Frank wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 2:08pm:

That's right.

Western cultures hold themselves to ridiculously high standards of secularism, human rights, rule of law, (non-gender-based) equality before the law, freedom of speech and movement, political accountability etc...

The vast majority of cultures have never, and do not today, hold themselves to those high standards.

Aussie wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 1:57pm:


If Israel abandoned those foundations and replaced them with standards similar to those in neighbouring countries, it would soon be similarly poor, powerless and oppressive.

power wealth and liberty are past their zenith and probably on the way down.

as the prime minister of malaysia said at the world economic forum in 2019

"the idea that several billion east asians can rise to the level of wealth and liberty that the west claim is not practical"
the west must descend to out level of consumption

the power is moving more and more to the stakeholder (not shareholder) capitalists.

the idea is that businesses respond, not to their shareholders , but to a management team , a coalition of elites and governments who will dictate the trajectory of people lives.

personal freedom is not possible in a world where the elites have now decided that sustainability is priority numero uno.

you will be free to buy what they allow you to buy, go where they allow you to go, own what they allow you to own.

as an advocate of "personal responsibility" who belives that governments should obey a 3 word constitution "leave me alone", i find that this mode of being(personal agency) is unattractive to most people.

when shwabb says "by 2030 , you will own nothing but you will be happy", he is really saying

reject personal responsibility
behave like a child
let big government and the big brains on campus(gates, zuck,clinton, merkel, trudeau,bezos,cook ,sundar,greta  ) decide what is good for you
and get on with pleasuring yourself


thats a very easy sell and most people will buy it.

the immigration crisis faceing almost every western country is just lubrication to move this process along. it makes everyone a bit poorer and less tribal (thats the theory)

when everyone is moderately poor and everyone is about equal and there is little to no prospect to shine , then people will just comply

Diversity, equity and inclusion are a big part of this

its a drive to the "lowest common denominator", but when i leave my farm and my alpha neighbours and go into town and walk around a shopping mall looking at all the fat sloppy "dead in the eyes" zombies , on their phones watching tiktok and chowing down on fries and coke, it is absolutely obvious that no one in such a durr state is able to put up any resitance and they will comply as long as they are fed and entertained.

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 2:19pm:


It does exist, but it's delusional, as I explained.

Spot the difference?

But explaining reality to someone  suffering delusions, eg the 'natural individual rights' delusion,  is extremely difficult...psych hospitals are full of such people... 

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 2:30pm:

Are you saying that you do not have natural individual rights?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 1:45pm:



yes but see my Reply #80.

Immigration has been a taboo subject and even now
it only got mentioned AFTER the Dunkley by-election
by the shadow immigration minister.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 2:50pm:



Sure - we need some immigration but not millions of people in only a few years.

Bobby. wrote on Mar 4^th, 2024 at 2:55pm:

'millions of people in only a few years', eh!

Define 'only a few years'... 60? or 6?