Australian Politics Forum - Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream

Frank

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #300 - Mar 20^th, 2024 at 11:59am

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2024 at 6:38pm:

Were you simply trying to deceive everyone when you left the most common, and cheapest price for wind power out of your comparison with nuclear? Do you think the coalition is as duplicitous as you when it comes to electricity costs, because they are appealing to the "easily confused" demographic?

The Albanese Government quietly dropped anti-dumping action against imported Chinese windmills ahead of Foreign Minister Wang Yi’s visit to Australia, in what is being hailed by Beijing as a “good gesture” and a sign Canberra is distancing itself from the “anti-China position” of the United States.

Climate politics, eh?

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49074 At my desk.	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #301 - Mar 20^th, 2024 at 12:34pm Were the Chinese attempting to subsidise our electricity for us?
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Frank

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #302 - Mar 20^th, 2024 at 12:41pm

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2024 at 12:34pm:

Were the Chinese attempting to subsidise our electricity for us?

Just the shoddy turbines, for now.
They did want to buy the grid, though. Or whatever infrastructure they can get their chopsticks on.

We have a FTA with them but they cheat and lie and bully, boycott certain product, demand this and demand that.

If we had nuclear, coal, gas, hydro energy we wouldn't be reliant on chinese industrial junk in the form of wind turbines and solar panels. How good that would be?

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49074 At my desk.	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #303 - Mar 20^th, 2024 at 12:42pm 'Dumping' refers to selling at below cost price, right?
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lee

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #304 - Mar 20^th, 2024 at 2:10pm

Meanwhile Ørsted who cancelled contracts and paid the fees has been accepted for new contracts. At a premium. The New price is USD 150.15/ MWh

So they will get $150.15 per whether they produce 2MWh or 20MWh.

And then get paid for actually producing electricity by selling to the market. So they can sell low and make that $150.15 as well. Roll Eyes

And this is for only 1700 MW of capacity. Previously they had accepted bids for 4300 MW of capacity, and plans for 9000 MW.

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freediver

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #305 - Mar 20^th, 2024 at 2:18pm

Do you think the coalition wants to outdo them for wasting taxpayers money?

Were you simply trying to deceive everyone when you left the most common, and cheapest price for wind power out of your comparison with nuclear? Do you think the coalition is as duplicitous as you when it comes to electricity costs, because they are appealing to the "easily confused" demographic?

Why do you insist it is free to store radioactive waste, and up to others to prove otherwise? Who do you think is offering to store radioactive waste for free? Do you think the coalition's plan involves dumping nuclear waste in the nearest creek?

Why do you think we should go with nuclear, despite the dangers and unsolved problems with the waste, and our lack of experience with it, when it is already one of the most expensive options, and the others are all getting cheaper at such a rate that nuclear is close to being obsolete?

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17678 Gender:	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #306 - Mar 20^th, 2024 at 2:32pm "Taxpayers to subsidise renewable energy projects as government concedes Australia set to miss targets" https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-23/australian-taxpayers-to-subsidise-renewab...
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Frank

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #307 - Mar 20^th, 2024 at 2:40pm

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2024 at 2:18pm:

Why do you think we should go with nuclear, despite the dangers and unsolved problems with the waste, and our lack of experience with it, when it is already one of the most expensive options, and the others are all getting cheaper at such a rate that nuclear is close to being obsolete?

You should summon the US, UK, France, China etc to your office and tell them. They don't seem to know any of this so they are building more nuclear power stations.

Like every other aspect of 'climate' , nuclear energy is first and second political. The book keeping is complex because of subsidies, direct and indirect.
Wind and solar are not constant (dispatchable) like hydro, coal, gas, nuclear. Nor are they concentrated, hence the need for massive new grids to transport solar and wind from the desert and from offshore and scattered remote areas. They disfigure the landscape near human settlements.

That there is no rational, good faith discussion about the realities of energy shows just how emotionally fraught and often irrational most discussion is with green zealots and 'climate action' maniacs.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49074 At my desk.	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #308 - Mar 20^th, 2024 at 2:45pm Quote: They don't seem to know any of this so they are building more nuclear power stations. They already have an established industry. The ones they are building now may well be the last.
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Frank

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #309 - Mar 20^th, 2024 at 2:55pm

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2024 at 2:45pm:

Quote:

They don't seem to know any of this so they are building more nuclear power stations.

They already have an established industry. The ones they are building now may well be the last.

Why bother if nuclear is almost obsolete?

We have a coal and gas fired energy industry - can we build a few more if we promise they may well be the last?
China, India, Indonesia etc are also building them .

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49074 At my desk.	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #310 - Mar 20^th, 2024 at 3:04pm Gas would make sense. It has much lower GHG emissions than coal, and generally works better at supplying irregular peak demand, so would be a good one to throw in the mix with renewables and various storage options.
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lee

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #311 - Mar 20^th, 2024 at 3:36pm

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2024 at 3:04pm:

Gas would make sense.

Not to lefty politicians.

"Labor has no fix for gas supply shortfall, says industry"

https://www.afr.com/policy/energy-and-climate/labor-has-no-fix-for-gas-supply-sh...

"It’s time to make it clear to Labor: no more gas in a climate crisis."

https://greens.org.au/campaigns/no-more-coal-gas

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Frank

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #312 - Mar 21^st, 2024 at 9:16am

lee wrote on Mar 20^th, 2024 at 3:36pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2024 at 3:04pm:

Gas would make sense.

Not to lefty politicians.

"Labor has no fix for gas supply shortfall, says industry"

https://www.afr.com/policy/energy-and-climate/labor-has-no-fix-for-gas-supply-sh...

"It’s time to make it clear to Labor: no more gas in a climate crisis."

https://greens.org.au/campaigns/no-more-coal-gas

Urgent action needed if Australia is to avoid catastrophic gas shortfall, operator warns

Gas generators may be forced to burn diesel to keep the power grid running after authorities warned that states face a catastrophic supply shortfall from next year unless new sources of supply are developed.

The Australian Energy Market Operator revealed that gas generators could have to run on diesel through to 2026 during periods of high demand, due to the lack of gas on the east coast.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/urgent-action-needed-if-australia-is-to-...

Cheesy

Diesel, like all refined fuels, is imported. Australia's energy policy is a total shambolic mess, all because of Gretaesque posturing and ideology.

Housing, immigration, defence, training and education - ditto.
Too much money, not enough sense.

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 41920	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #313 - Mar 22^nd, 2024 at 11:00am Dick Smith says no country has ever been able to run entirely on renewables. Is that correct? conclusion - false.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17678 Gender:	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #314 - Mar 22^nd, 2024 at 12:19pm Brian Ross wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2024 at 11:00am: Dick Smith says no country has ever been able to run entirely on renewables. Is that correct? conclusion - false. So tell us which country or countries run(s) ENTIRELY on renewables.
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