Australian Politics Forum - Chinese Communist Party Propaganda

thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #360 - Apr 15^th, 2024 at 5:17pm

freediver wrote on Apr 15^th, 2024 at 1:45pm:

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/CHN/china/net-migration#:~:text=The%20net%20migration%20rate%20for,a%200.79%25%20increase%20from%202021.

The net migration rate for China in 2023 was -0.256 per 1000 population, a 0.79% increase from 2022.
The net migration rate for China in 2022 was -0.254 per 1000 population, a 0.79% increase from 2021.
The net migration rate for China in 2021 was -0.252 per 1000 population, a 1.2% increase from 2020.

Like I said, China is still a developing country with 700 million poor people.

Nevertheless:

in 2017:

https://www.smh.com.au/education/china-rises-as-the-international-market-of-choi...

"China rises as the international market of choice for Australian students"'''

....ie, before ASIO with its media savvy ASPI goons began its evil, paranoid hit-job smearing China's development (with the CIA lapdog Turnbull banning Huawei on trumped up security grounds)

Quote:

What makes you think (housing ponzi)?

The most expensive housing in the world, and a housing crisis. Turn off the immigration spigot, and prices will collapse as the govt tries to restore affordable housing.

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Are you saying it was Xi's mistake to not see housing in China as a ponzi scheme, even though it was not a ponzi scheme?

No. It was Xi's mistake not to forsee the inevitable outcome of "housing as private investment vehicles".

There isn't enough population growth in China (despite rural migration to the cities) to support an Oz-style Ponzi based on ever-growing demand from immigration, and ever-increasing private debt.

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« Last Edit: Apr 16^th, 2024 at 10:32am by thegreatdivide »

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 13043 Gender:	Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda Reply #361 - Apr 15^th, 2024 at 5:18pm .
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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 13043 Gender:	Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda Reply #362 - Apr 15^th, 2024 at 5:18pm .
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freediver

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #363 - Apr 15^th, 2024 at 5:26pm

Quote:

The most expensive housing in the world, and a housing crisis.

That is not a rational argument. There are plenty of other obvious reasons why our housing is more expensive.

Don't you feel a bit silly lecturing world leaders on economics with all your half baked ideas?

Quote:

No. It was Xi's mistake not to forsee the inevitable outcome of "housing as private investment vehicles".

What is the alternative?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #364 - Apr 16^th, 2024 at 10:43am

freediver wrote on Apr 15^th, 2024 at 5:26pm:

Quote:

The most expensive housing in the world, and a housing crisis.

That is not a rational argument. There are plenty of other obvious reasons why our housing is more expensive.

My turn: can you name those 'obvious reasons' why Oz housing is the most expensive in the world, while Oz private debt is also the highest in the world - which is how the ponzi is supported?

google

"Australian household debt has steadily risen over the past three decades as more of us aim to own homes** and continue to rely on products such as car loans and credit cards. As a result, Australia is reported to have some of the highest personal debt levels in the world." 22 Dec 2023

**But the rate of home ownership is steadily decreasing, as the landlord class increases its wealth, and more people are locked out of home ownership.

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Don't you feel a bit silly lecturing world leaders on economics with all your half baked ideas?

No. Mainstream economics is destroying the world's social fabric as inequality soars amid entrenched poverty.

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What is the alternative (to private home ownership)?

Sufficient public housing to ensure affordable housing for all.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49233 At my desk.	Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda Reply #365 - Apr 16^th, 2024 at 10:53am Quote: My turn: can you name those 'obvious reasons' why Oz housing is the most expensive in the world The houses are better, the builders are paid more, and the regulations are stricter and more complicated.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #366 - Apr 16^th, 2024 at 11:25am

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 10:53am:

Quote:

My turn: can you name those 'obvious reasons' why Oz housing is the most expensive in the world

The houses are better, the builders are paid more, and the regulations are stricter and more complicated.

"Oz houses are better".... than US and UK: fail.

"Builders are paid more"... and yet they are going broke building unafforable housing: fail.

"regulations are stricter and more complicated" ...and yet scams in the housing industry are notorious. Fail.

https://www.architectureanddesign.com.au/features/comment/australian-building-ho...

Housing with buyer protection and no serious faults – is that too much to ask of builders and regulators?

Now...about the remainder of my post to which you imagined you replied....

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freediver

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #367 - Apr 16^th, 2024 at 12:15pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 11:25am:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 10:53am:

Quote:

My turn: can you name those 'obvious reasons' why Oz housing is the most expensive in the world

The houses are better, the builders are paid more, and the regulations are stricter and more complicated.

"Oz houses are better".... than US and UK: fail.

"Builders are paid more"... and yet they are going broke building unafforable housing: fail.

"regulations are stricter and more complicated" ...and yet scams in the housing industry are notorious. Fail.

https://www.architectureanddesign.com.au/features/comment/australian-building-ho...

Housing with buyer protection and no serious faults – is that too much to ask of builders and regulators?

Now...about the remainder of my post to which you imagined you replied....

You are confused.

"Builders" - by which you mean building companies - are going broke occasionally, partly because they have to pay the builders - by which I mean the people actually doing work - a lot.

https://medium.com/@xscad/home-design-uk-vs-us-vs-australia-54c117511cfd

Quote:

In fact, Australia reputedly has the largest houses in the world. A survey in 2011 by the Australian Bureau of Statistics found the average Australian home has floor space of 214.6 square metres. Average American homes have 15 square metres less than that, and Australian homes are three times the size of an average British home.

https://www.elledecor.com/life-culture/fun-at-home/news/a7654/house-sizes-around-the-world/

Quote:

The interior design site took a look at average house sizes around the world and determined that Australian homes are the largest, while homes in China are the smallest, at just over 500 square feet.

500 square feet is 46 square meters.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #368 - Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:14pm

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 12:15pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 11:25am:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 10:53am:

Quote:

My turn: can you name those 'obvious reasons' why Oz housing is the most expensive in the world

The houses are better, the builders are paid more, and the regulations are stricter and more complicated.

"Oz houses are better".... than US and UK: fail.

"Builders are paid more"... and yet they are going broke building unafforable housing: fail.

"regulations are stricter and more complicated" ...and yet scams in the housing industry are notorious. Fail.

https://www.architectureanddesign.com.au/features/comment/australian-building-ho...

Housing with buyer protection and no serious faults – is that too much to ask of builders and regulators?

Now...about the remainder of my post to which you imagined you replied....

You are confused.

"Builders" - by which you mean building companies - are going broke occasionally, partly because they have to pay the builders - by which I mean the people actually doing work - a lot.

Yes.. where's my "confusion"? Even large building companies are going broke - madness when a million more houses are needed NOW. (You want to pay the workers less, like LNP policy?)

Obviously free market failure....

Quote:

In fact, Australia reputedly has the largest houses in the world. A survey in 2011 by the Australian Bureau of Statistics found the average Australian home has floor space of 214.6 square metres. Average American homes have 15 square metres less than that, and Australian homes are three times the size of an average British home.

Size doesn't equal quality, or "better"; nor does size preclude a ponzi.

Quote:

The interior design site took a look at average house sizes around the world and determined that Australian homes are the largest, while homes in China are the smallest, at just over 500 square feet.

500 square feet is 46 square meters.

Yes, appartments are smaller than McMansions.

Now..... about the rest of my post to which you imagined your replied.....

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49233 At my desk.	Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda Reply #369 - Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:32pm Quote: Size doesn't equal quality, or "better"; nor does size preclude a ponzi. Read back through the discussion and get back to me when you get the point.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #370 - Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:49pm

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:32pm:

Quote:

Size doesn't equal quality, or "better"; nor does size preclude a ponzi.

Read back through the discussion and get back to me when you get the point.

No thanks.

You are denying the existence of a free market housing catastrophe in Oz ('ponzi' or not...), indicating your sheer ideilogical blindess. Xi on the other hand has learned about free market failure in housing the hard way.

So you resort to guibbling over the description of a housing ponzi.

Deplorable.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49233 At my desk.	Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda Reply #371 - Apr 16^th, 2024 at 2:12pm You asked for alternative explanations. You got them. It is not up to me to disprove your idiotic claims. Half the time you do not even realise what country we are talking about. I am not "guibbling over the description of a housing ponzi." I am saying you are full of crap.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #372 - Apr 16^th, 2024 at 2:38pm

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 2:12pm:

You asked for alternative explanations. You got them.

And I identified your errors in all them, chief among them being the reality of free market failure which you can't address, being ideologically blind .

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It is not up to me to disprove your idiotic claims. Half the time you do not even realise what country we are talking about.

Free market failure exists as an unfortunate 'companion' everywhere there is a free market.

"The markets are good servants, but bad masters, and a worse religion": Amory Lovins.

Quote:

I am not "guibbling over the description of a housing ponzi." I am saying you are full of crap.

And you have just revealed your ideological blindness, unable to acknowledge the reality of market failure in the Oz and China housing disasters (and previously the US).

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freediver

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #373 - Apr 16^th, 2024 at 3:14pm

Quote:

And I identified your errors in all them

No you didn't. You carried on like a moron. Saying "fail" is not pointing out anything, other than your inability to construct a rational argument.

You made the stupid claim that the Australian housing market is a ponzi scheme. The only evidence you have provided is that our houses are expensive.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #374 - Apr 17^th, 2024 at 11:00am

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 3:14pm:

No you didn't. You carried on like a moron. Saying "fail" is not pointing out anything, other than your inability to construct a rational argument.

Wrong, I pointed out why you failed.

Quote:

You made the stupid claim that the Australian housing market is a ponzi scheme. The only evidence you have provided is that our houses are expensive.

Still quibbling over whether the disastrous free market housing outcomes in Oz is a ponzi or not.

The point is the free market housing outcomes in Oz are a disaster, with the largest housing crisis in Oz history.

deplorable.

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