Australian Politics Forum - Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream

philperth2010

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #75 - Mar 13^th, 2024 at 3:12pm

Belgarion wrote on Mar 13^th, 2024 at 10:22am:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2024 at 9:06am:

The whole proposal is bonkers!!!

Quote:

'Will be starting from scratch': Report paints grim picture of Australia's long road to nuclear power

A four-year-old report on Australia's nuclear power prospects has cast doubt over Opposition Leader Peter Dutton's plan to introduce a nuclear industry in the country if elected, with the study claiming it would take "decades" to build the workforce required and is "naive" to think a power plant could be built in less than 20 years.

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/will-be-starting-from-scratch-report-p...

The negativity and ignorance in some people is palpable. India has nuclear power... Pakistan has nuclear power.... South Africa has nuclear power.....Bangladesh is building nuclear power plants! Yet all these naysayers reckon it can't be done here. Roll Eyes

Who is saying it cannot be done here mate....Nuclear will not happen without bi partisan support from both major parties....Nuclear would take too long to build up to 20 years....Nuclear is the most expensive power source available....Nuclear waste is expensive to dispose of and dangerous to transport....What does Australia do for the next decade pluss whilst Dutton pursues his thought bubble....Two weeks ago it was SMR's now once Dutton realised they do not exist yet he has gone fully Nuclear....How can you support such a stupid idea that was only trashed out a month ago with no costings no feasability study and zero support from most experts....We will be paying to store this waste for centuries you do realize that don't you???

Roll Eyes

Quote:

Stanford-led research finds small modular reactors will exacerbate challenges of highly radioactive nuclear waste

https://news.stanford.edu/2022/05/30/small-modular-reactors-produce-high-levels-...

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Brian Ross

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #76 - Mar 13^th, 2024 at 3:30pm

Belgarion wrote on Mar 13^th, 2024 at 12:19pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 13^th, 2024 at 11:19am:

lee wrote on Mar 12^th, 2024 at 9:30pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 12^th, 2024 at 7:51pm:

Mosaic G2 was later described as an "exceptionally dirty explosion", whose fallout contaminated large areas of mainland Australia, as far away as the Queensland towns of Mount Isa, Julia Creek, Longreach and Rockhampton.

And the fatalities or cancers from that? Roll Eyes

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 12^th, 2024 at 7:51pm:

Yeah, real safe, hey, Lee?

So what is the residual radiation? Interested people want to know. Were they using LNT safeguards?

"The Australian Radiation Protection and Nuclear Safety Agency has classified the area as an “existing exposure situation” with radiation levels “not considered to be excessively dangerous”."

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/oct/08/radiation-hotspots-legacy...

What that article tells us is that we just don't know what the long -term effects of nuclear testing are. As contamination was detected as far away as Gladstone in Queensland, we have potentially hundreds of thousands affected. You want more affected. What happened to your claims about Operation HURRICANE and MOSAIC sites being now safe enough for camping, Lee? Dead in the water, hey? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

You are conflating nuclear weapons tests half a century ago with nuclear power plants of today. There is no comparison whatsoever. Roll Eyes

No, I am not, Belgarion. You are the one doing the conflating. What I am doing is stating that we still do not know the long-term effects of Radiation and the nuclear tests are just one example of that. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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lee

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #77 - Mar 13^th, 2024 at 4:45pm

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2024 at 3:12pm:

Nuclear is the most expensive power source available...

So why are the EU planning more nuclear facilities? 13 out of 27 members want nuclear. And young professional in Spain want the decision to close them walked back.

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/eu-countries-split-over-su...

https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/Young-nuclear-groups-aim-for-Spanish...

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2024 at 3:12pm:

.What does Australia do for the next decade pluss whilst Dutton pursues his thought bubble...

The same timeframe to prove renewables don't work in an industrial nation? Wink

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philperth2010

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #78 - Mar 13^th, 2024 at 5:23pm

Quote:

Nuclear will not happen without bi partisan support from both major parties....Nuclear would take too long to build up to 20 years....Nuclear is the most expensive power source available....Nuclear waste is expensive to dispose of and dangerous to transport

All true!!!

Where is the costings and feasability study into Nuclear Power in Australia....All we have is a thought bubble from Mr Potato Head!!!

How much will it cost???
How long will it take to build these reactors from scratch???
Where will these Nuclear Power plants be located???
Where will the Nuclear Waste be stored???
What roads, ports and rail will be used to transport this hazourdous Nuclear Waste???
Who will build these Nuclear Reactors???

A thought bubble with no detail....Complete bullshit!!!

Roll Eyes

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lee

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #79 - Mar 13^th, 2024 at 5:41pm

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2024 at 5:23pm:

All we have is a thought bubble from Mr Potato Head!!!

Well that's the level of understanding on renewables. They won't work in an industrial nation.

And Batteries? How many MWh should they last? The haven't even got a number for that. In the UK they used one years data, and that is proving to be so far out it isn't funny.

Meanwhile the CSIRO GenCost report shows wind and solar 100% efficient and Nuclear 30% efficient. Wink

Build times for wind, solar and nuclear 3 years.

Table B.9

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philperth2010

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #80 - Mar 13^th, 2024 at 5:49pm

lee wrote on Mar 13^th, 2024 at 5:41pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2024 at 5:23pm:

All we have is a thought bubble from Mr Potato Head!!!

Well that's the level of understanding on renewables. They won't work in an industrial nation.

And Batteries? How many MWh should they last? The haven't even got a number for that. In the UK they used one years data, and that is proving to be so far out it isn't funny.

Meanwhile the CSIRO GenCost report shows wind and solar 100% efficient and Nuclear 30% efficient. Wink

Build times for wind, solar and nuclear 3 years.

Table B.9

Do you have a link to this report???

Huh

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17673 Gender:	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #81 - Mar 13^th, 2024 at 5:51pm philperth2010 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2024 at 5:49pm: Do you have a link to this report??? So you can't even do a basic search. https://www.csiro.au/-/media/Energy/GenCost/GenCost2023-24Consultdraft_20231219-...
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philperth2010

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #82 - Mar 13^th, 2024 at 5:52pm

Quote:

Timelines for nuclear power are longer than renewable energy alternatives. Estimates and experience of nuclear generation build times are between 6 to 10 years. But that doesn't include approval processes that can add another 10 years to a project's timeline. Renewable planning processes are around 4 years, and build times for solar and wind farms are 6 to 12 months. The result, renewable energy projects are quicker than nuclear to build.

Finally, environmental risk makes nuclear less attractive than renewable energy. Posing both catastrophic risk from accidents, and long term risk from the storage of nuclear waste.

Key Takeaways
Nuclear power is not a cost-effective solution compared to renewable energy sources.
The risks associated with nuclear power outweigh the benefits.
The future of energy lies in renewable energy sources, which are becoming cheaper and more accessible.

https://energyaction.com.au/nuclear-power-versus-renewable-energy/#:~:text=Estim...

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49069 At my desk.	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #83 - Mar 13^th, 2024 at 5:52pm Nuclear power is already the most expensive type, and the others are getting cheaper rapidly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17673 Gender:	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #84 - Mar 13^th, 2024 at 5:55pm poor phil. The report was too complex for him so he had to go for an easier option. Energy Action sounds like a lobby group. "To achieve Net Zero emissions" "We’re a responsible Net Zero business." Oh dear.
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lee

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #85 - Mar 13^th, 2024 at 5:58pm

freediver wrote on Mar 13^th, 2024 at 5:52pm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source

From your ref -

"The levelized cost of storage (LCOS) is analogous to LCOE, but applied to energy storage technologies such as batteries.[10] Regardless of technology, however, storage is but a secondary source of electricity dependent on a primary source of generation. Thus, a true cost accounting demands that the costs of both primary and secondary sources be included when the cost of storage is compared to the cost of generating electricity in real time to meet demand.[citation needed]

A cost factor unique to storage are losses that occur due to inherent inefficiencies of storing electricity, as well as increased CO2 emissions if any component of the primary source is less than 100% carbon-free.[11] In the U.S., a comprehensive 2015 study found that net system CO2 emissions resulting from storage operation are nontrivial when compared to the emissions from electricity generation [in real time to meet demand], ranging from 104 to 407 kg/MWh of delivered energy depending on location, storage operation mode, and assumptions regarding carbon intensity.[11] "

You do understand NON-TRIVIAL?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49069 At my desk.	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #86 - Mar 13^th, 2024 at 6:02pm Also, nuclear is the most expensive option in countries that already have an established industry. You might as well double it for a country like ours. And with most of the other options getting rapidly cheaper, it would have to be the worst of them all.
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philperth2010

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #87 - Mar 13^th, 2024 at 6:07pm

lee wrote on Mar 13^th, 2024 at 5:55pm:

poor phil. The report was too complex for him so he had to go for an easier option.

Energy Action sounds like a lobby group.

"To achieve Net Zero emissions"

"We’re a responsible Net Zero business."

Oh dear.

lee wrote on Mar 13^th, 2024 at 5:41pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2024 at 5:23pm:

All we have is a thought bubble from Mr Potato Head!!!

Well that's the level of understanding on renewables. They won't work in an industrial nation.

And Batteries? How many MWh should they last? The haven't even got a number for that. In the UK they used one years data, and that is proving to be so far out it isn't funny.

Meanwhile the CSIRO GenCost report shows wind and solar 100% efficient and Nuclear 30% efficient.

Build times for wind, solar and nuclear 3 years.

Table B.9

Quote:

Do you have a link to this report???

Do you have a link to support your bullshit or not....My guess is not which is why you deflected with bullshit!!!

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lee

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Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream
Reply #88 - Mar 13^th, 2024 at 6:08pm

freediver wrote on Mar 13^th, 2024 at 6:02pm:

Also, nuclear is the most expensive option in countries that already have an established industry.

And yet their electricity is cheaper apart from the renewables.

More from your ref -
"Real life costs can diverge significantly from those estimates. Olkiluoto block 3, which achieved first criticality in late 2021 had an overnight cost to the construction consortium (the utility paid a fixed price agreed to when the deal was signed of only 3.2 billion euros) of €8.5 billion and a net electricity capacity of 1.6 GW or €5310 per kW of capacity.[26] Meanwhile Darlington Nuclear Generating Station in Canada had an overnight cost of CA$5.117 billion for a net electric capacity of 3512 MW or CA$1,457 per kW of capacity."

CAD to Euro multiply 1.5

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17673 Gender:	Re: Coalition's 10 Year Nuclear Claim Is A Dream Reply #89 - Mar 13^th, 2024 at 6:10pm philperth2010 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2024 at 6:07pm: Do you have a link to support your bullshit or not....My guess is not which is why you deflected with bullshit!!! Try my post at 3.51pm. See what I mean about your eyesight?
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