Australian Politics Forum - Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49081 At my desk.	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #195 - Mar 16^th, 2024 at 3:35pm Quote: why would you need to dig up spent fuel? Why did you ask me this Lee?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Offline

Representative of me

Posts: 41942

Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #196 - Mar 16^th, 2024 at 3:55pm

lee wrote on Mar 16^th, 2024 at 12:31pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 16^th, 2024 at 11:25am:

I understand they are making inroads into energy generation with renewables in many developed countries.

Making inroads? Does that somehow transform them from being weather dependant?

BTW - You said that hydrogen energy will be complementary to other renewables. BUT the green hydrogen comes from a solar farm, so in reality it is a parasitic load. Roll Eyes

Except, hydrogen can be stored, once generated, Lee, so there if can be used when the weather doesn't work for the other renewables, so therefore it is not "parasitic" at all. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

philperth2010

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20401
Perth
Gender: male

Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #197 - Mar 16^th, 2024 at 5:17pm

Australia cannot deal with the radioactive waste it already has???

Quote:

Australia’s nuclear waste is growing as battle over dump site heats up

Government says nuclear waste cannot continue to build up and it will work with traditional custodians of proposed Kimba site

Australia is accumulating more intermediate-level nuclear waste than previously thought, a new inventory has found, as the battle over a nuclear waste dump heats up.

After 40 years of different governments talking about a national nuclear waste facility, the Morrison government chose a site near the town of Kimba in South Australia. But the local Barngarla people are united against the plan, and have vowed to keep fighting to stop it happening.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/oct/14/australias-nuclear-waste-...

Back to top

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)

IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 17692
Gender: male

Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #198 - Mar 16^th, 2024 at 5:59pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 16^th, 2024 at 3:55pm:

Except, hydrogen can be stored, once generated, Lee, so there if can be used when the weather doesn't work for the other renewables, so therefore it is not "parasitic" at all.

Of course it is parasitic - it needs green energy to get a lesser green energy, unless of course you had a lossless system. It lives off its host. And nowhere in the world is there one at the same scale. 10 times bigger. The challenges get 10 times bigger. You would get more bang for your buck just using the solar. Wink

Just how much "spare" do you think will be to "store"?

Back to top

IP Logged

Belgarion

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 5428
Gender: male

Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #199 - Mar 16^th, 2024 at 6:35pm

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 16^th, 2024 at 5:17pm:

Australia cannot deal with the radioactive waste it already has???

Quote:

Australia’s nuclear waste is growing as battle over dump site heats up

Government says nuclear waste cannot continue to build up and it will work with traditional custodians of proposed Kimba site

Australia is accumulating more intermediate-level nuclear waste than previously thought, a new inventory has found, as the battle over a nuclear waste dump heats up.

After 40 years of different governments talking about a national nuclear waste facility, the Morrison government chose a site near the town of Kimba in South Australia. But the local Barngarla people are united against the plan, and have vowed to keep fighting to stop it happening.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/oct/14/australias-nuclear-waste-...

Simple. No one in Australia ever has an x ray again. Roll Eyes

Back to top

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49081 At my desk.	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #200 - Mar 16^th, 2024 at 7:14pm Lee what do you think half life means? Why do you think we store radioactive waste? Why did you ask me about the reason for digging up radiative waste?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Offline

Representative of me

Posts: 41942

Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #201 - Mar 16^th, 2024 at 8:04pm

lee wrote on Mar 16^th, 2024 at 5:59pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 16^th, 2024 at 3:55pm:

Except, hydrogen can be stored, once generated, Lee, so there if can be used when the weather doesn't work for the other renewables, so therefore it is not "parasitic" at all.

Of course it is parasitic - it needs green energy to get a lesser green energy, unless of course you had a lossless system. It lives off its host. And nowhere in the world is there one at the same scale. 10 times bigger. The challenges get 10 times bigger. You would get more bang for your buck just using the solar. Wink

Just how much "spare" do you think will be to "store"?

Sufficient to allow smelting of steel and copper ore to occur and export of hydrogen, as required, Lee. You really are scrabbling now, aren't you? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 17692
Gender: male

Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #202 - Mar 17^th, 2024 at 1:01pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 16^th, 2024 at 8:04pm:

Sufficient to allow smelting of steel and copper ore to occur and export of hydrogen, as required, Lee.

The Whyalla facility is listed as 160t. It draws about 70KVA. It will of course be one of several who get the part of hydrogen. 24 hours at 70KVA is about 1.68MWh. So if it were standalone it would be feasible. What didn't you understand about wind and solar droughts? What don't you understand about embrittlement? What do you not understand about porosity and leakage?

Which ships will be floating timebombs? Hydrogen explodes at a wide range of differing ratios.

BTW- Have a look at Whyalla Cloudy, overcast and precipitation days. They all impact solar panels.

https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/historyclimate/climatemodelled/whyalla_aust...

Back to top

« Last Edit: Mar 17^th, 2024 at 1:12pm by lee »

IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 17692
Gender: male

Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #203 - Mar 17^th, 2024 at 1:06pm

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2024 at 7:14pm:

Lee what do you think half life means?

I know what it means. The half life of a decaying substance is calculated on a diminishing value exponential curve. A half cycle can be equivalent to one time period (Tau). It means it has lost the equivalent of half its power. The next time period takes another half of what is left, and so on. That's why I asked you about how many time periods for radioactive materials to be safe? Roll Eyes

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2024 at 7:14pm:

Why do you think we store radioactive waste?

We store radioactive waste once the fuel (usable source) is depleted. It is stored for safety. We don't want amateur chemists like Bwian to get their hands on it. Roll Eyes

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2024 at 7:14pm:

Why did you ask me about the reason for digging up radiative waste?

Why not? Do you have a use for it? Roll Eyes

Back to top

IP Logged

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17692 Gender:	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #204 - Mar 17^th, 2024 at 1:51pm More on Cultana Solar Park. It is a single axis tracker design which gives a greater time for power generation. Its nameplate capacity is 280MW. But they are dreaming if they think they will get 250MW out of it. That would give it a capacity factor of 90%.
Back to top	IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Offline

Representative of me

Posts: 41942

Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #205 - Mar 17^th, 2024 at 2:00pm

lee wrote on Mar 17^th, 2024 at 1:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 16^th, 2024 at 8:04pm:

Sufficient to allow smelting of steel and copper ore to occur and export of hydrogen, as required, Lee.

The Whyalla facility is listed as 160t. It draws about 70KVA. It will of course be one of several who get the part of hydrogen. 24 hours at 70KVA is about 1.68MWh. So if it were standalone it would be feasible. What didn't you understand about wind and solar droughts? What don't you understand about embrittlement? What do you not understand about porosity and leakage?

Which ships will be floating timebombs? Hydrogen explodes at a wide range of differing ratios.

BTW- Have a look at Whyalla Cloudy, overcast and precipitation days. They all impact solar panels.

https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/historyclimate/climatemodelled/whyalla_aust...

Why use "stimulated" weather when real weather data is available, Lee. Just head over to the Bureau of Meteorology. It has all the data you need. You've never visited Whyalla have you, Lee? I've spent many weeks just outside at Cultana on military exercises and I can still navigate around the area based on my knowledge. You should try it, it might educate you. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 17692
Gender: male

Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #206 - Mar 17^th, 2024 at 2:25pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 17^th, 2024 at 2:00pm:

Why use "stimulated" weather when real weather data is available, Lee. Just head over to the Bureau of Meteorology.

And how many days per month do they say?

BTW - Did you read up on Cultana? According to PV magazine Single axis tracking systems may get up to 30% capacity factor. That's only 84MW.

84MW is a long way short of their claimed 200MW of hydrogen.

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49081
At my desk.

Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #207 - Mar 17^th, 2024 at 2:26pm

lee wrote on Mar 16^th, 2024 at 12:36pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2024 at 12:33pm:

Would you like to have another go at telling us how long you think the radioactive waste needs to be stored for?

However long it takes depending entirely upon its composition.
But realistically, forever, why would you need to dig up spent fuel? Roll Eyes

How much do you think it costs to store something forever?

lee wrote on Mar 16^th, 2024 at 1:56pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2024 at 1:31pm:

Do you understand why radioactive waste is stored?

Yes. So how many time constants would you have it stored? 3? 4? Using an LNT model or something else?

Why did you suggest 3 or 4? Do you think that would be enough?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17692 Gender:	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #208 - Mar 17^th, 2024 at 2:27pm freediver wrote on Mar 17^th, 2024 at 2:26pm: How much do you think it costs to store something forever? Once it is stored underground absolutely nothing.
Back to top	IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49081 At my desk.	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #209 - Mar 17^th, 2024 at 2:28pm lee wrote on Mar 17^th, 2024 at 2:27pm: freediver wrote on Mar 17^th, 2024 at 2:26pm: How much do you think it costs to store something forever? Once it is stored underground absolutely nothing. So why don't we just throw it in with domestic garbage? That also ends up underground.
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged