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Question: TRUMP Or BIDEN



« Last Modified by: goosecat on: Mar 13th, 2024 at 7:37pm »

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TRUMP Or BIDEN (Read 8672 times)
goosecat
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Re: TRUMP Or BIDEN
Reply #60 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 1:04pm
 
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Panther
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Re: TRUMP Or BIDEN
Reply #61 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 2:39pm
 
..


Fact Check
: Was Donald Trump Found Guilty of Rape?



The Ruling


False


...

Source:      
NEWSWEEK
       Quote:
.... The Manhattan jury of nine men and three women found the former president liable for sexually abusing and defaming Carroll and awarded Carroll $5 million in damages.

However, the lawsuit's conclusion appears to have led some to believe that Trump has been convicted of rape and used that understanding to attack him on social media.

The Claim


A Facebook post by historian James Fell, published on May 9, 2023, which received 2,700 likes, said: "We all knew Trump is a rapist. The jury in the E. Jean Carroll civil trial agrees."

The Facts


While E. Jean Carroll's lawsuit was a civil trial, the fact that the jury was asked to consider the evidence as to whether Trump raped, sexually abused or forcibly touched her might have led some to believe the matter was criminal or otherwise intimated criminal guilt.

Although understanding the distinction between civil and criminal procedure is quite simple, some of the terminology used in the reporting and commentary surrounding the case has not been as easy.

To assess the accuracy of the claim and the finer details of the case, Newsweek spoke to several experts on U.S. civil law.


To start, it's useful to know what standard or quality of evidence the jury in this civil lawsuit used to make its judgment. Its conclusion was based on something called the preponderance of evidence.

As UC Davis School of Law professor Katherine Florey told Newsweek, that meant "the jury must find that it is more likely than not that the plaintiff's key contentions are true."

"This is a much lower standard than in criminal trials, in which the prosecution's contentions must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt," Florey said. "The preponderance standard could be satisfied if the jury is only 51 percent confident that the plaintiff's version of events is true, whereas in a criminal trial, the jury must have near certainty that the prosecution is correct."

"Liability for sexual assault means that the jury has concluded that the plaintiff has satisfied the preponderance of the evidence standard and that the defendant must pay damages to compensate the victim. There are no criminal consequences to a finding of liability."

The word "liability" is also key. As Notre Dame Law School professor Jay Tidmarsh, an expert in complex civil litigation and civil procedure, told Newsweek, "civil cases do not speak of 'guilt' or 'innocence'" but instead "use the language 'liable' or 'not liable,'" as reporting of the jury's verdict repeated.

"So it is accurate to say that Donald Trump was liable for battery and defamation, but not that he was found guilty of battery and defamation.".....

....."Even though this was not a criminal verdict and even though the verdict did not extend to rape, the verdict tells us that a unanimous jury of Trump and Carroll's peers found her credible and found it more likely than not that Trump sexually assaulted her.

"It is also telling that the verdict came quickly. One thing we often forget is that a jury of our peers is so important that we have a constitutional right to such a jury in federal courts not just for criminal trials, but also for civil trials like this one.".......

......Trump was found, by a jury, liable for battery, a civil tort, based on the preponderance of evidence provided by E. Jean Carroll that he sexually abused her but not that he raped her.

He was not found "guilty" as the suit was a civil trial, which entails no criminal conviction.

If the evidence provided by Carroll was given to a criminal jury, it might have come to other conclusions. That it was not found at a civil trial (based on the preponderance of evidence) that he raped Carroll does not mean that a criminal trial would make the same conclusion, although the evidential standards would be higher.


JFEI......under the American System of Justice the Judge does not have any say as to "Guilt or Innocence" in a Criminal Trial or "Liable" or "Not Liable" in a Civil Trial.....that's reserved to the Jury, & in a Criminal Proceeding the defendant must waive his Constitutional Right to a Jury Trial to the satisfaction of the court in order for the judge to have any say other than rule on evidence presented by the prosecution, & make sure the defendant gets a fair trial.....all their Constitutional Rights...there are quite a few.....are completely protected. 

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« Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:09pm by Panther »  

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greggerypeccary
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Re: TRUMP Or BIDEN
Reply #62 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 2:49pm
 

"A judge has now clarified that ... what the jury found Trump did was in fact rape, as commonly understood."

Judge clarifies: Yes, Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll

...


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Panther
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Re: TRUMP Or BIDEN
Reply #63 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:23pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 2:49pm:
"A judge has now clarified that ... what the jury found Trump did was in fact rape, as commonly understood."

Judge clarifies: Yes, Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll



...



Kaplan's clarification is & was completely immaterial under US Law...he had no material say in the jury trial outcome, except having his own personal opinion.....just like you Grin Grin Grin

No Rape.....Just Sexual Abuse as found by the jury....Liability of $5 Million Awarded (pocket change) to the sweet, once young thang for hurtin' her lil feelin'.....

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« Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:30pm by Panther »  

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Re: TRUMP Or BIDEN
Reply #64 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 4:50pm
 
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greggerypeccary
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Re: TRUMP Or BIDEN
Reply #65 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 4:51pm
 
Panther wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:23pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 2:49pm:
"A judge has now clarified that ... what the jury found Trump did was in fact rape, as commonly understood."

Judge clarifies: Yes, Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll





No Rape.....Just Sexual Abuse as found by the jury.......


Sexual abuse.

i.e. he violently penetrated her against her will.

You find that sort of thing acceptable, do you?

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Panther
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Re: TRUMP Or BIDEN
Reply #66 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 5:59pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 4:51pm:
Panther wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:23pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 2:49pm:
"A judge has now clarified that ... what the jury found Trump did was in fact rape, as commonly understood."

Judge clarifies: Yes, Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll





No Rape.....Just Sexual Abuse as found by the jury.......


Sexual abuse.

i.e. he violently penetrated her against her will.

You find that sort of thing acceptable, do you?

https://i.imgflip.com/7l6157.jpg




No, & I'm glad to see she wasn't raped.

At least the jury probably got that much right.

If & when the cash hits her account, it should go a long way to a better day.....help ease whatever pain she might have......for her sake I hope she lives to see a payout.

That said, I still intend on casting my vote for him again over Biden.


...

......


..

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« Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2024 at 6:08pm by Panther »  

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Re: TRUMP Or BIDEN
Reply #67 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 6:26pm
 
Panther wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 5:59pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 4:51pm:
Panther wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:23pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 2:49pm:
"A judge has now clarified that ... what the jury found Trump did was in fact rape, as commonly understood."

Judge clarifies: Yes, Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll





No Rape.....Just Sexual Abuse as found by the jury.......


Sexual abuse.

i.e. he violently penetrated her against her will.

You find that sort of thing acceptable, do you?

https://i.imgflip.com/7l6157.jpg




No, & I'm glad to see she wasn't raped.  ...



Oh, but she was.  She was raped by Donald J. Trump.

"A judge has now clarified that ... what the jury found Trump did was in fact rape, as commonly understood."

Judge clarifies: Yes, Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll

...
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Karnal
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Re: TRUMP Or BIDEN
Reply #68 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 6:26pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 5:18am:
Karnal wrote on Mar 17th, 2024 at 11:43pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 17th, 2024 at 8:11pm:
Karnal wrote on Mar 16th, 2024 at 10:58pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 16th, 2024 at 9:21pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 16th, 2024 at 7:56pm:
goosecat wrote on Mar 16th, 2024 at 7:54pm:
In a realist world of two choices: Biden or Trump. Knowing the USA and the world needs the USA to rebalance itself. Trump it is.


A rapist who steals money from kids' cancer charities is your choice?

Why - do you like rapists, or just hate kids with cancer?


Bringing you to the verge of a nervous breakdown, deranged turd,  has a lot to do with it.



Is that what it is, Goose? You'd be okay to give Vlad Eastern Europe, start a global trade war and turn the US into the big fella's private fiefdom in order to trigger the leftards?

The old boy's all good. Also, he likes the idea of all these mass ILLEGAL DEPORTATIONS that are never going to happen, like the rest of his promises.

To be honest, the old boy would put him in just to get him back on Twitter.

Ah the good old days, no?


Deranged paki hyperbole, as usual. Illegal pakis should be deported. It's pakis like you undermine the democratic will of the people and work relentlessly to prevent the deportation of chancy pakis like you.

Next thing, the whole village is here, demanding the observation of Ramadan by the rest of us.






Here you go, Goose, the old boy's a fan, as you can see.

Of, course, there will be no Paki deportations if your DL gets in. This would be illegal, and as we all know, your DL's a big fan of the constitution, no?

No American Pakis will be deported, but I'm curious.

Forget all that bringing the pendulum back to the centre stuff. Do you, like the old boy, support your DL because he merely talks about deporting Pakis?

Cheers.



again you show your ignorance

trump has shown his contempt  for the rule of law, so if he wants to, they will be gone

who will stop the commander in chief of a republican military and a republican militia

will dylan mulvanney and e jean take trump to court in a civil suit to stop him doing as he pleases  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


But of course.

Many of the big fella's orders were overturned or reformed by the Supreme Court, including his travel ban.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/politics/trump-overruled/

The US has a thing called a bill of rights. If people have their rights overturned, there's a million lawyers standing by to help have them restored.

And not just American citizens' rights. The lawyers just need to show a government department has breached rights. Presidential administrations are not allowed to discriminate on the basis of gender, religion or, ahem, race.

The military refused to carry out his orders last time. They have to. As Mark Milley and others have testified, federal employees swear an oath to the constitution, not some president.

They know that if they breach the constitution, the lawyers will come after them too.

That's what the rule of law means, dear. You're hardly a fan, we know, but I guarantee you this: no senior ranking operative is going to put their job and their neck on the line. Not for your DL, not for anybody.

Mark Meadows, Rudy, Sidney and a bunch of his co-conspirators and racketeers are currently facing ten years in the Fulton County Correctional Centre. Sidney's been smart enough to take a plea-deal. Rudy and Mark will be the next to go, you watch.

Being a dictator for a day is about all the big fella's gonna get.
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Re: TRUMP Or BIDEN
Reply #69 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 6:34pm
 
Panther wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:23pm:
[Just Sexual Abuse as found by the jury...


Good to know, Panther. A bit of harmless sexual abuse, eh?

Pity you weren't a witness in Jeff Epstein's trial. You could have helped get him off, no?
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Re: TRUMP Or BIDEN
Reply #70 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 6:47pm
 
Karnal wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 6:34pm:
Panther wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:23pm:
[Just Sexual Abuse as found by the jury...


Good to know, Panther. A bit of harmless sexual abuse, eh?

Pity you weren't a witness in Jeff Epstein's trial. You could have helped get him off, no?


In a criminal trial during the deliberations up until the verdict, the jury is the law, not what the judge instructs them the law says, it's the jury.....they are free to accept or reject the written law.....but if they wish to convict, to find guilt, they must be 100% unanimous....in a criminal trial, that's the very bottom line.
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« Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2024 at 7:11pm by Panther »  

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Re: TRUMP Or BIDEN
Reply #71 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 8:11pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 6:26pm:
Panther wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 5:59pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 4:51pm:
Panther wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:23pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 2:49pm:
"A judge has now clarified that ... what the jury found Trump did was in fact rape, as commonly understood."

Judge clarifies: Yes, Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll





No Rape.....Just Sexual Abuse as found by the jury.......


Sexual abuse.

i.e. he violently penetrated her against her will.

You find that sort of thing acceptable, do you?

https://i.imgflip.com/7l6157.jpg




No, & I'm glad to see she wasn't raped.  ...



Oh, but she was.  She was raped by Donald J. Trump.

"A judge has now clarified that ... what the jury found Trump did was in fact rape, as commonly understood."

Judge clarifies: Yes, Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll

https://i.imgflip.com/7l6157.jpg



Ah, 'commonly understood.'
Not as understood in criminal law. And in a country where it is not commonly understood even what a woman is.

You, turd, are a despicable, vomit-inducing horror, as commonly understood. Repulsive, monomaniacal, deranged. As commonly understood.

A fixated sexual pervert and rape fantasist deviant. As commonly understood.





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Re: TRUMP Or BIDEN
Reply #72 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 8:29pm
 
Karnal wrote on Mar 16th, 2024 at 10:58pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 16th, 2024 at 9:21pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 16th, 2024 at 7:56pm:
goosecat wrote on Mar 16th, 2024 at 7:54pm:
In a realist world of two choices: Biden or Trump. Knowing the USA and the world needs the USA to rebalance itself. Trump it is.


A rapist who steals money from kids' cancer charities is your choice?

Why - do you like rapists, or just hate kids with cancer?


Bringing you to the verge of a nervous breakdown, deranged turd,  has a lot to do with it.



Is that what it is, Goose? You'd be okay to give Vlad Eastern Europe, start a global trade war and turn the US into the big fella's private fiefdom in order to trigger the leftards?

The old boy's all good. Also, he likes the idea of all these mass ILLEGAL DEPORTATIONS that are never going to happen, like the rest of his promises.

To be honest, the old boy would put him in just to get him back on Twitter.

Ah the good old days, no?


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Karnal
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Re: TRUMP Or BIDEN
Reply #73 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 9:58pm
 
Panther wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 6:47pm:
Karnal wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 6:34pm:
Panther wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:23pm:
[Just Sexual Abuse as found by the jury...


Good to know, Panther. A bit of harmless sexual abuse, eh?

Pity you weren't a witness in Jeff Epstein's trial. You could have helped get him off, no?


In a criminal trial during the deliberations up until the verdict, the jury is the law, not what the judge instructs them the law says, it's the jury.....they are free to accept or reject the written law.....but if they wish to convict, to find guilt, they must be 100% unanimous....in a criminal trial, that's the very bottom line.


No no, you said. Just a bit of sexual abuse.

According to your beloved constitution. Your DL.

Liable for just sexual abuse.

You've always been a fan, no?
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Karnal
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Re: TRUMP Or BIDEN
Reply #74 - Mar 18th, 2024 at 10:00pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 8:11pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 6:26pm:
Panther wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 5:59pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 4:51pm:
Panther wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:23pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 2:49pm:
"A judge has now clarified that ... what the jury found Trump did was in fact rape, as commonly understood."

Judge clarifies: Yes, Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll





No Rape.....Just Sexual Abuse as found by the jury.......


Sexual abuse.

i.e. he violently penetrated her against her will.

You find that sort of thing acceptable, do you?

https://i.imgflip.com/7l6157.jpg




No, & I'm glad to see she wasn't raped.  ...



Oh, but she was.  She was raped by Donald J. Trump.

"A judge has now clarified that ... what the jury found Trump did was in fact rape, as commonly understood."

Judge clarifies: Yes, Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll

https://i.imgflip.com/7l6157.jpg



Ah, 'commonly understood.'
Not as understood in criminal law. And in a country where it is not commonly understood even what a woman is.

You, turd, are a despicable, vomit-inducing horror, as commonly understood. Repulsive, monomaniacal, deranged. As commonly understood.

A fixated sexual pervert and rape fantasist deviant. As commonly understood.



Oh? I'll have you know Panther came up with the sexual abuse moniker, old boy.

Despicable stuff, no?
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