because the Hungarian people knew it was no longer backed by gold as the retreating Nazis had looted it the year before.

It was replaced by the Forint, which was once again backed by gold - that the Allies recovered from Germany and returned - gaining the confidence of the Hungarian people in their new currency

But here's the thing...

Did the Allies actually return the gold? Or did the Americans spirit it away to Fort Knox, (or the Soviets to Moscow), and persuade the Hungarian government to 'confirm' that Hungarian gold was in Hungarian possession?

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12449 Gender:	Re: foundations Reply #499 - Mar 14^th, 2024 at 4:42pm freediver wrote on Mar 14^th, 2024 at 2:49pm: Quote: Except if an apple cost $10 million, the economy would be f**ked No it wouldn't, because the price is arbitrary. Wrong again; in a functioning economy, the price of money must relate to the purchasing power of the average citizen's wage.
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freediver

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Re: foundations
Reply #500 - Mar 14^th, 2024 at 4:43pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 14^th, 2024 at 4:42pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 14^th, 2024 at 2:49pm:

Quote:

Except if an apple cost $10 million, the economy would be f**ked

No it wouldn't, because the price is arbitrary.

Wrong again; in a functioning economy, the price of money must relate to the purchasing power of the average citizen's wage.

Can you give the equation? Or is it just a whole lot of arm waving?

And what do you even mean by the price of money?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12449 Gender:	Re: foundations Reply #501 - Mar 14^th, 2024 at 4:45pm .
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thegreatdivide

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Re: foundations
Reply #502 - Mar 14^th, 2024 at 5:02pm

freediver wrote on Mar 14^th, 2024 at 4:43pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 14^th, 2024 at 4:42pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 14^th, 2024 at 2:49pm:

Quote:

Except if an apple cost $10 million, the economy would be f**ked

No it wouldn't, because the price is arbitrary.

Wrong again; in a functioning economy, the price of money must relate to the purchasing power of the average citizen's wage.

Can you give the equation? Or is it just a whole lot of arm waving?

You said it yourself: back in the day a Benz cost 150 Marks - a big sum at that time when the average wage was 50 pfennigs (or whatever), but not beyond a rich man's financial capacity.

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And what do you even mean by the price of money?

The same as you, ie the exchange value of money.

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And yet somehow you come to the idiotic conclusion that whether everyone else believes the money has value is irrelevant.

Your error there: you start out with "a person" who rejects your money; and turn it into "everyone" rejecting your money.

"Everyone" won't reject the nation's money, in a functioning economy.

Your "shared belief" fallacy debunked again.

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12449 Gender:	Re: foundations Reply #503 - Mar 14^th, 2024 at 5:03pm .
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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11796 Gender:	Re: foundations Reply #504 - Mar 14^th, 2024 at 5:08pm Is anyone really arguing that the chosen medium of exchange and amount need not have the confidence of all concerned parties - that it represents the appropriate value in that exchange?
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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11796 Gender:	Re: foundations Reply #505 - Mar 14^th, 2024 at 6:05pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 14^th, 2024 at 5:08pm: Is anyone really arguing that the chosen medium of exchange and amount need not have the confidence of all concerned parties - that it represents the appropriate value in that exchange? I guess not. And when there is doubt, there's the American dollar and/or precious metals.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: foundations
Reply #506 - Mar 14^th, 2024 at 10:30pm

Various things have held value for exchange over the years - slaves, women**, camels, goats ... you name it. Then someone invented the coin to denote the value of five goats or whatever... and then it began to vary... the silver groat became the value of ten goats ... the more precious the metal the more value was attached to the coin... hence our continuing silver and gold coinage... although these are fake silver and gold these days... a real gold dollar would be worth maybe $1200 ... so the face value is an artificial construct... if an imitation gold coin is actually worth a dollar then the mint minted it at too high a cost...

** That's why I slyly asked what the value of a coffle (a chained-together lineup) of trans women was .... two birds with one stone, so to speak, although I believe they remove both stones ... which leads us to the question - do radical Muslims stone transwomen for transgressing their transgender by cheating on their non-husbands etc?

To me a coffle of transwomen would be worthless.... I'd have no use for them....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: foundations
Reply #507 - Mar 14^th, 2024 at 11:05pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 14^th, 2024 at 6:05pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 14^th, 2024 at 5:08pm:

Is anyone really arguing that the chosen medium of exchange and amount need not have the confidence of all concerned parties - that it represents the appropriate value in that exchange?

I guess not.

And when there is doubt, there's the American dollar and/or precious metals.

Many third worlders, when assisting you in smuggling out agents and freed slaves and young girls who are about to be forced into marriage, want payment in American Dullah... value is in the eye of the beholder.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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freediver

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Re: foundations
Reply #508 - Mar 15^th, 2024 at 7:10am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 14^th, 2024 at 6:05pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 14^th, 2024 at 5:08pm:

Is anyone really arguing that the chosen medium of exchange and amount need not have the confidence of all concerned parties - that it represents the appropriate value in that exchange?

I guess not.

And when there is doubt, there's the American dollar and/or precious metals.

That's what TGD is arguing.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12449 Gender:	Re: foundations Reply #509 - Mar 15^th, 2024 at 9:42am MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 14^th, 2024 at 5:08pm: Is anyone really arguing that the chosen medium of exchange and amount need not have the confidence of all concerned parties - that it represents the appropriate value in that exchange? Ask FD.
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