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Should Jews apologise for killing Christ? (Read 9267 times)
Bobby.
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #135 - May 27th, 2024 at 9:22pm
 
Frank wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 9:16pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 7:45pm:
Frank/Longy,
Quote:
I am simply saying that there was a man called Jesus,
he lived in 1st century Judea,
he was crucified by the Romans 'on advice' by the Jewish religious establishment.



So should Jews apologise for killing Christ?


Boobs, you are a barely coherent space cadet, a pair of saggy tits,  unmoored in Melbourne - picture that!

What do you know or comprehend? Your questions betray your stupidity.




For you Frank/Longy  :

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UnSubRocky
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #136 - May 27th, 2024 at 9:27pm
 
Frank wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 7:11pm:
Well, I don't really want to get into an argument about what is real with someone who feeds his mind and imagination with B grade fantasy movies and books.


The few B-grade fantasy movies are more set in reality than some tale about a cult leader (of 12 disciples) who went about preaching a lot of rubbish during an ancient time.

Quote:
As I said before, the divinity or otherwise of Jesus is not the point. You are rearing up against the divine attributes. I am not arguing about those. I am simply saying that there was a man called Jesus, he lived in 1st century Judea, he was crucified by the Romans 'on advice' by the Jewish religious establishment.


At the very least, you have conceded that Jesus was not endowed with superpowers.

Quote:
If you want to reject his miracles, divinity, resurrection - go ahead, I am not arguing about any of that.


Excellent. Because to argue that Jesus had all these miraculous abilities, but could not get out of an execution was a starting point for my pathway to a non-religious personality. I think I was 9 years old by the time I came to that kind of conclusion.

Quote:
But I think it is blustering, ignorant stupidity to simply deny that he even existed, when there is so much written evidence about his existence, from sympathetic and unsympathetic sources.


There is yet to be a single source of evidence to show that Jesus EVER existed in Judea or wherever else you might read about. The story of Jesus is just mythology. Much like that of children and teenagers who revere "Harry Potter" and "Lord of the Rings". You interpret the stories to be taken allegorically. Could you imagine in 1500 years time people considering Bilbo Baggins to be a real person from the 1950s who saved the world from chaos? I feel that you see "Jesus" in much the same way. And that is disheartening.

Quote:
....The stories about Jesus are just not a mythological stories at all, nothing like the stories of Achilles, above, or Hercules or any of the other myths and fables from east or west.


I believe Hercules and Achilles to be mythology. As stated in google searches. Why do you have a problem with my interpretation of Jesus as also mythological? You said that it was up to me to decide for myself. Maybe it is because I live in a secular nation called "Australia" that I have determined that religion is irrelevant to modern thought. If people 2000 years ago went about their way after an execution of a cult leader and there is no writing of riotous behaviour in protest of a particular execution, then it would be reasonable to conclude that the guy did not exist at all. And given that the Romans were still worshipping Roman gods in the 16th century, I could consider that the main reason for the rise in Christianity was due to the foundations of the Americas.

Quote:
I don't know what you are studying at CQU in Rocky but you have no ear or mind to sift basic critical textual analysis or historical evidence.


I did twelve years of formal education. I graduated and went on to do a few different courses at university and TAFE. I have accredited research skills in humanities. I have basic to intermediate skill in computing. Currently, I am doing a work integrated learning program with CQU in an industry that requires workers. People my age are more likely than any other age group to join. Though, I won't tell you where.

Even though my research skills have not been tested in about 20 years, I have enough skill to critically analyse a topic, such as religion to draw surmises and inferences so that I can say "Jesus Christ" did not exist. But, given that my attempt at reading my late grandmother's bible ended in me throwing the book across the room in protest to the insanity of that book, it is difficult for me to be motivated towards writing a detailed analysis of the bible for its credibility.

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John is all that I recall reading of the New Testament. There are smatterings of the bible that I have quickly read and forgotten about. But, beyond that, I have not even bothered to do anything with the bible other than to wipe the dust off and placing that book in the bookshelf in the fiction section.

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UnSubRocky
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #137 - May 27th, 2024 at 9:32pm
 
John Smith wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 9:05pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 8:42pm:
John Smith wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 7:49pm:
Frank, your surname is 'Spenser' is it?


Some mothers do av em. Especially in your case.


Do you think Frank here is as in good physical shape as the young Michael Crawford?


I didn't mention Michael Crawford.  I mentioned Frank Spencer.  Do you know how TV works?


Given that Michael Crawford played Frank Spencer in that show, I don't see your point.
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John Smith
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #138 - May 27th, 2024 at 10:19pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 9:32pm:
John Smith wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 9:05pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 8:42pm:
John Smith wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 7:49pm:
Frank, your surname is 'Spenser' is it?


Some mothers do av em. Especially in your case.


Do you think Frank here is as in good physical shape as the young Michael Crawford?


I didn't mention Michael Crawford.  I mentioned Frank Spencer.  Do you know how TV works?


Given that Michael Crawford played Frank Spencer in that show, I don't see your point.


Spenser was a clumsy, bumbling idiot.  Crawford is a genius. That is the point you fool.
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Bobby.
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #139 - May 27th, 2024 at 10:23pm
 
John Smith wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 10:19pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 9:32pm:
John Smith wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 9:05pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 8:42pm:
John Smith wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 7:49pm:
Frank, your surname is 'Spenser' is it?


Some mothers do av em. Especially in your case.


Do you think Frank here is as in good physical shape as the young Michael Crawford?


I didn't mention Michael Crawford.  I mentioned Frank Spencer.  Do you know how TV works?


Given that Michael Crawford played Frank Spencer in that show, I don't see your point.


Spenser was a clumsy, bumbling idiot.  Crawford is a genius. That is the point you fool.







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UnSubRocky
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #140 - May 28th, 2024 at 11:55am
 
John Smith wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 10:19pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 9:32pm:
John Smith wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 9:05pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 8:42pm:
John Smith wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 7:49pm:
Frank, your surname is 'Spenser' is it?


Some mothers do av em. Especially in your case.


Do you think Frank here is as in good physical shape as the young Michael Crawford?


I didn't mention Michael Crawford.  I mentioned Frank Spencer.  Do you know how TV works?


Given that Michael Crawford played Frank Spencer in that show, I don't see your point.


Spenser was a clumsy, bumbling idiot.  Crawford is a genius. That is the point you fool.


Spencer was played brilliantly by Crawford. Crawford was creative with his physicality on the show, and made sure that Frank Spencer's reputation continued to be in the minds of the Baby Boomers right into the 1990s.

I will admit, I don't know if you are being sarcastic.
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Frank
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #141 - May 28th, 2024 at 1:12pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 9:27pm:
Frank wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 7:11pm:
Well, I don't really want to get into an argument about what is real with someone who feeds his mind and imagination with B grade fantasy movies and books.


The few B-grade fantasy movies are more set in reality than some tale about a cult leader (of 12 disciples) who went about preaching a lot of rubbish during an ancient time.

Quote:
As I said before, the divinity or otherwise of Jesus is not the point. You are rearing up against the divine attributes. I am not arguing about those. I am simply saying that there was a man called Jesus, he lived in 1st century Judea, he was crucified by the Romans 'on advice' by the Jewish religious establishment.


At the very least, you have conceded that Jesus was not endowed with superpowers.

Quote:
If you want to reject his miracles, divinity, resurrection - go ahead, I am not arguing about any of that.


Excellent. Because to argue that Jesus had all these miraculous abilities, but could not get out of an execution was a starting point for my pathway to a non-religious personality. I think I was 9 years old by the time I came to that kind of conclusion.

Quote:
But I think it is blustering, ignorant stupidity to simply deny that he even existed, when there is so much written evidence about his existence, from sympathetic and unsympathetic sources.


There is yet to be a single source of evidence to show that Jesus EVER existed in Judea or wherever else you might read about. The story of Jesus is just mythology. Much like that of children and teenagers who revere "Harry Potter" and "Lord of the Rings". You interpret the stories to be taken allegorically. Could you imagine in 1500 years time people considering Bilbo Baggins to be a real person from the 1950s who saved the world from chaos? I feel that you see "Jesus" in much the same way. And that is disheartening.

Quote:
....The stories about Jesus are just not a mythological stories at all, nothing like the stories of Achilles, above, or Hercules or any of the other myths and fables from east or west.


I believe Hercules and Achilles to be mythology. As stated in google searches. Why do you have a problem with my interpretation of Jesus as also mythological? You said that it was up to me to decide for myself. Maybe it is because I live in a secular nation called "Australia" that I have determined that religion is irrelevant to modern thought. If people 2000 years ago went about their way after an execution of a cult leader and there is no writing of riotous behaviour in protest of a particular execution, then it would be reasonable to conclude that the guy did not exist at all. And given that the Romans were still worshipping Roman gods in the 16th century, I could consider that the main reason for the rise in Christianity was due to the foundations of the Americas.

Quote:
I don't know what you are studying at CQU in Rocky but you have no ear or mind to sift basic critical textual analysis or historical evidence.


I did twelve years of formal education. I graduated and went on to do a few different courses at university and TAFE. I have accredited research skills in humanities. I have basic to intermediate skill in computing. Currently, I am doing a work integrated learning program with CQU in an industry that requires workers. People my age are more likely than any other age group to join. Though, I won't tell you where.

Even though my research skills have not been tested in about 20 years, I have enough skill to critically analyse a topic, such as religion to draw surmises and inferences so that I can say "Jesus Christ" did not exist. But, given that my attempt at reading my late grandmother's bible ended in me throwing the book across the room in protest to the insanity of that book, it is difficult for me to be motivated towards writing a detailed analysis of the bible for its credibility.

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John is all that I recall reading of the New Testament. There are smatterings of the bible that I have quickly read and forgotten about. But, beyond that, I have not even bothered to do anything with the bible other than to wipe the dust off and placing that book in the bookshelf in the fiction section.




https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/14/what-is-the-historical-evidence-th...

https://bigthink.com/thinking/was-jesus-real/


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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #142 - May 28th, 2024 at 1:47pm
 
Frank, who is the follower of a fantasy death cult based on fictional history, accuses others of following fantasies.
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Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me.
 
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John Smith
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #143 - May 28th, 2024 at 2:26pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on May 28th, 2024 at 11:55am:
Spencer was played brilliantly by Crawford. Crawford was creative with his physicality on the show, and made sure that Frank Spencer's reputation continued to be in the minds of the Baby Boomers right into the 1990s.

I will admit, I don't know if you are being sarcastic.


You're struggling to understand that Frank Spenser, the character, is different to Michael Crawford, the actor.
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UnSubRocky
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #144 - May 28th, 2024 at 2:39pm
 
John Smith wrote on May 28th, 2024 at 2:26pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 28th, 2024 at 11:55am:
Spencer was played brilliantly by Crawford. Crawford was creative with his physicality on the show, and made sure that Frank Spencer's reputation continued to be in the minds of the Baby Boomers right into the 1990s.

I will admit, I don't know if you are being sarcastic.


You're struggling to understand that Frank Spenser, the character, is different to Michael Crawford, the actor.


I do not struggle at all to differentiate between the personalities played by the same person. I struggled to know whether you were being sarcastic in earlier posts.
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Frank
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #145 - May 28th, 2024 at 4:09pm
 
Is Michael Crawford as Frank Spenser a mythological figure? Or is Frank Spenser a mythological figure impersonated by an invented 'Michael Crawford' who is really Michael Smith - or is he?



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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #146 - May 28th, 2024 at 4:14pm
 
Frank wrote on May 28th, 2024 at 4:09pm:
Is Michael Crawford as Frank Spenser a mythological figure? Or is Frank Spenser a mythological figure impersonated by an invented 'Michael Crawford' who is really Michael Smith - or is he?





Frank Spenser is more real than Jesus Christ
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Frank
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #147 - May 28th, 2024 at 5:28pm
 
John Smith wrote on May 28th, 2024 at 4:14pm:
Frank wrote on May 28th, 2024 at 4:09pm:
Is Michael Crawford as Frank Spenser a mythological figure? Or is Frank Spenser a mythological figure impersonated by an invented 'Michael Crawford' who is really Michael Smith - or is he?





Frank Spenser is more real than Jesus Christ



Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Thank you, sh
i
t fer.
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Frank
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #148 - May 28th, 2024 at 6:09pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 5:03pm:
Frank wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 12:10pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 9:34am:
Frank, seek psychological help. You obviously have some brainwashing going on in your life, being so gullible to fall for such bullshit. Children grow out of such beliefs by the time they are teenagers. Adults even push the claim that there is nothing to even suggest that Jesus is nothing more than a mythology tale.

What is the bullshit belief I have fallen for here?


That you believe that Jesus Christ is real.



Well, Christianity IS the well-spring of Western civilisation, so if you go only by his effect on the world, Jesus was very real : a whole civilisation came from him and his followers and believers.

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Frank
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #149 - May 29th, 2024 at 10:56am
 
Frank wrote on May 28th, 2024 at 6:09pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 5:03pm:
Frank wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 12:10pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 9:34am:
Frank, seek psychological help. You obviously have some brainwashing going on in your life, being so gullible to fall for such bullshit. Children grow out of such beliefs by the time they are teenagers. Adults even push the claim that there is nothing to even suggest that Jesus is nothing more than a mythology tale.

What is the bullshit belief I have fallen for here?


That you believe that Jesus Christ is real.



Well, Christianity IS the well-spring of Western civilisation, so if you go only by his effect on the world, Jesus was very real : a whole civilisation came from him and his followers and believers.




t has been said that the universe is made up not of atoms, but of stories. Whether at a podium or over coffee with a friend, in the privacy of our thoughts or at an international summit, we tell stories pretty much all the time. We create ourselves out of the tales we tell—both individually and as a community, in our myths and in our histories. But who crafts the narrative, and with what motives and vested interests?

We deal in fictions. And yet we never stop asking what really happened.

The Avignon-born French theorist René Girard (1923–2015) had a keen ear for stories, and a remarkable way of coaxing the truth from them, the life out of the lies. He saw that conflict is a constant hum beneath human activity, an inevitable consequence of competing desires. When conflict causes crisis, a pattern of self-justification and cover-up follows. The long history of blame began the moment Adam bit the apple.
...
We are all persecutors. That is one unpleasant, but practical and productive, takeaway from Girard’s “theory.” We are persecutors who see ourselves as victims. Our competitive and covetous quest for job perks, political clout, sexy bedfellows, or an entrée into an élite clique spreads contagiously through a society and leads us to conflict and ultimately escalation—snubs, sackings, social ostracization, and violence. That imbroglio is still resolved, as it has been since time immemorial, by a scapegoating event that finds a target in someone who cannot or will not retaliate, someone who can plausibly be blamed for the troubles. Girard claims that this scapegoating process is the birth pangs of human culture, and also a page from the diary of our everyday lives.
https://churchlifejournal.nd.edu/articles/we-do-not-come-in-peace/
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