Australian Politics Forum - WW3? An informed conservative perspective

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49091 At my desk.	Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective Reply #165 - Apr 16^th, 2024 at 4:14pm You just need to fill out the right forms and trust the CCP to take care of everything.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #166 - Apr 17^th, 2024 at 10:23am

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 2:17pm:

Quote:

You are confused. What the CCP did last century isn't relevant to how the UN must reform now.

It is relevant. You consistently choose the worst possible option.

UN reform is independent of CCP policy.

Quote:

You expect people to trust the CCP

No I don't, I expect people to work to reform the UN, by waking up to the lizard brain in all of us which is the barrier to UN reform.

Meaning your "subjective reality/shared belief" delusions will need to be exposed for what they are: the self-interested nonsense of naturally competitive, self-interested individuals who would rather not submit to rule of law which of necessity limits individual political and cultural 'sovereignty' and 'freedom'.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 46568 Gender:	Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective Reply #167 - Apr 17^th, 2024 at 10:36am freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 4:14pm: You just need to fill out the right forms and trust the CCP to take care of everything. And NO admin errors this time, right? We don't want another 40 million dead due to an admin error. The paperwork must be korrekt at all times.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #168 - Apr 17^th, 2024 at 10:52am

Frank wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 4:11pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 2:02pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 12:23pm:

The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.

I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).

So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?

By instituting examination in the UNGA of necessary UN reform, including the need to eliminate the UNSC veto.

How is that to be done?

By continuing the process already started in the UN:

"The "enormous influence of the veto power" has been cited as a cause of the UN's ineffectiveness in preventing and responding to genocide, violence, and human rights violations.[47] Various countries outside the permanent members, such as the Non-Aligned Movement and African Union, have proposed limitations on the veto power.[48] Reform of the veto power is often included in proposals for reforming the Security Council."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power#:~:text...

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Frank

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #169 - Apr 17^th, 2024 at 10:58am

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 10:52am:

Frank wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 4:11pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 2:02pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 12:23pm:

The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.

I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).

So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?

By instituting examination in the UNGA of necessary UN reform, including the need to eliminate the UNSC veto.

How is that to be done?

By continuing the process already started in the UN:

"The "enormous influence of the veto power" has been cited as a cause of the UN's ineffectiveness in preventing and responding to genocide, violence, and human rights violations.[47] Various countries outside the permanent members, such as the Non-Aligned Movement and African Union, have proposed limitations on the veto power.[48] Reform of the veto power is often included in proposals for reforming the Security Council."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power#:~:text...

The resolution to create Israel AND an Arab state next to is was not vetoed.

So what is the relevance of the veto power in the case of Israel and Hamarse?

You are, as usual, barking up the wrong tree.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #170 - Apr 17^th, 2024 at 11:42am

Frank wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 10:58am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 10:52am:

Frank wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 4:11pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 2:02pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 12:23pm:

The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.

I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).

So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?

By instituting examination in the UNGA of necessary UN reform, including the need to eliminate the UNSC veto.

How is that to be done?

By continuing the process already started in the UN:

"The "enormous influence of the veto power" has been cited as a cause of the UN's ineffectiveness in preventing and responding to genocide, violence, and human rights violations.[47] Various countries outside the permanent members, such as the Non-Aligned Movement and African Union, have proposed limitations on the veto power.[48] Reform of the veto power is often included in proposals for reforming the Security Council."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power#:~:text...

The resolution to create Israel AND an Arab state next to is was not vetoed.

Because the Arab world wasn't represented in the UNSC.

Quote:

So what is the relevance of the veto power in the case of Israel and Hamarse?

The US alone has consistently vetoed resolutions condemning Israel, since 1967.

Quote:

You are, as usual, barking up the wrong tree.

Refuted above.

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Frank

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #171 - Apr 17^th, 2024 at 12:12pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 11:42am:

Frank wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 10:58am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 10:52am:

Frank wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 4:11pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 2:02pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 12:23pm:

The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.

I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).

So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?

By instituting examination in the UNGA of necessary UN reform, including the need to eliminate the UNSC veto.

How is that to be done?

By continuing the process already started in the UN:

"The "enormous influence of the veto power" has been cited as a cause of the UN's ineffectiveness in preventing and responding to genocide, violence, and human rights violations.[47] Various countries outside the permanent members, such as the Non-Aligned Movement and African Union, have proposed limitations on the veto power.[48] Reform of the veto power is often included in proposals for reforming the Security Council."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power#:~:text...

The resolution to create Israel AND an Arab state next to is was not vetoed.

Because the Arab world wasn't represented in the UNSC.

Quote:

So what is the relevance of the veto power in the case of Israel and Hamarse?

The US alone has consistently vetoed resolutions condemning Israel, since 1967.

Quote:

You are, as usual, barking up the wrong tree.

Refuted above.

There was NO security council role in the vote for the creation of TWO states.

The Arabs simply did not accept to play by the rules, not then, not since.

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« Last Edit: Apr 17^th, 2024 at 12:39pm by Frank »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #172 - Apr 17^th, 2024 at 1:09pm

Frank wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 12:12pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 11:42am:

Frank wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 10:58am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 10:52am:

Frank wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 4:11pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 2:02pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 12:23pm:

The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.

I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).

So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?

By instituting examination in the UNGA of necessary UN reform, including the need to eliminate the UNSC veto.

How is that to be done?

By continuing the process already started in the UN:

"The "enormous influence of the veto power" has been cited as a cause of the UN's ineffectiveness in preventing and responding to genocide, violence, and human rights violations.[47] Various countries outside the permanent members, such as the Non-Aligned Movement and African Union, have proposed limitations on the veto power.[48] Reform of the veto power is often included in proposals for reforming the Security Council."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power#:~:text...

The resolution to create Israel AND an Arab state next to is was not vetoed.

Because the Arab world wasn't represented in the UNSC.

Quote:

So what is the relevance of the veto power in the case of Israel and Hamarse?

The US alone has consistently vetoed resolutions condemning Israel, since 1967.

Quote:

You are, as usual, barking up the wrong tree.

Refuted above.

There was NO security council role in the vote for the creation of TWO states.

The flaw in your argument is the UN failed to implement its Partiton Plan in full, and since 1967 the US has used its UNSC veto to prevent implementation of the Plan.

Quote:

The Arabs simply did not accept to play by the rules, not then, not since.

"Not then" - correct; but "not since" - more complicated; the Arabs would have accepted UN res 242 in 1967, and Yasser Arafat would have signed up, including East Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine.

The US's UNSC veto prevented it.

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Frank

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #173 - Apr 17^th, 2024 at 2:10pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 1:09pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 12:12pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 11:42am:

Frank wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 10:58am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 10:52am:

Frank wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 4:11pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 2:02pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 12:23pm:

The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.

I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).

So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?

By instituting examination in the UNGA of necessary UN reform, including the need to eliminate the UNSC veto.

How is that to be done?

By continuing the process already started in the UN:

"The "enormous influence of the veto power" has been cited as a cause of the UN's ineffectiveness in preventing and responding to genocide, violence, and human rights violations.[47] Various countries outside the permanent members, such as the Non-Aligned Movement and African Union, have proposed limitations on the veto power.[48] Reform of the veto power is often included in proposals for reforming the Security Council."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power#:~:text...

The resolution to create Israel AND an Arab state next to is was not vetoed.

Because the Arab world wasn't represented in the UNSC.

Quote:

So what is the relevance of the veto power in the case of Israel and Hamarse?

The US alone has consistently vetoed resolutions condemning Israel, since 1967.

Quote:

You are, as usual, barking up the wrong tree.

Refuted above.

There was NO security council role in the vote for the creation of TWO states.

The flaw in your argument is the UN failed to implement its Partiton Plan in full, and since 1967 the US has used its UNSC veto to prevent implementation of the Plan.

Quote:

The Arabs simply did not accept to play by the rules, not then, not since.

The Muslims started the wars in 1948 and again in 1967 DESPITE the UN resolution to create the two states. The Muslims simply do not accept the UN resolution that endorsed the creation of two states, one Jewish, one Muslim. Note, the UN did not create Israel, it simply endorsed the creation of the two states. The Jews accepted it, the Muslims went to war.

The UN couldn't force anyone, it has never had the moral or military power to 'implement' anything, regardless of security council veto. Only member states can implement UN resolutions, supply peace keepers or militarily enforce they will, supported or not by the UN.

The Muslims have not been acting in good faith because they have not accepted Israel's right to exist or the UN's jurisdiction to endorse the creation of two states. They want a Judenfrei Muslim middle East.

Your endless waffle about UNSC veto is totally irrelevant. You never once shown how it has ANY relevance to the creation of Israel in 1948, to the armistice in 1949 or to the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank by Egypt and Jordan.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #174 - Apr 17^th, 2024 at 3:18pm

WHAT? You expect either an informed Woke perspective or an informed Conservative perspective?

Where you bin, Laden? The secret de jour is to NOT be informed... but to be biased and uninformed in forming a view .... how would our politics and social interactions in Australia and the Rest of The West get along if people were actually informed....??

An informed people is a dangerous people, armed with knowledge and understanding - the very worst enemy of government.... all those billions spent turning out savants in Aboriginal Mathematics and Aboriginal Calendars who cannot read or write or add up or invent a stick with a stone head ... and you expect an 'informed' society?

Where the hell you bin hidin', Biden?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Jasin

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #175 - Apr 17^th, 2024 at 6:06pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 11:42am:

Frank wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 10:58am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 10:52am:

Frank wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 4:11pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 2:02pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 12:23pm:

The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.

I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).

So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?

By instituting examination in the UNGA of necessary UN reform, including the need to eliminate the UNSC veto.

How is that to be done?

By continuing the process already started in the UN:

"The "enormous influence of the veto power" has been cited as a cause of the UN's ineffectiveness in preventing and responding to genocide, violence, and human rights violations.[47] Various countries outside the permanent members, such as the Non-Aligned Movement and African Union, have proposed limitations on the veto power.[48] Reform of the veto power is often included in proposals for reforming the Security Council."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power#:~:text...

The resolution to create Israel AND an Arab state next to is was not vetoed.

Because the Arab world wasn't represented in the UNSC.

Quote:

So what is the relevance of the veto power in the case of Israel and Hamarse?

The US alone has consistently vetoed resolutions condemning Israel, since 1967.

Quote:

You are, as usual, barking up the wrong tree.

Refuted above.

The USA has continually condemned many Dictators 'over-the-table' and on Media (the 'Show') while funding and supporting them 'under-the-table', even putting them in place (to keep their nations 'weak' for US National Security).
...like they do here via the Prime Ministers - like Albanese and Juliar Gillard, unlike Rudd who wouldn't tow the line to the USA so we know what happened to him, eh. Wink

So who cares what a corrupt 'Media-Mafia' Privatised Political nation like the USA says? It will undermine anything International for its own selfish gain.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Frank

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #176 - Apr 18^th, 2024 at 1:15pm

National Conservatism Conference: Police told to shut down right-wing Brussels event

Brussels police were ordered to shut down a conference for right-wing politicians, including Brexiteer Nigel Farage and Hungary's Prime Minister Viktor Orban, on Tuesday.

People were stopped from entering the National Conservatism Conference a few hours after it began, organisers said - although it continued for those inside.

The local mayor said he issued the order to ensure public security.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68826577

The local mayor? Step forward, Emir Kir. A socialist Turk.

The move to shut down the conference was also criticised by Belgian Prime Minister Alexander De Croo, who called it "unacceptable". "Banning political meetings is unconstitutional. Full stop," Mr De Croo wrote on X.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #177 - Apr 24^th, 2024 at 3:46pm

Frank wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 2:10pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 1:09pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 12:12pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 11:42am:

Frank wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 10:58am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17^th, 2024 at 10:52am:

Frank wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 4:11pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 2:02pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2024 at 12:23pm:

The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.

I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).

So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?

By instituting examination in the UNGA of necessary UN reform, including the need to eliminate the UNSC veto.

How is that to be done?

By continuing the process already started in the UN:

"The "enormous influence of the veto power" has been cited as a cause of the UN's ineffectiveness in preventing and responding to genocide, violence, and human rights violations.[47] Various countries outside the permanent members, such as the Non-Aligned Movement and African Union, have proposed limitations on the veto power.[48] Reform of the veto power is often included in proposals for reforming the Security Council."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power#:~:text...

The resolution to create Israel AND an Arab state next to is was not vetoed.

Because the Arab world wasn't represented in the UNSC.

Quote:

So what is the relevance of the veto power in the case of Israel and Hamarse?

The US alone has consistently vetoed resolutions condemning Israel, since 1967.

Quote:

You are, as usual, barking up the wrong tree.

Refuted above.

There was NO security council role in the vote for the creation of TWO states.

The flaw in your argument is the UN failed to implement its Partiton Plan in full, and since 1967 the US has used its UNSC veto to prevent implementation of the Plan.

Quote:

The Arabs simply did not accept to play by the rules, not then, not since.

The Muslims started the wars in 1948 and again in 1967 DESPITE the UN resolution to create the two states.

The UN Partition resolution was intended to create two states, not to let one side force its own way when the other side (naturally) objected to the partition of their land.

The UN patently failed to create the two states; Israel should never have been recognized WITHOUT the creation of the Palestinian state as well.

Quote:

The UN couldn't force anyone, it has never had the moral or military power to 'implement' anything,

Because your delusional "national sovereignty" ideology rendered the UN powerless to maintian the peace - by force when necessary; just as a police force within a nation has to maintain the peace by force, to avoid chaos.

Quote:

regardless of security council veto. Only member states can implement UN resolutions, supply peace keepers or militarily enforce they will, supported or not by the UN.

Addressed above; the veto renders the UNSC incapable of maintaining peace between belligerents, whereas as a national police force CAN establish peace - by force - between warring criminal gangs within a nation.

Quote:

The Muslims have not been acting in good faith because they have not accepted Israel's right to exist or the UN's jurisdiction to endorse the creation of two states. They want a Judenfrei Muslim middle East.

Correct (but see above, Israel should not have been recognized without recognition of the Palestinian state).

Quote:

Your endless waffle about UNSC veto is totally irrelevant. You never once shown how it has ANY relevance to the creation of Israel in 1948, to the armistice in 1949 or to the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank by Egypt and Jordan.

Addressed and refuted above. Let me know when you are ready to establish effective international law, capable of over-riding anachronistic 'national sovereignty'.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49091 At my desk.	Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective Reply #178 - Apr 24^th, 2024 at 3:51pm Quote: The UN Partition resolution was intended to create two states No state has ever been created by a committee or a piece of paper. It was intended to sanction the creation of two states. It still requires someone, usually the locals, to actually do something about it.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #179 - Apr 24^th, 2024 at 4:00pm

freediver wrote on Apr 24^th, 2024 at 3:51pm:

Quote:

The UN Partition resolution was intended to create two states

No state has ever been created by a committee or a piece of paper.

Er...even Frank noted the UN granted itself the right to create states.

Quote:

It was intended to sanction the creation of two states.

Which means ...create two states.

Quote:

It still requires someone, usually the locals, to actually do something about it.

Sure, in your delusional national sovereingty/ "individual freedom" ideology which rejects establishing effective international law.

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