Australian Politics Forum - Chinese Communist Party Propaganda

thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #75 - Mar 27^th, 2024 at 4:44pm

freediver wrote on Mar 27^th, 2024 at 4:18pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 26^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

[quote author=freediver link=1710901371/55#55 date=1711319893]
Do you mean the same thing as the CCP when you say common prosperity?

Yes.

Quote:

Are you aware of anything you have posted on this forum that contradicts CCP policy?

Yes - example given, which YOU agree with!

What was the example?

CCP view of UNSC veto (that it should exist); do try to read posts before replying.

Quote:

What is the 'one CCP policy' you said you were addressing? (Common prosperity) is a goal, not a policy. Unless you think the CCP policy is to predict the future and cross their fingers?

The policies - to achieve the goal - are outlined in the five year plans.

You have no policies to achieve that goal in Oz.

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Frank

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #76 - Mar 27^th, 2024 at 4:54pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 27^th, 2024 at 4:44pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 27^th, 2024 at 4:18pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 26^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

[quote author=freediver link=1710901371/55#55 date=1711319893]
Do you mean the same thing as the CCP when you say common prosperity?

Yes.

Quote:

Are you aware of anything you have posted on this forum that contradicts CCP policy?

Yes - example given, which YOU agree with!

What was the example?

CCP view of UNSC veto (that it should exist); do try to read posts before replying.

Quote:

What is the 'one CCP policy' you said you were addressing? (Common prosperity) is a goal, not a policy. Unless you think the CCP policy is to predict the future and cross their fingers?

The policies - to achieve the goal - are outlined in the five year plans.

You have no policies to achieve that goal in Oz.

Nor do we make 'administrative errors' that starve 40 million people to death while trying to raise their life expectancy....

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freediver

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #77 - Mar 27^th, 2024 at 5:25pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 27^th, 2024 at 4:44pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 27^th, 2024 at 4:18pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 26^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

[quote author=freediver link=1710901371/55#55 date=1711319893]
Do you mean the same thing as the CCP when you say common prosperity?

Yes.

Quote:

Are you aware of anything you have posted on this forum that contradicts CCP policy?

Yes - example given, which YOU agree with!

What was the example?

CCP view of UNSC veto (that it should exist); do try to read posts before replying.

Quote:

What is the 'one CCP policy' you said you were addressing? (Common prosperity) is a goal, not a policy. Unless you think the CCP policy is to predict the future and cross their fingers?

The policies - to achieve the goal - are outlined in the five year plans.

You have no policies to achieve that goal in Oz.

So the "one CCP policy" you were addressing is actually several of their 5 year plans?

What views have you posted on the UNSC veto, and how do they differ from the CCP's?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #78 - Mar 28^th, 2024 at 4:47pm

Frank wrote on Mar 27^th, 2024 at 4:54pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 27^th, 2024 at 4:44pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 27^th, 2024 at 4:18pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 26^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

[quote author=freediver link=1710901371/55#55 date=1711319893]
Do you mean the same thing as the CCP when you say common prosperity?

Yes.

Quote:

Are you aware of anything you have posted on this forum that contradicts CCP policy?

Yes - example given, which YOU agree with!

What was the example?

CCP view of UNSC veto (that it should exist); do try to read posts before replying.

Quote:

What is the 'one CCP policy' you said you were addressing? (Common prosperity) is a goal, not a policy. Unless you think the CCP policy is to predict the future and cross their fingers?

The policies - to achieve the goal - are outlined in the five year plans.

You have no policies to achieve that goal in Oz.

Nor do we make 'administrative errors' that starve 40 million people to death while trying to raise their life expectancy....

Nor will the modern CCP - since the 'opening up' in 1980 - make that error.

Meanwhile your neoliberal government - blinded by market ideology - can't even engender a functioning community in the centre of Oz.

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« Last Edit: Mar 28^th, 2024 at 5:11pm by thegreatdivide »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #79 - Mar 28^th, 2024 at 5:07pm

freediver wrote on Mar 27^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 27^th, 2024 at 4:44pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 27^th, 2024 at 4:18pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 26^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

[quote author=freediver link=1710901371/55#55 date=1711319893]
Do you mean the same thing as the CCP when you say common prosperity?

Yes.

Quote:

Are you aware of anything you have posted on this forum that contradicts CCP policy?

Yes - example given, which YOU agree with!

What was the example?

CCP view of UNSC veto (that it should exist); do try to read posts before replying.

Quote:

What is the 'one CCP policy' you said you were addressing? (Common prosperity) is a goal, not a policy. Unless you think the CCP policy is to predict the future and cross their fingers?

The policies - to achieve the goal - are outlined in the five year plans.

You have no policies to achieve that goal in Oz.

So the "one CCP policy" you were addressing is actually several of their 5 year plans?

So we might be able to nail this down:

The CCP has "common prosperity" as a goal.

I have "common prosperity" as a goal.

The West - blinded by its free market ideology - doesn't have "common prosperity" as a goal.

["The markets make good servants but bad masters, and a worse religion": Amory Lovins.]

As to policies to achieve "common prosperity", I like MMT, and I'm pleased to see a former PBofC executive (who spoke at the recent '2 sessions' in Beijing) is also aware of MMT, as a tool to avoid a Japanese-style deflationary 'lost decades' episode (after their 1990 real-estate crash).

Quote:

What views have you posted on the UNSC veto, and how do they differ from the CCP's?

That the veto should be scrapped, as per Doc Evatt's original plan for the proposed UNSC, in 1946. (Evatt was a former Oz High Court judge, active in the creation of the UN).

The CCP rejects the West's (and your) "shared belief" in the 'rules based order', when the rules are based on your 'natural individual rights'** delusion. Hence the CCP might want to retain its UNSC veto.

**'Natural'...meaning 'self-evident' (as graps pointed out); but delusions aren't self-evident for the deluded.

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« Last Edit: Mar 28^th, 2024 at 5:38pm by thegreatdivide »

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #80 - Mar 28^th, 2024 at 5:34pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28^th, 2024 at 5:07pm:

The CCP has "common prosperity" as a goal.

I have "common prosperity" as a goal.

The West - blinded by its free market ideology - doesn't have "common prosperity" as a goal.

["The markets make good servants but bad masters, and a worse religion": Amory Lovins.]

So, the CCP's pouring 'free' money into anything leads to common prosperity, eh!

Free, until it's clawed back by raiding ordinary people's savings accounts without warning or recompense.

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freediver

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #81 - Mar 28^th, 2024 at 5:36pm

Quote:

That the veto should be scrapped, as per Doc Evatt's original plan for the proposed UNSC, in 1946. (Evatt was a former Oz High Court judge, active in the creation of the UN).

The CCP rejects the West's (and your) "shared belief" in the 'rules based order', when the rules are based on your 'natural individual rights'** delusion. Hence the CCP might want to retain its UNSC veto.

So the only view you have posted here that is contrary to CCP policy is one you haven't actually posted here previously, and you are not sure if it is contrary to CCP policy?

Quote:

The CCP has "common prosperity" as a goal.

I have "common prosperity" as a goal.

The West - blinded by its free market ideology - doesn't have "common prosperity" as a goal.

I expect everyone would accept that as a goal. By itself, it doesn't mean much. Most of what you say doesn't mean much. You post the spin that the CCP puts on it's policies, but seem ignorant of any detail or understanding.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #82 - Mar 28^th, 2024 at 5:44pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 28^th, 2024 at 5:34pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28^th, 2024 at 5:07pm:

The CCP has "common prosperity" as a goal.

I have "common prosperity" as a goal.

The West - blinded by its free market ideology - doesn't have "common prosperity" as a goal.

["The markets make good servants but bad masters, and a worse religion": Amory Lovins.]

So, the CCP's pouring 'free' money into anything leads to common prosperity, eh!

No. The CCP is not issuing debt free government money (but it should be, to avoid deflation).

Quote:

Free, until it's clawed back by raiding ordinary people's savings accounts without warning or recompense.

See above.

And you don't understand MMT.

No excuse, there are pages explaining it on this board.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #83 - Mar 28^th, 2024 at 5:53pm

freediver wrote on Mar 28^th, 2024 at 5:36pm:

Quote:

That the veto should be scrapped, as per Doc Evatt's original plan for the proposed UNSC, in 1946. (Evatt was a former Oz High Court judge, active in the creation of the UN).

The CCP rejects the West's (and your) "shared belief" in the 'rules based order', when the rules are based on your 'natural individual rights'** delusion. Hence the CCP might want to retain its UNSC veto.

So the only view you have posted here that is contrary to CCP policy is one you haven't actually posted here previously, and you are not sure if it is contrary to CCP policy?

Correct (I'll take your word for all of that). Problem?

Quote:

I expect everyone would accept (Common prosperity) as a goal.

"You expect"? You obviously aren't aware of the debates among economists, many of whom poor scorn on the concept: after all, you have to increase unemployment to kill inflation, right?..... just ask Bullock.

Quote:

By itself, it doesn't mean much.

You mean, without the policies needed to achieve it, - which I discussed in my post......

Quote:

Most of what you say doesn't mean much. You post the spin that the CCP puts on it's policies, but seem ignorant of any detail or understanding.

Refuted above.

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Frank

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #84 - Mar 28^th, 2024 at 6:02pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28^th, 2024 at 4:47pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 27^th, 2024 at 4:54pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 27^th, 2024 at 4:44pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 27^th, 2024 at 4:18pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 26^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

[quote author=freediver link=1710901371/55#55 date=1711319893]
Do you mean the same thing as the CCP when you say common prosperity?

Yes.

Quote:

Are you aware of anything you have posted on this forum that contradicts CCP policy?

Yes - example given, which YOU agree with!

What was the example?

CCP view of UNSC veto (that it should exist); do try to read posts before replying.

Quote:

What is the 'one CCP policy' you said you were addressing? (Common prosperity) is a goal, not a policy. Unless you think the CCP policy is to predict the future and cross their fingers?

The policies - to achieve the goal - are outlined in the five year plans.

You have no policies to achieve that goal in Oz.

Nor do we make 'administrative errors' that starve 40 million people to death while trying to raise their life expectancy....

Nor will the modern CCP - since the 'opening up' in 1980 - make that error.

Meanwhile your neoliberal government - blinded by market ideology - can't even engender a functioning community in the centre of Oz.

So what changed in China? The old monster died. Then

At the Fifth Plenum held in 1980, Peng Zhen, He Long and other leaders who had been purged during the Cultural Revolution were rehabilitated. Hu Yaobang became head of the party secretariat as its secretary-general. In September, Hua Guofeng resigned and Zhao Ziyang, another Deng ally, was named premier. Hua remained on the Central Military Commission, but formal power was transferred to a new generation of pragmatic reformers, who reversed Cultural Revolution policies to a large extent. Within a few years, Deng and Hu helped rehabilitate over 3 million "unjust, false, erroneous" cases.[74] In particular, the trial of the Gang of Four took place in Beijing from 1980 to 1981, and the court stated that 729,511 people had been persecuted by the Gang, of whom 34,800 were said to have died.[75]

In 1981, the Chinese Communist Party passed a resolution and declared that the Cultural Revolution was "responsible for the most severe setback and the heaviest losses suffered by the Party, the country, and the people since the founding of the People's Republic

One massive 'administrative error', eh? Millions dead. Oopsa daisy!

As for Alice - the CCP can't get the sons of Mohammed go along with the Xi Ping Pong wheeze so they are locked up in prison camps. Should we treat the Abot as the Chinese treat their Uyghurs? Reeducation camps = well paid jobs for Abos. Full employment of slave labour.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #85 - Mar 28^th, 2024 at 6:15pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28^th, 2024 at 5:53pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 28^th, 2024 at 5:36pm:

Quote:

That the veto should be scrapped, as per Doc Evatt's original plan for the proposed UNSC, in 1946. (Evatt was a former Oz High Court judge, active in the creation of the UN).

The CCP rejects the West's (and your) "shared belief" in the 'rules based order', when the rules are based on your 'natural individual rights'** delusion. Hence the CCP might want to retain its UNSC veto.

So the only view you have posted here that is contrary to CCP policy is one you haven't actually posted here previously, and you are not sure if it is contrary to CCP policy?

Correct (I'll take your word for all of that). Problem?

Quote:

I expect everyone would accept (Common prosperity) as a goal.

"You expect"? You obviously aren't aware of the debates among economists, many of whom poor scorn on the concept: after all, you have to increase unemployment to kill inflation, right?..... just ask Bullock.

Quote:

By itself, it doesn't mean much.

You mean, without the policies needed to achieve it, - which I discussed in my post......

Quote:

Most of what you say doesn't mean much. You post the spin that the CCP puts on it's policies, but seem ignorant of any detail or understanding.

Refuted above.

At 22:25

"The whole [CCP] system's a badly run Enron"

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freediver

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #86 - Mar 28^th, 2024 at 6:33pm

Quote:

Correct (I'll take your word for all of that). Problem?

When I asked if you were aware of anything you had posted on this forum that contradicts CCP policy, I meant something you had actually posted on this forum and which actually contradicted CCP policy.

Quote:

"You expect"? You obviously aren't aware of the debates among economists, many of whom poor scorn on the concept

They poor scorn on a different concept. Either that, or you have misunderstood mainstream macroeconomics. I can't tell which. Economics is not about what political goals people have, but the reality of what they do with their money.

Quote:

You mean, without the policies needed to achieve it, - which I discussed in my post......

You mentioned MMT, which you claim to support and which you also claim to CCP is "aware" of. Is that it?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #87 - Mar 29^th, 2024 at 8:54am

freediver wrote on Mar 28^th, 2024 at 6:33pm:

Quote:

Correct (I'll take your word for all of that). Problem?

When I asked if you were aware of anything you had posted on this forum that contradicts CCP policy, I meant something you had actually posted on this forum and which actually contradicted CCP policy.

Er.... my urging to abolish the UNSC veto has been one of my most frequently referred-to subjects, on this board.

As to the CCP's views, I'm quessing they want to retain China's veto, for reasons already explained (ie the West's fake, delusional 'rules-based order' based on indivdual rights which don't exist in reality).

Quote:

They poor scorn on a different concept. Either that, or you have misunderstood mainstream macroeconomics. I can't tell which. Economics is not about what political goals people have, but the reality of what they do with their money.

Classic conservative fallacy of composition, caused by claiming the individual is the community. What individuals do with their money will not teach us how the macroeconomy works.

eg, as Keynes noted during the GD: if everyone decides to be frugal at the same time, the macro-economy will worsen.
I accept your concession.....

Quote:

You mentioned MMT, which you claim to support and which you also claim to CCP is "aware" of.

Correct.

Quote:

Is that it?

Is that what, exactly?

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freediver

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #88 - Mar 29^th, 2024 at 9:07am

Quote:

As to the CCP's views, I'm quessing they want to retain China's veto

Are you aware of anything else you have posted on this forum that contradicts CCP policy?

I expect the CCP would happily give up their veto if it meant the other veto powers were abolished. The more China can do to make the UN ineffective, the better for them. Obviously they would be happy to have the only veto in the UN.

Quote:

Classic conservative fallacy of composition, caused by claiming the individual is the community. What individuals do with their money will not teach us how the macroeconomy works.

eg, as Keynes noted during the GD: if everyone decides to be frugal at the same time, the macro-economy will worsen.
I accept your concession.....

I did not claim the individual is the community. When I talked about what people do with their money, why would you interpret that as excluding macroeconomic trends?

Quote:

Is that what, exactly?

You said you discussed the policies needed to achieve "common prosperity", in the context of you agreeing with CCP policies. Is this limited to you claiming to support MMT and claiming the CCP is aware of it?

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« Last Edit: Mar 29^th, 2024 at 9:13am by freediver »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #89 - Mar 29^th, 2024 at 9:12am

Frank wrote on Mar 28^th, 2024 at 6:02pm:

In 1981, the Chinese Communist Party passed a resolution and declared that the Cultural Revolution was "responsible for the most severe setback and the heaviest losses suffered by the Party, the country, and the people since the founding of the People's Republic

Obviously a party capable of self examination, unlike deluded 'natural invidual rights' ideologues.

Quote:

One massive 'administrative error', eh? Millions dead. Oopsa daisy!

Yes - as addressed by the CCP.

Quote:

As for Alice - the CCP....

Er - the CCP aren't the (mal-) administrators in the Alice....

Quote:

can't get the sons of Mohammed go along with the Xi Ping Pong wheeze so they are locked up in prison camps.

Separatism is an issue for national sovereignty; ask the Scots (and Westminster).

Quote:

Should we treat the Abot as the Chinese treat their Uyghurs? Reeducation camps = well paid jobs for Abos. Full employment of slave labour.

Increasing living standards is a good; remaining mired in separatist, culture-based violence and poverty is not.

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