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foundations (Read 34595 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: foundations
Reply #645 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 1:55pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 1:38pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 1:36pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 12:43pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 11:41am:
freediver wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 11:31am:
The only thing more dangerous than a Nazi trying to exterminate you is a communist trying to feed you.


FD confusing Stalin's communism, with rule of law engendering community wellbeing.

FD providing an excellent example of the crippled reasoning which follows his delusional ideology; which is why he is incapable of addressing the argument. 


I was thinking of the CCP. They starved 50 million Chinese people to death by trying to feed them all equally. Were you aware of that?


I know you were thinking of the CPP, given your ideologically crippled  brain, as I noted - which is why you can't answer the substance of my posts; at least Meister (mostly) tries....

Quote:
"..trying to feed them all equally. "



  another example of equality before the law going wrong, like people sleeping in city streets with 'equality before the law')




That is not what equality for the law means. Is there any word in the English language do you not fail to understand? You did pretty much the same thing with slavery.

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thegreatdivide
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Re: foundations
Reply #646 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 2:01pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 1:41pm:
Back when the CCP was busy starving 50 million of it's citizens to death by trying to feed them all equally, they actually had them convinced that they were wealthier than the Americans. They are still trying to same trick today.


Your ideologically crippled brain can't address the issue, ie  how to achieve shared prosperity.   

Xi is working hard to achieve it in China, but Western- trained PBofC economists are making it difficult.


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freediver
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Re: foundations
Reply #647 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 2:05pm
 
Quote:
Your ideologically crippled brain can't address the issue, ie  how to achieve shared prosperity.   

Xi is working hard to achieve it in China, but Western- trained PBofC economists are making it difficult.


That's what the opening post is all about. Western economists are making it very easy for Xi to make the Chinese people wealthier, by spelling it all out for him. Unfortunately that is not what Xi wants. The CCP is happy to sacrifice 50 million of their own citizens in their pursuit of power.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: foundations
Reply #648 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 2:46pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 12:40pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 11:51am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 11:39am:
That's not how true democracy works...  Ein Herr, Ein Vote, Ein Volk!!

That'd be: Ein Mann, eine Stimme, ein Volk


Yeah - I wasn't quoting literally - just making a point...


Neither was I. The original is 'Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer'.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: foundations
Reply #649 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 2:53pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 1:36pm:
at least Meister (mostly) tries....

How's that definition of freedom and its existence in nature going?
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Frank
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Re: foundations
Reply #650 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:13pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 11:18am:
Frank wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 10:54am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 10:17am:
And I'll bet you are a deluded 'natural individual rights' ideologue, even though the evidence says such "rights"  - which are the reason for the endless wars and entrenched poverty ruining our world -  don't exist in nature. 



Of course they exist in nature, that is why they are called natural rights.  Humanity IS part of nature. We are not a supernatural species.


Indeed, humanity IS part of nature's slaughter-house; hence Moses' authorization (which he said came from God)  of genocide against the nations who were resisting Jewish conquest of "the Promised Land".

But ideas evolve.... anyone for international law engendering shared prosperity?



So rights exist in nature, humanity being part of nature

But up until your sudden 'indeed humanity is part of nature' just now, you have been parrotting the exact opposite.


This just illustrates the totally shaky and flaky foundations of all your silly parrotting. You are mistaking slogans for solid premises and your manic words associations as reasoning.



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Frank
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Re: foundations
Reply #651 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:14pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 2:01pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 1:41pm:
Back when the CCP was busy starving 50 million of it's citizens to death by trying to feed them all equally, they actually had them convinced that they were wealthier than the Americans. They are still trying to same trick today.


Your ideologically crippled brain can't address the issue, ie  how to achieve shared prosperity.   

Xi is working hard to achieve it in China, but Western- trained PBofC economists are making it difficult.



isn't your idea ideologucal?

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: foundations
Reply #652 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:49pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 2:46pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 12:40pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 11:51am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 11:39am:
That's not how true democracy works...  Ein Herr, Ein Vote, Ein Volk!!

That'd be: Ein Mann, eine Stimme, ein Volk


Yeah - I wasn't quoting literally - just making a point...


Neither was I. The original is 'Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer'.


Not unless ve are discussing the actual possession of Ein Fuhrer - which we are not... though the precursors to the collapse of our soft-headed Weimar Republicans with their ineffective attempts at rule by decree are in clear evidence to the casual observer - and this may wall lead to the rise of Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer".  Pretty reasonably - "One man - One Vote - One People!"  No need for der Grammar Nazis when I am haffink a little fun mit words...

When democracy is killed off, all that is left is a mish-mash of meandering leftist ideas running by decree (as right here and now), or some strong man on a horse to come along and tear it all apart and then rule the same way - by decree.

Which holds the greater danger for society at large and for democracy at large?

Now then about that Mt Warning Decree - leading us back to the Ayers Rock Decree... and quite a few others along the way..... and an endless number to come.... by what divine right does any government decree that a natural feature in a National Park will become the exclusive playground of a tiny group of malcontents?

When will these tyrannical moves be brought to heel and to the bar for justice?

Geoffrey Robertson has a book around called "Who Owns History?" ... its basic premise is whether or not the appropriation of 'cultural' items and such from various cultures means the right to possession how resides with the current 'owner' - or with the original culture... now we are talking here about discrete and artificial items in the main - a few skeletons perhaps as well..... but how does a naturally occurring feature that has never moved fit into this 'ownership' debate?

I say a natural feature belongs to everyone under Open Range... it cannot be moved to a museum; it is by ho means an artifice 'belonging' to a tribe or culture - NOBODY can own it exclusively, which is precisely why it is National Park and requires no 'protection' since it is already protected by law that applies to all equally. furthermore - its cultural significance is now shared by the entirety of the population including visitors from Offshore (the way immigration is going those will soon cease to exist - there'll be none bloody left Offshore)....   Grin  Wink  Shocked  Cool           Cry  Cry  Cry


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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: foundations
Reply #653 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:54pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 2:53pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 1:36pm:
at least Meister (mostly) tries....

How's that definition of freedom and its existence in nature going?


... free food is provided equally to each in return for effort... to each according to need ... working wonders....every lion sleeps with a full belly... every warthog the same.... as long as each survives.....  just look at that innocence and trust of lion cubs just before they are killed off by the New Lion in the Pride.... a manifestation of freedom at the sperm level at its very basic ......
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: foundations
Reply #654 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 4:00pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:13pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 11:18am:
Frank wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 10:54am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 10:17am:
And I'll bet you are a deluded 'natural individual rights' ideologue, even though the evidence says such "rights"  - which are the reason for the endless wars and entrenched poverty ruining our world -  don't exist in nature. 



Of course they exist in nature, that is why they are called natural rights.  Humanity IS part of nature. We are not a supernatural species.


Indeed, humanity IS part of nature's slaughter-house; hence Moses' authorization (which he said came from God)  of genocide against the nations who were resisting Jewish conquest of "the Promised Land".

But ideas evolve.... anyone for international law engendering shared prosperity?



So rights exist in nature, humanity being part of nature

But up until your sudden 'indeed humanity is part of nature' just now, you have been parrotting the exact opposite.


This just illustrates the totally shaky and flaky foundations of all your silly parrotting. You are mistaking slogans for solid premises and your manic words associations as reasoning.






... not to mention 'back to the future' in trying to say that some form of international law will suddenly fix all the problems, just like giving Aborigines in a haze more money will elevate them to the better classes..... his 'international law' has been working wonders at keeping Hamas out of Israel, and worked wonders in Rwanda and a few other places... veritable paradises they were... until they were invaded and set to rights - not by a coalition of benevolent blue helmeted UNuchs - but by a stronger neighbour or coalition... Chad quietened down when the French Foreign Legion and paratroops got into it.... Sierra Leone became quiet once the British Army arrived.... no UNuchs there... or is it UNicorns?  Oh, look - a kamikaze saved Japan from Mongol invasion................
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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thegreatdivide
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Re: foundations
Reply #655 - Mar 19th, 2024 at 9:26am
 
Frank wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:14pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 2:01pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 1:41pm:
Back when the CCP was busy starving 50 million of it's citizens to death by trying to feed them all equally, they actually had them convinced that they were wealthier than the Americans. They are still trying to same trick today.


Your ideologically crippled brain can't address the issue, ie  how to achieve shared prosperity.   

Xi is working hard to achieve it in China, but Western- trained PBofC economists are making it difficult.


isn't your idea ideologucal?


Well...yes.

ei, the rational ideology of shared prosperity

cf with the irrational ideology of winner takes all, based on the delusional "natural individual rights" ideology of Western Classicism. 
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Re: foundations
Reply #656 - Mar 19th, 2024 at 9:27am
 
Quote:
ei, the rational ideology of shared prosperity


Is that the one that the CCP used to starve 50 million people to death by feeding them all equally?

Is there any meat on these ideological bones, or is it just whatever the current CCP policy is?
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thegreatdivide
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Re: foundations
Reply #657 - Mar 19th, 2024 at 9:34am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:49pm:
When democracy is killed off, ....


and replaced with benevolent authority in a consensus meritocracy, dedicated to shared prosperity and a modernized UNUDHR (which supercedes all -isms and 'sovereignty' bs), it will be a blessing, because  "democracy is the worst form of governement...."
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« Last Edit: Mar 19th, 2024 at 9:54am by thegreatdivide »  
 
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: foundations
Reply #658 - Mar 19th, 2024 at 9:39am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 19th, 2024 at 9:34am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:49pm:
[quote]When democracy is killed off, ....


and replaced with benevolent authority in a consensus meritocracy, dedicated to shared prosperity and a modernized UNUDHR (which supercedes all -isms and 'sovereignty' bs), it will be a blessing, because  "democracy is the worst form of governement...."

Define a consensus meritocracy.
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freediver
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Re: foundations
Reply #659 - Mar 19th, 2024 at 9:44am
 
I'm more interested in the benevolent authority part. I'm pretty sure he means benevolent dictatorship. Just another round of communism. Millions dead for the greater good. Perhaps 50 million dead Chinese wasn't enough and they have run out of fertiliser again.
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