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indigenous athletes reach Ironman Australia goal (Read 1983 times)
UnSubRocky
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Re: indigenous athletes reach Ironman Australia goal
Reply #60 - May 23rd, 2024 at 8:37am
 
Aboriginal Plant use and Technology

Were these things found in Papua?
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Brian Ross
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Re: indigenous athletes reach Ironman Australia goal
Reply #61 - May 23rd, 2024 at 4:02pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 12:55am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 9:19pm:
I have to laugh at all attempts to pin the extinction of the Mega-Fauna on Indigenous Australians while at the same time claiming they were only hunter-gathers, without much in the way of technology.  There is no evidence of predation of Indigenous Australians on the Mega-Fauna.  None.  None in any midden heaps, none in any caves, none.  The Mega-Fauna died out because of a changing climate - the drying out of the Australian continent.  They existed on the continent for thousands of years after the arrival of Indigenous Australians,  Yes, the Indigenous Australians may have tried to hunt them but spears and bows and arrows were totally inadequate for the task.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Whilst I believe that changing climactic conditions could have been the main factor in the extinction of megafauna, 40,000 years ago, I think the indigenous people would have had enough skill and weaponry to hunt the megafauna first, before they went after other wildlife.

And simply because you don't see bones in midden heaps, that does not mean that the indigenous did not hunt them for food. Bones do eventually break done. People never saw dinosaur bones out in the open as evidence of them being in existence. People had discovered them during digs. I dare say that 40,000 years of physical weathering would have meant that those bones would have broken down. The discovery of the megafauna bones might have been preserved underground.


You are still missing the point - there is no evidence that predation occurred.  Why are shells and other bones still evident in midden mounds or in caves and not Mega-Fauna remains thousands of years after they were consumed?  You are basing your claims on supposition rather than evidence.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: indigenous athletes reach Ironman Australia goal
Reply #62 - May 23rd, 2024 at 6:10pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 4:02pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 12:55am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 9:19pm:
I have to laugh at all attempts to pin the extinction of the Mega-Fauna on Indigenous Australians while at the same time claiming they were only hunter-gathers, without much in the way of technology.  There is no evidence of predation of Indigenous Australians on the Mega-Fauna.  None.  None in any midden heaps, none in any caves, none.  The Mega-Fauna died out because of a changing climate - the drying out of the Australian continent.  They existed on the continent for thousands of years after the arrival of Indigenous Australians,  Yes, the Indigenous Australians may have tried to hunt them but spears and bows and arrows were totally inadequate for the task.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Whilst I believe that changing climactic conditions could have been the main factor in the extinction of megafauna, 40,000 years ago, I think the indigenous people would have had enough skill and weaponry to hunt the megafauna first, before they went after other wildlife.

And simply because you don't see bones in midden heaps, that does not mean that the indigenous did not hunt them for food. Bones do eventually break done. People never saw dinosaur bones out in the open as evidence of them being in existence. People had discovered them during digs. I dare say that 40,000 years of physical weathering would have meant that those bones would have broken down. The discovery of the megafauna bones might have been preserved underground.


You are still missing the point - there is no evidence that predation occurred.  Why are shells and other bones still evident in midden mounds or in caves and not Mega-Fauna remains thousands of years after they were consumed?  You are basing your claims on supposition rather than evidence.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Maybe aborigines havent been here for 30, 40, 60 70 thousand years.  Sad Shocked Shocked

https://australian.museum/learn/science/human-evolution/the-spread-of-people-to-...


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UnSubRocky
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Re: indigenous athletes reach Ironman Australia goal
Reply #63 - May 23rd, 2024 at 8:54pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 4:02pm:
You are still missing the point - there is no evidence that predation occurred.  Why are shells and other bones still evident in midden mounds or in caves and not Mega-Fauna remains thousands of years after they were consumed?  You are basing your claims on supposition rather than evidence.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Brian, there is evidence that I eat fruit, vegetables and eggs. The remnants are found either in my scrap bin or in my compost bin. There is no evidence that I have eaten beef cattle, lamb, pigs, etc., even though I claim that I have eaten those types of animals. Why are the remains of the animal (the bones, the skin, etc) not in my bins as evidence that I have consumed such animals as the meat portion of my meals? Probably because the bones were discarded back at the butchers where I purchased the meat.

My estimate would be that the megafauna were so large that I could assume the meat was cut from the animal where it lay and then the remainder of the carcass was left to rot. The indigenous would not have discarded bones into the middens nearby their camp. Probably would have been too much work to drag heavy bones back to cook.
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UnSubRocky
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Re: indigenous athletes reach Ironman Australia goal
Reply #64 - May 23rd, 2024 at 8:57pm
 
Frank wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 6:10pm:
Maybe aborigines havent been here for 30, 40, 60 70 thousand years.  Sad Shocked Shocked

https://australian.museum/learn/science/human-evolution/the-spread-of-people-to-...


I figure that the megafauna's extinction would have occurred as the arrival of people made their way into Australia. The remnants of the mega fauna would only have been known to the very few new arrivals.
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Re: indigenous athletes reach Ironman Australia goal
Reply #65 - May 23rd, 2024 at 9:36pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 8:54pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 4:02pm:
You are still missing the point - there is no evidence that predation occurred.  Why are shells and other bones still evident in midden mounds or in caves and not Mega-Fauna remains thousands of years after they were consumed?  You are basing your claims on supposition rather than evidence.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Brian, there is evidence that I eat fruit, vegetables and eggs. The remnants are found either in my scrap bin or in my compost bin. There is no evidence that I have eaten beef cattle, lamb, pigs, etc., even though I claim that I have eaten those types of animals. Why are the remains of the animal (the bones, the skin, etc) not in my bins as evidence that I have consumed such animals as the meat portion of my meals? Probably because the bones were discarded back at the butchers where I purchased the meat.

My estimate would be that the megafauna were so large that I could assume the meat was cut from the animal where it lay and then the remainder of the carcass was left to rot. The indigenous would not have discarded bones into the middens nearby their camp. Probably would have been too much work to drag heavy bones back to cook.


As I keep pointing out there is no evidence, none that predation occurred on Mega-Fauna by Indigenous Australians.  Until you can find some, I will be forced to dismiss your suppositions as well, supposition, some made without evidence of any kind.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: indigenous athletes reach Ironman Australia goal
Reply #66 - May 23rd, 2024 at 9:44pm
 
You are comparing the bone remnants of a species of megafauna last in Australia 40,000 years ago to that of bone remnants found 150+ years ago. Did you remember the topic about pottery I think you started? Pieces of pottery that look like rocks. I could suggest that 40,000 year old bones found in middens would not resemble a bone structure of a large animal.

Like I said earlier... they did not find dinosaur bones sitting out in the open. They were preserved underground for millions of years. Any bones that sits out in the open for thousands of years would have broken down and become dust long before anyone would have given any thought of the possibility that the bones belonged to a large animal.
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Re: indigenous athletes reach Ironman Australia goal
Reply #67 - May 24th, 2024 at 2:00pm
 
Why do we even know about the existence of Mega-Fauna then, UnSub?  Their remains have been found, none with signs of predation by Indigenous Australians on them.  None.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: indigenous athletes reach Ironman Australia goal
Reply #68 - May 24th, 2024 at 2:38pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 24th, 2024 at 2:00pm:
Why do we even know about the existence of Mega-Fauna then, UnSub?  Their remains have been found, none with signs of predation by Indigenous Australians on them.  None.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Do... I ... have... to... type.... slowly... for... you?

Dinosaur bones -- the type of bones that would have dated back 60+ million years ago, were preserved underground with minimal physical weathering. That is why you find archaeologists finding bones of large dinosaurs still preserved after all this time, instead of being worn away by the elements.

Megafauna bones -- the type of bones that would have dated back 40,000 years ago (according to the few readings online I have done). Had they been left out in the open (either sitting in middens or sitting where they lay dying), 40,000 years later, they would cease to exist as anything more than just dust particles that have blown away. Having been covered over by layers of dirt to prevent the elements of climate from wearing away the bones. The carcass itself would have decayed. The bones would have worn down over the years.

I take it that the idea of Egyptians mummifying the pharaohs would have been laughable to you in terms of preservation of the remains. According to your argument, the Egyptians could have left the deceased out in the open and we would still have evidence of a skeleton from 3000 years ago.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20646883/

Quote:
The structural breakdown of skeletal remains follows a lengthy decomposition process, progressing from the appearance of cracking along the bone to complete loss of shape and skeletal integrity, that can occur in as early as 6 years or as long as 30.


Online guides suggest that breakdowns can occur in as little as 6 years. Can you imagine how broken down a skeleton would be in 40,000 years?

Unless you take action to preserve a body in some preservation technique, your body, Brian, will not exist in 100 years.

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Re: indigenous athletes reach Ironman Australia goal
Reply #69 - May 28th, 2024 at 9:44pm
 
Sounds to me, like your desperately attempting to prove your case, despite the complete lack of evidence to support it, UnSub.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: indigenous athletes reach Ironman Australia goal
Reply #70 - May 29th, 2024 at 12:47am
 
Imagine what they could do if they left their eating habits and lifestyle choices out of it....
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Re: indigenous athletes reach Ironman Australia goal
Reply #71 - May 29th, 2024 at 9:56am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 8:24am:
Gnads wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 5:24am:
Ask yourself that question you clown.

Forget climate change .... they used kangaroo and possum skins didn't they?

We're not talking about European advancement .... we're talking 65,000 years(that's the claim) of Stone Age Hunter Gatherer culture/ surviving in isolation until 1788.

What were their advancements????????

Your level of reading & comprehension needs some remedial attention.

I could know nothing but would still know 4 times what you pretend to know.


In other words, you would claim to know just as much as I, in your own estimation. But, you are too stupid to realise your mistake. Advantage USR.

Let's be honest here. 1788-era indigenous people were probably Upper Paleolithic people that had not advanced much from the stone age. I would probably consider the Papuans even less advanced than 1788-era indigenous Australians. But, the indigenous people roaming the continent would have had to alter the way they dealt with the land as they explored further inland.

You might have heard of retired Major Les Hiddins aka "The Bush Tucker Man". He worked with indigenous people in helping establish which species of fruit and nut were edible. And the cataloguing and research on the nutritional value of the flora has been well known.

I would guess that there would have been a bit of trial and error in establishing which  foods were edible and which were not, during the last 40,000 years in Australia. Is that not enough that there would have been education as to which foods were to be collected/hunted and eaten, as part of indigenous Australian culture?

10,000 years ago, you could say that Europeans were on the verge of agricultural revolution. The Romans establishing places in Briton saw the native Britons as basically savages still living a Stone Ages lifestyle, not that dissimilar from indigenous Australians of 1788.

And yet, 234 years later, indigenous people are availing themselves to all manner of Australian life, in work, sport and entertainment. Yet, when a few indigenous people join a lifesaving/iron man competition, you need to call them "almost all white people" or whatever it was that you said a few pages back, just to downplay some position role models being establish among a certain demographic.

Please, keep telling people you know nothing and that everyone is as stupid as you 4 times over. Maybe you will have an aneurysm sufficient to the point that the blood flow to the rest of your brain cells will trigger a sense of shame in yourself.



In your dreams ... making more bs assumptions.

I meant what I said. You're not in the hunt.

I don't need to call them anything ... it's painfully obvious they are of mixed race.

Grin I didn't tell you or anyone else I know nothing... you can't comprehend the written word.

I said ... I'll say it again for your benefit ....

"If I knew nothing" .. that would be I'd still know 4 times more than you.

That means you know next to nothing, you just pretend that you do... 

As for wishing a stroke on someone that proves what a silly softcock you are. Shame on you.
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Re: indigenous athletes reach Ironman Australia goal
Reply #72 - May 29th, 2024 at 10:16am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 8:35am:
Gnads wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 5:28am:
I posted a link from from scientific research that refutes that claim.

You obviously didn't read it or the quote I made from it?

Stick to being a restaurant waiter ... and fetch my dinner.  Roll Eyes


Would you like extra mop with that?

I don't really care how most of the megafauna died out. I just believe that indigenous people hunting them would have led to insufficient numbers being able to breed back into survival.


The article refutes that assumption saying the impact by  a small population of Aboriginal people on a few species was not a cause in the Mega faunas extinction.
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Re: indigenous athletes reach Ironman Australia goal
Reply #73 - May 29th, 2024 at 3:48pm
 
You said "I could know nothing but would still know 4 times what you pretend to know". In other words, if I pretended to know nothing, you would genuinely know nothing... but 4 times over. So, for all the times I act disingenuous, you are being delusional for 4 times that amount.

Dude, I have been drunk the last time I responded to this topic. And I still made more sense than you.

Are you seriously trying to say that early indigenous people (even in their tens of thousands) did not make an impact on the numbers of megafauna, 40,000 years ago that helped lead to the megafauna's extinction? I do agree that the climate change would have been the main reason for the extinction. But, with few megafauna in existence after a massive population drop, humans would have hunted the rest to extinction.
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Re: indigenous athletes reach Ironman Australia goal
Reply #74 - May 31st, 2024 at 10:39pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 28th, 2024 at 9:44pm:
Sounds to me, like your desperately attempting to prove your case, despite the complete lack of evidence to support it, UnSub.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

You are a moron, Bbwian.

Or to put it another way: Bbwian, you are a moron.

...
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