Australian Politics Forum - "Racism" is a social construct without evidence

Brian Ross

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"Racism" is a social construct without evidence
Mar 7^th, 2024 at 3:02pm

The title should actually be, "without scientific evidence" but forum limitations prevented me from being accurate. Genetically there is more differences between individuals than between various "racial" groups, "Racism" is a social construct, something dreamed up by anthropologists to justify their classification of the various "racial" groups based on superficial differences in skin colour/eye shape/hair frizziness/nose shape/lip thickness/etc. There are no major genetic differences between the various "races". Humans can all interbreed. The visible differences are because of environmental adaptation to conditions, nothing more. It does not denote anything major Genetically.

Genetics is the key, it is how we identify differences between groups of creatures, it is how we know a species is a species. There is only one human species, the homo homo sapiens and we are all members. Anything else is a social construct created by Racists. Eugenics is dead and buried. It was overturned by WWII and the destruction of the Nazi regime. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Frank

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Re: "Racism" is a social construct without evidence
Reply #1 - Mar 7^th, 2024 at 3:31pm

The whole of the human world is socially constructed, so to say that race is socially constructed says not much.

Language, history, science, biology, knowledge itself, manners, literature, diet, and the rest of it - all socially constructed. Ethnicity is socially onstructed and carries most of the cultural annotations of race.

While there is a clear hierarchy of ethnicities/cultures, there is also assimilation into a culture/ethncity, easier into some than others. So while you cannot change yourself from white to black, you can become a black professor of Asian or English literature and history, say.

You inherit both your racial characteristics and your ethnic/cultural characteristics. You can change the latter but not the former.

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11134 Gender:	Re: "Racism" is a social construct without evidence Reply #2 - Mar 7^th, 2024 at 3:59pm You inherit both your ethnic characteristics and your cultural characteristics. You can change the latter to a large degree but not the former.
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Brian Ross

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Re: "Racism" is a social construct without evidence
Reply #3 - Mar 7^th, 2024 at 4:27pm

Soren, unexpectantly you are only half accepting the message I am delivering. Hardly surprising, really because to fully accept it would demolish your heart's belief in "Race" as being inherently different. To you, if a person is Black/Asian/Amerindian, Indian, anything other than White, European, they are automatically inferior. Such foolishness, all based on a socially constructed falsehood that different "races" are well, different. If your son brought home an Indigenous Australian you'd be asking why he bothered. You wouldn't appreciate her for herself, you'd be asking questions about her skin colour. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Frank

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Re: "Racism" is a social construct without evidence
Reply #4 - Mar 7^th, 2024 at 6:58pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 7^th, 2024 at 3:59pm:

You inherit both your ethnic characteristics and your cultural characteristics. You can change the latter to a large degree but not the former.

I take ethnicity to be cultural. An ethic German, Check, Pole, Dane are racially indistinguishable. Culturally, historically etc they are quite different. They can assimilate into each other's cultures within a lifetime.

A Nigerian born in any of these countries may be very assimilated but as a black African he will be aware that he is not German, Dane, Pole etc even if he speaks only German, Danish etc.

There is a lot more complexity to this than DNA or biology.

One reason, and not the only one, is that like every other social construct, ethnicities, cultures ARE hierarchical. Not all cultures are equal, not all cultural comparisons are neutral or non-hierarchical. Social construct means hierarchy. So if ethnicity, culture, race, knowledge, art etc, etc are social constructs then they are hierarchical.
Discerning means telling the difference. Telling the difference means rank order.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: "Racism" is a social construct without evidence
Reply #5 - Mar 7^th, 2024 at 7:14pm

Frank wrote on Mar 7^th, 2024 at 6:58pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 7^th, 2024 at 3:59pm:

You inherit both your ethnic characteristics and your cultural characteristics. You can change the latter to a large degree but not the former.

I take ethnicity to be cultural. An ethic German, Check, Pole, Dane are racially indistinguishable. Culturally, historically etc they are quite different. They can assimilate into each other's cultures within a lifetime.

A Nigerian born in any of these countries may be very assimilated but as a black African he will be aware that he is not German, Dane, Pole etc even if he speaks only German, Danish etc.

There is a lot more complexity to this than DNA or biology.

One reason, and not the only one, is that like every other social construct, ethnicities, cultures ARE hierarchical. Not all cultures are equal, not all cultural comparisons are neutral or non-hierarchical. Social construct means hierarchy. So if ethnicity, culture, race, knowledge, art etc, etc are social constructs then they are hierarchical.
Discerning means telling the difference. Telling the difference means rank order.

As soon as foreign people, who emigrated from their homeland after their late teens, speak they will be identified as foreigners.

Accents are evidence that your cultural milieu alters you permanently physiologically.

People who speak a second language will tell you that they cannot think a certain way unless they're thinking in their first language.

This is evidence that your cultural milieu alters you permanently psychologically.

Immigrants can assimilate to a large degree, but rarely if ever, completely.

And, by the way, the ethnic and cultural German may think he's assimilated into Czech society but, as sure as sh!t ain't sugar, the Czech knows what a German is.

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Bias_2012

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Re: "Racism" is a social construct without evidence
Reply #6 - Mar 7^th, 2024 at 7:28pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 7^th, 2024 at 7:14pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 7^th, 2024 at 6:58pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 7^th, 2024 at 3:59pm:

You inherit both your ethnic characteristics and your cultural characteristics. You can change the latter to a large degree but not the former.

I take ethnicity to be cultural. An ethic German, Check, Pole, Dane are racially indistinguishable. Culturally, historically etc they are quite different. They can assimilate into each other's cultures within a lifetime.

A Nigerian born in any of these countries may be very assimilated but as a black African he will be aware that he is not German, Dane, Pole etc even if he speaks only German, Danish etc.

There is a lot more complexity to this than DNA or biology.

One reason, and not the only one, is that like every other social construct, ethnicities, cultures ARE hierarchical. Not all cultures are equal, not all cultural comparisons are neutral or non-hierarchical. Social construct means hierarchy. So if ethnicity, culture, race, knowledge, art etc, etc are social constructs then they are hierarchical.
Discerning means telling the difference. Telling the difference means rank order.

As soon as foreign people, who emigrated from their homeland after their late teens, speak they will be identified as foreigners.

Accents are evidence that your cultural milieu alters you permanently physiologically.

People who speak a second language will tell you that they cannot think a certain way unless they're thinking in their first language.

This is evidence that your cultural milieu alters you permanently psychologically.

Immigrants can assimilate to a large degree, but rarely if ever, completely.

And, by the way, the ethnic and cultural German may think he's assimilated into Czech society but, as sure as sh!t ain't sugar, the Czech knows what a German is.

That's correct ... and those differences will determine their personality and character in the new country

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Frank

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Re: "Racism" is a social construct without evidence
Reply #7 - Mar 7^th, 2024 at 7:51pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 7^th, 2024 at 7:14pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 7^th, 2024 at 6:58pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 7^th, 2024 at 3:59pm:

You inherit both your ethnic characteristics and your cultural characteristics. You can change the latter to a large degree but not the former.

I take ethnicity to be cultural. An ethic German, Check, Pole, Dane are racially indistinguishable. Culturally, historically etc they are quite different. They can assimilate into each other's cultures within a lifetime.

A Nigerian born in any of these countries may be very assimilated but as a black African he will be aware that he is not German, Dane, Pole etc even if he speaks only German, Danish etc.

There is a lot more complexity to this than DNA or biology.

One reason, and not the only one, is that like every other social construct, ethnicities, cultures ARE hierarchical. Not all cultures are equal, not all cultural comparisons are neutral or non-hierarchical. Social construct means hierarchy. So if ethnicity, culture, race, knowledge, art etc, etc are social constructs then they are hierarchical.
Discerning means telling the difference. Telling the difference means rank order.

As soon as foreign people, who emigrated from their homeland after their late teens, speak they will be identified as foreigners.

Accents are evidence that your cultural milieu alters you permanently physiologically.

People who speak a second language will tell you that they cannot think a certain way unless they're thinking in their first language.

This is evidence that your cultural milieu alters you permanently psychologically.

Immigrants can assimilate to a large degree, but rarely if ever, completely.

And, by the way, the ethnic and cultural German may think he's assimilated into Czech society but, as sure as sh!t ain't sugar, the Czech knows what a German is.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

Poles and Germans, Danes and Swedes, Germans and Dutch have lived side by side for centuries. They are acutely aware of their differences by they also have centuries of coexistence.

Germans and Turks, Somalis and Danes, Swedes and Iraqis do not.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: "Racism" is a social construct without evidence
Reply #8 - Mar 7^th, 2024 at 9:05pm

Frank wrote on Mar 7^th, 2024 at 7:51pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 7^th, 2024 at 7:14pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 7^th, 2024 at 6:58pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 7^th, 2024 at 3:59pm:

You inherit both your ethnic characteristics and your cultural characteristics. You can change the latter to a large degree but not the former.

I take ethnicity to be cultural. An ethic German, Check, Pole, Dane are racially indistinguishable. Culturally, historically etc they are quite different. They can assimilate into each other's cultures within a lifetime.

A Nigerian born in any of these countries may be very assimilated but as a black African he will be aware that he is not German, Dane, Pole etc even if he speaks only German, Danish etc.

There is a lot more complexity to this than DNA or biology.

One reason, and not the only one, is that like every other social construct, ethnicities, cultures ARE hierarchical. Not all cultures are equal, not all cultural comparisons are neutral or non-hierarchical. Social construct means hierarchy. So if ethnicity, culture, race, knowledge, art etc, etc are social constructs then they are hierarchical.
Discerning means telling the difference. Telling the difference means rank order.

As soon as foreign people, who emigrated from their homeland after their late teens, speak they will be identified as foreigners.

Accents are evidence that your cultural milieu alters you permanently physiologically.

People who speak a second language will tell you that they cannot think a certain way unless they're thinking in their first language.

This is evidence that your cultural milieu alters you permanently psychologically.

Immigrants can assimilate to a large degree, but rarely if ever, completely.

And, by the way, the ethnic and cultural German may think he's assimilated into Czech society but, as sure as sh!t ain't sugar, the Czech knows what a German is.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

Poles and Germans, Danes and Swedes, Germans and Dutch have lived side by side for centuries. They are acutely aware of their differences by they also have centuries of coexistence.

Germans and Turks, Somalis and Danes, Swedes and Iraqis do not.

The Ottoman Turks and Imperial Germany had close ties since the 19th century and were allies in WW1, Turkey maintained friendly ties and a trade relationship with Nazi Germany in WW2.

Germany is Turkey's closest ally in Europe.

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Brian Ross

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Re: "Racism" is a social construct without evidence
Reply #9 - Mar 7^th, 2024 at 9:07pm

I notice, Soren that you seem to have finally accepted there are no major Genetic differences between the various "races". Good. Now you are concentrating on Ethic and Cultural differences. However those differences are not Genetic. They are social constructs. As social constructs they can be changed by individuals if they so wish. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Frank

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Re: "Racism" is a social construct without evidence
Reply #10 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 7:49am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 7^th, 2024 at 9:05pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 7^th, 2024 at 7:51pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 7^th, 2024 at 7:14pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 7^th, 2024 at 6:58pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 7^th, 2024 at 3:59pm:

You inherit both your ethnic characteristics and your cultural characteristics. You can change the latter to a large degree but not the former.

I take ethnicity to be cultural. An ethic German, Check, Pole, Dane are racially indistinguishable. Culturally, historically etc they are quite different. They can assimilate into each other's cultures within a lifetime.

A Nigerian born in any of these countries may be very assimilated but as a black African he will be aware that he is not German, Dane, Pole etc even if he speaks only German, Danish etc.

There is a lot more complexity to this than DNA or biology.

One reason, and not the only one, is that like every other social construct, ethnicities, cultures ARE hierarchical. Not all cultures are equal, not all cultural comparisons are neutral or non-hierarchical. Social construct means hierarchy. So if ethnicity, culture, race, knowledge, art etc, etc are social constructs then they are hierarchical.
Discerning means telling the difference. Telling the difference means rank order.

As soon as foreign people, who emigrated from their homeland after their late teens, speak they will be identified as foreigners.

Accents are evidence that your cultural milieu alters you permanently physiologically.

People who speak a second language will tell you that they cannot think a certain way unless they're thinking in their first language.

This is evidence that your cultural milieu alters you permanently psychologically.

Immigrants can assimilate to a large degree, but rarely if ever, completely.

And, by the way, the ethnic and cultural German may think he's assimilated into Czech society but, as sure as sh!t ain't sugar, the Czech knows what a German is.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

Poles and Germans, Danes and Swedes, Germans and Dutch have lived side by side for centuries. They are acutely aware of their differences by they also have centuries of coexistence.

Germans and Turks, Somalis and Danes, Swedes and Iraqis do not.

The Ottoman Turks and Imperial Germany had close ties since the 19th century and were allies in WW1, Turkey maintained friendly ties and a trade relationship with Nazi Germany in WW2.

Germany is Turkey's closest ally in Europe.

It doesn't mean they couldn't tell each other apart. Trade relatioethnic or cultural differences disappear.

Anyway, I wonder what Sam Kerr means when she said to the cop, 'Stupid white cop". A white person would never say that to another. She obviously used is as a racial epithet.
What is the objectionable word out of those three? It is not 'cop' (she says she didn't call him bastard). It must be either stupid or white or both.

What if someone said 'it was a stupid half-Indian thing for her to say to a white person".
Could she or anyone else object to such a formulation?

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Frank

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Re: "Racism" is a social construct without evidence
Reply #11 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 7:50am

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 7^th, 2024 at 9:07pm:

I notice, Soren that you seem to have finally accepted there are no major Genetic differences between the various "races". Good. Now you are concentrating on Ethic and Cultural differences. However those differences are not Genetic. They are social constructs. As social constructs they can be changed by individuals if they so wish. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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« Last Edit: Mar 8^th, 2024 at 9:25am by Frank »

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JC Denton Gold Member Offline Posts: 5459 Gender:	Re: "Racism" is a social construct without evidence Reply #12 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 7:58am hey brian did you go crying to freediver to get my signature with your embarrassing self-own quotation removed?
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: "Racism" is a social construct without evidence
Reply #13 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 8:14am

Frank wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 7:49am:

Anyway, I wonder what Sam Kerr means when she said to the cop, 'Stupid white cop". A white person would never say that to another. She obviously used is as a racial epithet.
What is the objectionable word out of those three? It is not 'cop' (she says she didn't call him bastard). It must be either stupid or white or both.

What if someone said 'it was a stupid half-Indian thing for her to say to a white person".
Could she or anyone else object to such a formulation?

The black/white 'race' thing is an Americanism - promoted globally by easily the dumbest f~cks in the Anglosphere.

Case in point: Hispanics being characterised as 'white'.

No European characterises each other as white in Europe when referring to themselves, any more than Africans do about themselves in Africa - something that comes as a genuine shock to African-Americans who emigrate there.

Australian culture is particularly susceptible to Americanisms, so it shouldn't be much of a surprise when our dumb f~cks imitate American dumb f~cks.

As for Kerr, insofar as her Indian heritage influences her, she is very much expressing the Indian obsession with skin colour.

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JC Denton

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Re: "Racism" is a social construct without evidence
Reply #14 - Mar 8^th, 2024 at 8:19am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 8:14am:

Frank wrote on Mar 8^th, 2024 at 7:49am:

Anyway, I wonder what Sam Kerr means when she said to the cop, 'Stupid white cop". A white person would never say that to another. She obviously used is as a racial epithet.
What is the objectionable word out of those three? It is not 'cop' (she says she didn't call him bastard). It must be either stupid or white or both.

What if someone said 'it was a stupid half-Indian thing for her to say to a white person".
Could she or anyone else object to such a formulation?

The black/white 'race' thing is an Americanism - promoted globally by easily the dumbest f~cks in the Anglosphere.

Case in point: Hispanics being characterised as 'white'.

No European characterises each other as white in Europe when referring to themselves, any more than Africans do about themselves in Africa - something that comes as a genuine shock to African-Americans who emigrate there.

Australian culture is particularly susceptible to Americanisms, so it shouldn't be much of a surprise when our dumb f~cks imitate American dumb f~cks.

hispanics arent characterised as white, 'hispanic' is a census category in the u.s that pertains specifically to linguistic/cultural origin; you can nominate other ethnic categories in addition to 'hispanic', hence 'non-white hispanic %' and 'white hispanic %'. hispanics can be white or any other racial category depending on their nomination

https://www.census.gov/acs/www/about/why-we-ask-each-question/ethnicity/#:~:text...

yet another post where you don't know what you're talking about but could have spent two seconds googling beforehand instead

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