Australian Politics Forum - Chinese Communist Party Propaganda

thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #495 - Dec 1^st, 2024 at 12:48pm

freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 11:09am:

Quote:

Indeed the failed collectivisation of agriculture cost many lives, but it wasn't deliberate murder in war

The CCP has killed tens of millions of it's own citizens, both as deliberate acts of slaughter in their quest for power, and as a direct result of their incompetence and lies.

The only thing more dangerous than a Nazi trying to kill you is a communist trying to help you.

Now you are resorting to mindless repetition, unable to address the points made because of your blind delusional, "individual freedom values" ideology.

Freedom for self-interested individuals....what could go wrong....homelessness and systemic poverty?

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I am pretty sure you have previously stated your support for the CCP's deliberate slaughter of tens of millions of their own citizens in their quest for power. Something to do with their victims being "capitalist swine". If you think my interpretation is wrong, please elaborate.

Pretty sure, but not REALLY sure?

No I dont' support slaughter of citizens, or their impoverishment in neoliberal markets. And you confuse the combatants in the Chinese civil war; the Nationalists who fled to Taiwan were "capitalist swine", whereas the victims of failed farm collectivization were ordinary Chinese people.

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What has changed?

Cor blimey, you cant' see the change from the disastrous collectivization policy, to the globally recognised 'miracle' of the 'opening up' policy?

Such is the egregious effect on the delusional "individual freedom values" brain.....

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How was the CCP's handling of the initial outbreak of covid for example and different to the Great Chinese famine?

Er - China prevented the covid massive death toll which ravaged the US; all nations locked down their economies, some more than others.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/29/10/23-0585_article

'eg [i]"For almost 3 years, China maintained a zero-COVID policy that effectively suppressed SARS-CoV-2 transmission. China began rolling back those rules on November 11, 2022, and ended most restrictions on December 7, 2022 (China Focus, 2023, [/quote] ..a relaxation forced on the CCP by the people.

And btw, US life expectancy has continued to decline since covid, whereas China's has contnued to rise, overtaking the US.

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In both cases the lies and incompetence of the CCP caused the death of millions.

Refuted above. The CCP initially denied (for several weeks) the pandemic, but quickly instated a total lockdown, confirming you are incapable of logical analysis, your brain crippled by delusional "individual freedom values" ideology.

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You still haven't clarified what you meant when you asked if our people prefer democracy to benign authority.

Already clarified in the sentence in which II asked the question, namely:

Do you really prefer the "freedom" to participate in stupid 'democratic' elections like the current outrageous blind leading the blind US circus, rather than participating in the steady development of *common prosperity* under a benevolent authority?

The bolded being MY proposition for a better form of government than the "worst form of governement".

I'm positing that benign authority might be a method of overcoming the growing dysfunction in the democracies which is greatly exercising Trump at the moment, along with an increasing number of people in the democracies who want change but never get it.

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The question makes no sense, because democracy is the only benign authority that rational people recognise.

Classic FD: asks a question I didn't ask, then "explains" why HIS question doesn't a make sense....oh dear, the capacity for self deception is bottomless.

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When you refer to benign authority, did you mean the government that has killed roughly 100 million of it's own citizens through homicidal mania and incompetent leadership?

Blind repetition and ignoring the points made won't save you.

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TGD

And can you give an an example of "CCP propaganda" which the CCP is spouting today

?

The death toll from covid within China, for a start.

Yet China's life expectancy is still rising, unlike the US's which has stalled.

Quote:

Only a brainwashed moron would believe the official CCP death toll.

See above: China minimized covid deaths by the world's strickest lockdown, until,the government was forced to lift the lockdown by the people at which time covid deaths rose, as in other countires who eased lockdowns because of 'lockdown fatigue').

And my other question: an example of benevolent authority in a democracy?

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« Last Edit: Dec 1^st, 2024 at 1:05pm by thegreatdivide »

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freediver

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #496 - Dec 1^st, 2024 at 6:27pm

Quote:

Now you are resorting to mindless repetition, unable to address the points made because of your blind delusional, "individual freedom values" ideology.

It is hard to get past you equating the deliberately slaughter, and the killing through lies and shear incompetence, of around 100 million Chinese people by the CCP with "benign authority". And your ongoing tapdancing every time I ask you to clarify if that is what you mean. So yes, that point will probably make it into every one of my posts.

Other than democracy, what "benign authority" is there?

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 46211 Gender:	Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda Reply #497 - Dec 1^st, 2024 at 7:15pm You ARE Chinoise, parrot, aren't you? Or Albanian or North Korean or some such. Chinoise.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #498 - Dec 2^nd, 2024 at 11:43am

freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 6:27pm:

Quote:

Now you are resorting to mindless repetition, unable to address the points made because of your blind delusional, "individual freedom values" ideology.

It is hard to get past your equating....

Because you are blinded by your delusional 'individual freedom' ideology which I fully exposed in your 'foundations' thread (which you abandoned because you are unable to defend your delusional stance re individual freedom/ natural individual rights - rights which don't exist in nature's survival of the fittest slaughterhouse.

to recap: instinctively self-interested individuals need to abide by rule of man-made law, designed to avoid war and greed-based mis-allocation of resources[/b] in "free" economic competition, aka the 'inviible hand' free market.

Exhibit 1: Musk on the way to becoming a $trillionaire, while entire countries are plunging into poverty while the IMF (Instant Misery Fund) forces them to pay back debt to rich creditors.

(Yesterday the despicable IMF praised Milei for plunging half his nation's citizens into to poverty and starvation, so Argentina can pay its debts to rich creditors in the IMF who don't need the money. Deplorable).

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the killing through lies and shear incompetence, of around 100 million Chinese people by the CCP with "benign authority"....

The low IQ of the Right is certainly palpable in that sentence. As already explained, the authority at the time wasn't benign, just as the Pentagon's authority today isn't benign. The CCP believed it had to collectivize farms to achieve it's goal of common prosperity, but it was wrong. Just as the Pentagon believes it can maintain peace in the world by sheer force of arms, but it is also wrong.

Benevolent authority (both national, and in a federation of nations) to administer the principles of the UNUDHR is the concept I am considering, to end war and poverty.

Quote:

And your ongoing tapdancing every time I ask you to clarify if that is what you mean. So yes, that point will probably make it into every one of my posts.

Every time you reply based on your delusion-based individual freedom/individual rights ideology is an opportunity for me.

A benevolent authority, whether national or global, is one which implements the principles of the UNUDHR.

No "tap-dancing", on the contrary an explanation of what is necessary to end poverty within nations and war between nations. The question is: how much do you desire to end those un-necessary blights on humanity.

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Other than democracy, what "benign authority" is there?

benign
/bɪˈnʌɪn/
adjective
1.
gentle and kindly.
"his benign but firm manner"

People sleeping in the streets, the gap, a c-o-l crisis resulting in wage slavery and oppressive living conditions for low income groups, and the resulting increase in crime rates - are NOT "benign" government.

as opposed to benevolent authority, for which Kishore Mabuhbani posits as an example Xi with his anti- corruption drive and goal of a 'green, prosperous, socialist China by 2049 (the centenary of the revolution).

[For my part, I will NOT agree with Kishore's estimation of Xi, if Xi fails to achieve his stated goal, because China certainly has the productive capacity to achieve the goal by 2049].

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« Last Edit: Dec 2^nd, 2024 at 12:01pm by thegreatdivide »

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12939 Gender:	Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda Reply #499 - Dec 2^nd, 2024 at 11:47am Frank wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 7:15pm: You ARE Chinoise, parrot, aren't you? Or Albanian or North Korean or some such. Chinoise. Read my post above, which is a reply to poor, deluded "individual freedom values" FD. (#498) Do you think it could NOT have been written by an Australian?
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #500 - Dec 2^nd, 2024 at 4:19pm

And this from a Thai author re his translation of the collection titled 'Xi Jinping: The Governance of China':

Wirun, who has long engaged in research on China, has carefully studied the first volume of the collection. "The content of this book has greatly inspired me. The path China has taken is precisely the experience that developing countries like us need to learn from. I feel honored to participate in the translation and publication of its Thai version from the second volume," he said.

During the translation process, he and his team meticulously considered how to express the original meaning accurately while ensuring that Thai readers could grasp the essence of the content.

"For instance, in the first topic of Volume II, President Xi quotes the saying from The Book of Rites: The Great Learning, 'Win popular support, and you win the country; lose it, and you will lose the country.' Through our careful study, we understood the meaning of this ancient saying, and then translated it directly into Thai while clearly explaining that President Xi's intention in quoting it is to emphasize that the Communist Party of China (CPC) must adhere to a people-centered approach and stand with the people, which is the fundamental guarantee for overcoming difficulties and risks," Wirun said.

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freediver

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #501 - Dec 2^nd, 2024 at 6:56pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2024 at 11:43am:

Benevolent authority (both national, and in a federation of nations) to administer the principles of the UNUDHR is the concept I am considering, to end war and poverty.

I still don't get why you were asking people whether they prefer democracy or benevolent authority. They are the same thing.

Also, are you suggesting that the authority responsible for the deliberately slaughter, and the killing through lies and shear incompetence, of around 100 million Chinese people, is a benevolent authority?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #502 - Dec 3^rd, 2024 at 10:22am

freediver wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2024 at 6:56pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2024 at 11:43am:

Benevolent authority (both national, and in a federation of nations) to administer the principles of the UNUDHR is the concept I am considering, to end war and poverty.

I still don't get why you were asking people whether they prefer democracy or benevolent authority. They are the same thing.

I have said before that if a democracy in fact demonstrates it CAN implement the rights set out in the UNUDHR, including the right to good housing, and the right to above poverty employment (article 23), then I'm all in.

But I can't see how a near 50%+1 vote of self-interested citizens (the usual outcome of democratic elections) can ever achieve it, whereas a competent benevolent authority might be able to, since there is no lack of resources to prevent achieving universal prosperity, only individual greed to block its achievement.

As for China, it's growth in living standards over the last 3 decades been a "miracle" (according to the World Bank), the next few years will show whether Xi's 'benevolent authority' (according to Kishore Mahbubani) can achieve the CCPs goal of 'a green, prosperous, socialist society' by 2049.

Quote:

Also, are you suggesting that the authority responsible for the deliberately slaughter, and the killing through lies and shear incompetence, of around 100 million Chinese people, is a benevolent authority?

I answered that several posts back, yet you keep asking the same dumb question - for purely rhetorical reasons, obviously. Huh

Deplorable.

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freediver

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #503 - Dec 3^rd, 2024 at 8:09pm

Quote:

But I can't see how

Your blindness is not a rational argument.

Quote:

I answered that several posts back

Apologies, I must have been distracted by all the tapdancing.

Are you suggesting that the authority responsible for the deliberate slaughter, and the killing through lies and shear incompetence, of around 100 million Chinese people, is a "benevolent authority"?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #504 - Dec 5^th, 2024 at 4:22pm

freediver wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2024 at 8:09pm:

Quote:

But I can't see how

Your blindness is not a rational argument.

Quote:

I answered that several posts back

Apologies, I must have been distracted by all the tapdancing.

Are you suggesting that the authority responsible for the deliberate slaughter, and the killing through lies and shear incompetence, of around 100 million Chinese people, is a "benevolent authority"?

Self-confessed fraudster Fraudiver is at it again, hoping he can hide his inability to debate the issues in a logical manner, via lies, denial, amd repetiton of points already refuted.

Exhibit 1

TGD:

I have said before that if a democracy in fact demonstrates it CAN implement the rights set out in the UNUDHR, including the right to good housing, and the right to above poverty employment (article 23), then I'm all in.

But I can't see how a near 50%+1 vote of self-interested citizens (the usual outcome of democratic elections) can ever achieve it, whereas a competent benevolent authority might be able to, since there is no lack of resources to prevent achieving universal prosperity, only individual greed to block its achievement.

Fraudiver imagines he has addressed those points by zeroing-in on the word "see" , using it to assert my "blindness"......problem solved (ie the need to engage your brain, obviated.) Shocked

Deplorable.

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Jasin Gold Member Online Posts: 48292 Gender:	Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda Reply #505 - Dec 5^th, 2024 at 4:34pm In the not to distant future. The politicians will fail in China when it's Military succumbs to being a tax write off by the Accountants who take control of the country. The most powerful Firm that rules China will be known as Mr Black.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #506 - Dec 5^th, 2024 at 4:57pm

And regardless of any "CCP Propaganda", today we have more evidence of Churchill's perspicacious (though incomplete) observation that "democray is the worst form of goverment:

Exhibit 1

French government collapses because the minorty-backed RW PM wanted to force through a 'deficit reduction' package to "fix the government budget".

How? By raising taxes on ordinary people (rich people know how to avoid taxes) and cutting government spending (which poor people rely on).

The collapse represents an effective demonstration of people power** counterinng mainstream economics.

[But note: the "people" in this case are very confused; the RW PM's defeat happened in parliament because the extreme Left and the extreme Right were able to combine to muster a greater number of votes than the PM's centre-R party].

The French want to avoid Argentina's fate, where the RW economic ignoramus Milei has plunged half the population into poverty "to fix inflation" via spending cuts and high interest rates. [Note: what about 'fixing' prices - literally, ie with price controls, instead of pauperizing half the population?)

France would be smart to look at the US, which has been ignoring deficits and the associated increasing government debt for many years, and yet the US economy has low unemployment, with falling interest rates and inflation.

[But note: it seems Musk wants to take the US down the same delusional balanced government budget... oh dear....no wonder Trump is spruiking bitcoin, the ultimate 'funny money', as an aid to - ahem - balance the budget]

Exhibit 2.

Germany forced backed to the polls because the ampel coalition has collapsed for similar reasons (attempting to balance the budget while German industry is being ruined by the loss of cheap Russian gas; the 'fiscal hawks' in the coalition have caused the collapse of the coalition, while Germany's infrastructre deteriorates.

(Meanwhile Trump's 'landslide' (and presumed mandate) isn't such a landslide, with the last House seat going to the Dems, resulting in a close 220 to 215 seats.

Exhibit 3.

In the UK, Starmer is already on the nose with the electorate, despite his huge majority in Parliament (partly due to the 'first past the post' system) , because his deluded Treasurer thinks she has to balance the budget.

Tick tock tick tock, the people are getting restless in these dysfunctional "democratic" charades masquerading as 'good government'.

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« Last Edit: Dec 5^th, 2024 at 5:17pm by thegreatdivide »

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freediver

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #507 - Dec 6^th, 2024 at 7:06am

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 5^th, 2024 at 4:22pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2024 at 8:09pm:

Quote:

But I can't see how

Your blindness is not a rational argument.

Quote:

I answered that several posts back

Apologies, I must have been distracted by all the tapdancing.

Are you suggesting that the authority responsible for the deliberate slaughter, and the killing through lies and shear incompetence, of around 100 million Chinese people, is a "benevolent authority"?

Self-confessed fraudster Fraudiver is at it again, hoping he can hide his inability to debate the issues in a logical manner, via lies, denial, amd repetiton of points already refuted.

Exhibit 1

TGD:

I have said before that if a democracy in fact demonstrates it CAN implement the rights set out in the UNUDHR, including the right to good housing, and the right to above poverty employment (article 23), then I'm all in.

But I can't see how a near 50%+1 vote of self-interested citizens (the usual outcome of democratic elections) can ever achieve it, whereas a competent benevolent authority might be able to, since there is no lack of resources to prevent achieving universal prosperity, only individual greed to block its achievement.

Fraudiver imagines he has addressed those points by zeroing-in on the word "see" , using it to assert my "blindness"......problem solved (ie the need to engage your brain, obviated.) Shocked

Deplorable.

It is obvious to everyone here that you are blind to the reality. Now you are confusing your blindness for a rational argument, instead of simply opening your eyes.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #508 - Dec 6^th, 2024 at 9:59am

freediver wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 7:06am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 5^th, 2024 at 4:22pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2024 at 8:09pm:

Quote:

But I can't see how

Your blindness is not a rational argument.

Quote:

I answered that several posts back

Apologies, I must have been distracted by all the tapdancing.

Are you suggesting that the authority responsible for the deliberate slaughter, and the killing through lies and shear incompetence, of around 100 million Chinese people, is a "benevolent authority"?

Self-confessed fraudster Fraudiver is at it again, hoping he can hide his inability to debate the issues in a logical manner, via lies, denial, amd repetiton of points already refuted.

Exhibit 1

TGD:

I have said before that if a democracy in fact demonstrates it CAN implement the rights set out in the UNUDHR, including the right to good housing, and the right to above poverty employment (article 23), then I'm all in.

But I can't see how a near 50%+1 vote of self-interested citizens (the usual outcome of democratic elections) can ever achieve it, whereas a competent benevolent authority might be able to, since there is no lack of resources to prevent achieving universal prosperity, only individual greed to block its achievement.

Fraudiver imagines he has addressed those points by zeroing-in on the word "see" , using it to assert my "blindness"......problem solved (ie the need to engage your brain, obviated.) Shocked

Deplorable.

It is obvious to everyone here that you are blind to the reality.

Blind to what reality? The blind, Conservative assertion that "poverty is always with us"?

Ozpol isn't a social media echo chamber, you have to defend your version of reality, not merely assert your opponent is wrong.

Quote:

Now you are confusing your blindness for a rational argument, instead of simply opening your eyes.

Still waiting for you to elucidate my errors (in the passage in blue).

Don't be shy......

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49020 At my desk.	Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda Reply #509 - Dec 6^th, 2024 at 3:32pm Quote: Blind to what reality? Life under democracy. Even while the CCP was starving tens of millions of Chinese people to death, they still had the people convinced they should feel sorry for the poor starving Americans. The CCP is still the same bunch of crooks and liars, and you are a willing cheerleader.
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