Australian Politics Forum - Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17692 Gender:	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #240 - Mar 17^th, 2024 at 8:43pm White flag accepted.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17692 Gender:	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #241 - Mar 17^th, 2024 at 8:44pm freediver wrote on Mar 17^th, 2024 at 6:46pm: . It is already too expensive, and we have not even figured out how to store the waste safely. Nowhere have you given figures showing it is too expensive.
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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 41942	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #242 - Mar 17^th, 2024 at 9:16pm lee wrote on Mar 17^th, 2024 at 8:43pm: White flag accepted.
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freediver

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #243 - Mar 17^th, 2024 at 9:49pm

lee wrote on Mar 17^th, 2024 at 8:44pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 17^th, 2024 at 6:46pm:

. It is already too expensive, and we have not even figured out how to store the waste safely.

Nowhere have you given figures showing it is too expensive.

I linked the wikipedia article for you that had the prices for all different sorts of power. You even started quoting from the link I gave. Have you forgotten all that already? It was not that long ago.

How long do you think we would have to store nuclear waste for, and how much would that cost?

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JC Denton

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #244 - Mar 18^th, 2024 at 12:23am

there's probably no credible solution to australia's energy cost issues going forward. fossil fuels have hideous externalities associated, renewables seem unreliable with a lot of questionable hidden costs. material living standards are not going to be be as high in the future as they may have been in the past and life will go on.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49081 At my desk.	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #245 - Mar 18^th, 2024 at 4:50am Just because the cost of electricity goes up?
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JC Denton Gold Member Offline Posts: 5471 Gender:	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #246 - Mar 18^th, 2024 at 7:41am yes having to pay more in real terms for something is generally a reduction in your material living standards
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Frank

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #247 - Mar 18^th, 2024 at 8:50am

The International Energy Agency – no global warming sceptic – has specifically said a full renewable grid is not deliverable with existing technologies.

Bowen and billionaire mate Twiggy Forest spruik green hydrogen but viable technology to produce it profitably does not yet exist. That’s why Twiggy, who bags nuclear, is travelling the world looking for government subsidies.

Bowen also fails to discuss how the cost of a single nuclear reactor and the time needed to build it compare with Snowy 2.0. Former prime minister Malcolm Turnbull’s “battery for the nation” is likely to cost $20bn rather than the original forecast of $2bn and take 10 years to build rather than the original estimate of four years.

This column reported in February 2022 former Energy Security Board chief Kerry Schott saying Australia needed another 20 such pumped hydro projects to firm up the grid. That could build a lot of nuclear capacity given the four newly commissioned reactors at the United Arab Emirates Barakah project were built in 10 years for $US20bn by its Korean contractor.

The original plan for grid firming in Australia was to establish gas peaking plants that are less carbon intensive than coal, and can be turned on and off quickly. Having signed up to such plans under the Gillard Labor government, the Greens quickly backflipped against gas.

The Coalition should fight the politics of renewables on gas firming and drive a wedge through the green movement on the damage large wind projects, city-sized solar array plans and the network build are doing to the natural environment. Former Greens leader Bob Brown has already criticised Tasmanian wind projects for the environmental damage they cause.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/peter-duttons-nuclear-push-makes...

There will be no nuclear energy without bipartisan support.

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whiteknight Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8201 melbourne Gender:	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #248 - Mar 18^th, 2024 at 10:21am Australia should not go down the dangerous, and expensive nuclear path. We should be thinking about more renewables. Thanks Mr Bowen for keeping the nuclear ban. If people want nuclear, then take it to the election in 2025, and decide that way.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49081 At my desk.	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #249 - Mar 18^th, 2024 at 11:26am JC Denton wrote on Mar 18^th, 2024 at 7:41am: yes having to pay more in real terms for something is generally a reduction in your material living standards The real price of many things has been going up forever. Like real estate and human labour.
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JC Denton

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #250 - Mar 18^th, 2024 at 11:41am

freediver wrote on Mar 18^th, 2024 at 11:26am:

JC Denton wrote on Mar 18^th, 2024 at 7:41am:

yes

having to pay more in real terms for something is generally a reduction in your material living standards

The real price of many things has been going up forever. Like real estate and human labour.

not really forever

real estate has gone through cyclical booms and busts but only seriously started severely exploding relative to incomes, in australia at least, in the last 25~ years

it has in fact had a fairly serious impact on material living standards, which is why you constantly hear endless talk about the so-called "housing crisis" on tv

doesn't seem unreasonable to think that w/o some breakthrough technology i.e fusion power we're not going to see a viable resolution to real rises in energy costs, including from this phony nuclear panacea which 99% chance will never happen anyway

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lee

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #251 - Mar 18^th, 2024 at 1:24pm

freediver wrote on Mar 17^th, 2024 at 9:49pm:

I linked the wikipedia article for you that had the prices for all different sorts of power.

And then when I quoited a section to you backed up. Roll Eyes

freediver wrote on Mar 17^th, 2024 at 9:49pm:

How long do you think we would have to store nuclear waste for, and how much would that cost?

Already answered. And for someone who is so anti why don't you have any of the answers?

lee wrote on Mar 13^th, 2024 at 6:08pm:

More from your ref -
"Real life costs can diverge significantly from those estimates. Olkiluoto block 3, which achieved first criticality in late 2021 had an overnight cost to the construction consortium (the utility paid a fixed price agreed to when the deal was signed of only 3.2 billion euros) of €8.5 billion and a net electricity capacity of 1.6 GW or €5310 per kW of capacity.[26] Meanwhile Darlington Nuclear Generating Station in Canada had an overnight cost of CA$5.117 billion for a net electric capacity of 3512 MW or CA$1,457 per kW of capacity."

CAD to Euro multiply 1.5

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49081 At my desk.	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #252 - Mar 18^th, 2024 at 1:27pm Quote: Already answered. Yes. Multiple times. Each answer wildly different from the last. Each uncosted. How long do you think we would have to store nuclear waste for, and how much would that cost?
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17692 Gender:	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #253 - Mar 18^th, 2024 at 1:29pm freediver wrote on Mar 18^th, 2024 at 1:27pm: Yes. Multiple times. Each answer wildly different from the last. Each uncosted. The level of decay is not related to cost. As I said it cost nothing to store. IF you have a different figure provide it.
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freediver

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #254 - Mar 18^th, 2024 at 1:33pm

Quote:

As I said it cost nothing to store. IF you have a different figure provide it.

This is even more naive than your 5 year build claim. No wonder you swallow everything the coalition feeds you. Do you think Peter Dutton is planning on zero cost waste storage?

Who is offering to store radioactive waste for free?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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