Australian Politics Forum

Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 83720 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: foundations Reply #825 - Mar 24^th, 2024 at 2:01pm I didn't intend to address the argument... just give you back what you give out.... does it hurt?? DID-UMS
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 11785
Gender: male

Re: foundations
Reply #826 - Mar 24^th, 2024 at 2:56pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 1:41pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 10:25am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 10:23am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 9:59am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 9:53am:

Desirable, but they don't exist so long as the manifestion of power results in endless war, poverty, and refugeee crises - as in our unhappy world.

I don't know what your life is like, but I'm more than happy to live in a 21st-century Western liberal democracy than in any other society - both now and in any other society in history - as are millions who risk their lives to enter one.

Ah - the 'comfortable conservative' syndrome, ignoring the scourge of war and poverty affecting millions in our world (currently 100 million refugees).

How about the scourge of serfdom that has plagued nearly all of those who have ever lived?

Progress via two steps forward (invention), one step back
(war) .

But beware: US life expectancy has stalled while China's has caught up.

The acknowledgement of individual rights and their enshrinement into law was the death knell for serfdom.

So war is an inevitable consequence, not of individualism, but of invention, then?

Back to top

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11785 Gender:	Re: foundations Reply #827 - Mar 24^th, 2024 at 5:58pm .
Back to top	IP Logged

MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11785 Gender:	Re: foundations Reply #828 - Mar 24^th, 2024 at 5:58pm .
Back to top	IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 11785
Gender: male

Re: foundations
Reply #829 - Mar 24^th, 2024 at 6:01pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 2:56pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 1:41pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 10:25am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 10:23am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 9:59am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 9:53am:

Desirable, but they don't exist so long as the manifestion of power results in endless war, poverty, and refugeee crises - as in our unhappy world.

I don't know what your life is like, but I'm more than happy to live in a 21st-century Western liberal democracy than in any other society - both now and in any other society in history - as are millions who risk their lives to enter one.

Ah - the 'comfortable conservative' syndrome, ignoring the scourge of war and poverty affecting millions in our world (currently 100 million refugees).

How about the scourge of serfdom that has plagued nearly all of those who have ever lived?

Progress via two steps forward (invention), one step back
(war) .

But beware: US life expectancy has stalled while China's has caught up.

The acknowledgement of individual rights and their enshrinement into law was the death knell for serfdom.

So war is an inevitable consequence, not of individualism, but of invention, then?

So to extend the Chinese observation, necessity is the mother of invention and war is the grandchild?

Back to top

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 44470
Gender: male

Re: foundations
Reply #830 - Mar 24^th, 2024 at 7:56pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 1:53pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 11:30am:

[quote]You cannot wish away, Stalin or Mao style, that individual.

Indeed, but I would like to wish away your fallacy of composition; all is not each.

Which individuals are left out from the 'all' if 'all' does not include each individual??

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 83720 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: foundations Reply #831 - Mar 24^th, 2024 at 8:36pm . stamp out state voices
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 83720 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: foundations Reply #832 - Mar 24^th, 2024 at 8:39pm . Advisory:- radiation from a passing stealth glitch has been proven to be not harmful to human life or fertility including potency in men ....
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

Grappler Truth Teller Feller

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 83720
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male

Re: foundations
Reply #833 - Mar 24^th, 2024 at 8:43pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 6:01pm:

So to extend the Chinese observation, necessity is the mother of invention and war is the grandchild?

"The idea is to oppose one hundred with one, but to confront one with one hundred"....

"How do you personally achieve that?"

"Ha, ha - we use human wave attack.... costly, but principle is sound! Only peasant anyway."

Back to top

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

IP Logged

Grappler Truth Teller Feller

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 83720
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male

Re: foundations
Reply #834 - Mar 24^th, 2024 at 8:45pm

Frank wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 7:56pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 1:53pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 11:30am:

[quote]You cannot wish away, Stalin or Mao style, that individual.

Indeed, but I would like to wish away your fallacy of composition; all is not each.

Which individuals are left out from the 'all' if 'all' does not include each individual??

Enemies of the State... enemies of the people...... counter-revolutionaries..... rich peasants .... landlords ... capitalist roaders.... a few more.................. deemed to be at discretion of state to whom all are subject...... State know best for all!!

Back to top

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 44470
Gender: male

Re: foundations
Reply #835 - Mar 24^th, 2024 at 9:04pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 8:55am:

Frank wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2024 at 11:03am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2024 at 10:21am:

Frank wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2024 at 9:25am:

Why was there a Cultural Revolution in China and Stalinist repression in Russia when they were not at war with anyone yet tens of millions were killed by their very own "common prosperity and consensus ideologues"?
Please explain.

Did you miss it?

Economic and cultural mismagement.

But is that possible in a meritorious, consensus based, common prosperity planned economy and society?

Yes - especially at the beginning, when the vast majority of the population are living in absolute poverty, the administrators of the "consensus" can make mistakes.

So consensus administrators make 'mistakes' costing tens of millions of deaths by starvation. Who exactly agreed to that 'consesus'?

And who calls the deaths of tens of millions an "administrative mistake", FFS!!!

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 44470
Gender: male

Re: foundations
Reply #836 - Mar 24^th, 2024 at 9:29pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 9:59am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 9:53am:

Desirable, but they don't exist so long as the manifestion of power results in endless war, poverty, and refugeee crises - as in our unhappy world.

I don't know what your life is like, but I'm more than happy to live in a 21st-century Western liberal democracy than in any other society - both now and in any other society in history - as are millions who risk their lives to enter one.

Not too many foreigners risking their lives to go live in China or an African state, I'd bet.

Jean-François Revel (1924–2006) was the man who defined the Communist world as the first society in history condemned to live behind walls in order to stop people getting out.

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12448
Gender: male

Re: foundations
Reply #837 - Mar 25^th, 2024 at 1:08pm

Frank wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 7:56pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 1:53pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 11:30am:

[quote]You cannot wish away, Stalin or Mao style, that individual.

Indeed, but I would like to wish away your fallacy of composition; all is not each.

Which individuals are left out from the 'all' if 'all' does not include each individual??

(Gosh, no wonder you are having so much trouble with money having value - yet created ex nihilo....)

'All' DOES include each and every individual.

Maybe the English language here is the problem for you.... each (as an individual) is not everyone (as a community)

ie the English language is a bit tricky: each individual is one organism among the all, or everyone.

Back to top

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12448
Gender: male

Re: foundations
Reply #838 - Mar 25^th, 2024 at 1:18pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 6:01pm:

The acknowledgement of individual rights and their enshrinement into law was the death knell for serfdom.

Wrong of course; it was the death knell for the Divine Right of Kings.

And later on, the vision of shared prosperity (following Marx) was the death knell for 'indivudual rights'.

Quote:

So war is an inevitable consequence, not of individualism, but of invention, then?

No: invention creates technology which advances human prosperity, whereas war destroys life and property. Nothing inevitable about war, if men submit to rule of law which criminalizes war.

Quote:

So to extend the Chinese observation, necessity is the mother of invention and war is the grandchild?

Endless absurd questions; the former - yes, the latter, no, as noted above.

Back to top

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12448
Gender: male

Re: foundations
Reply #839 - Mar 25^th, 2024 at 1:24pm

Frank wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 9:04pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 8:55am:

Frank wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2024 at 11:03am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2024 at 10:21am:

Frank wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2024 at 9:25am:

Why was there a Cultural Revolution in China and Stalinist repression in Russia when they were not at war with anyone yet tens of millions were killed by their very own "common prosperity and consensus ideologues"?
Please explain.

Did you miss it?

Economic and cultural mismagement.

But is that possible in a meritorious, consensus based, common prosperity planned economy and society?

Yes - especially at the beginning, when the vast majority of the population are living in absolute poverty, the administrators of the "consensus" can make mistakes.

So consensus administrators make 'mistakes' costing tens of millions of deaths by starvation. Who exactly agreed to that 'consesus'?

Did you miss it?

The few administrators, at a time when no consensus existed among the 99% of the uneducated population living in absolute poverty.

Quote:

And who calls the deaths of tens of millions an "administrative mistake", FFS!!!

Me.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Mar 25^th, 2024 at 1:35pm by thegreatdivide »

IP Logged