Australian Politics Forum - Ukraine war update

Bobby.

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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #30 - May 20^th, 2024 at 9:03am

The Russians are crushing Ukraine.
I saw a story on TV once where the Ukrainians drafted a man 59 years of age who
had a serious heart condition and was taking medication for it -
he couldn't even jog 50 meters and they put him in the front line against the Russians.
Ukraine is running out of soldiers – too many have been killed.
It's very sad.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 101796 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Ukraine war update Reply #31 - May 20^th, 2024 at 9:11am I heard estimates of both sides losing 1,000 soldiers per day. They send anyone to the front lines as canon fodder. The true number of deaths is likely to be 500,000 on each side - that's 1 million dead so far. And meanwhile France is having their lovely Olympics soon.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48816 At my desk.	Re: Ukraine war update Reply #32 - May 20^th, 2024 at 9:48am Quote: The Russians are crushing Ukraine. Is that how they lost all that territory in 2022?
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 101796 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Ukraine war update Reply #33 - May 20^th, 2024 at 9:54am freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 9:48am: Quote: The Russians are crushing Ukraine. Is that how they lost all that territory in 2022? yes. Jump to 6:39 Ukrainian losses could be around 500,000 soldiers dead.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48816 At my desk.	Re: Ukraine war update Reply #34 - May 20^th, 2024 at 10:32am I meant the Russians lost a heap of territory. About half what they had gained. The entire northern border. And the western end of the southern area.
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Bobby.

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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #35 - May 20^th, 2024 at 10:40am

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 10:32am:

I meant the Russians lost a heap of territory. About half what they had gained. The entire northern border. And the western end of the southern area.

OK - that was then.
The Russians never expected such strong resistance.
It was similar to how they underestimated Finland in 1939.
The Russians recovered from that and won the war but
not without losing 25 million people.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #36 - May 20^th, 2024 at 10:53am

Bobby. wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 10:40am:

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 10:32am:

I meant the Russians lost a heap of territory. About half what they had gained. The entire northern border. And the western end of the southern area.

OK - that was then.
The Russians never expected such strong resistance.
It was similar to how they underestimated Finland in 1939.
The Russians recovered from that and won the war but
not without losing 25 million people.

We just need them to lose one more now - Putin.

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freediver

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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #37 - May 20^th, 2024 at 11:17am

Bobby. wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 10:40am:

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 10:32am:

I meant the Russians lost a heap of territory. About half what they had gained. The entire northern border. And the western end of the southern area.

OK - that was then.
The Russians never expected such strong resistance.
It was similar to how they underestimated Finland in 1939.
The Russians recovered from that and won the war but
not without losing 25 million people.

They do not appear to have won any of it back. Territorially, it looks like an 18 month stalemate. Hardly "crushing" anyone.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #38 - May 20^th, 2024 at 11:25am

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2024 at 9:30pm:

TGD, how exactly do you "negotiate" with a belligerent country that keeps invading? Are you suggesting that the Ukraine give up bit and pieces of it's territory to Russia every 10 years?

See the 'responsible statecraft" link again.

It takes two to tango; Putin was ready to negotiate in 2014 but NATO rejected it.

Your 2nd question ignores the answer to the first.

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10609 armidale Gender:	Re: Ukraine war update Reply #39 - May 20^th, 2024 at 11:30am Ukraine is in Ukraine. Putin is in Russia, the Russian land (Russkaia zemlia), or the Muscovite state (Moskovskoe gosudarstvo), In 1721, Peter the Great changed the name of the state Tsardom of Muscovy ( Московское царство) to Russian Empire (Rossiiskaia imperiia).
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #40 - May 20^th, 2024 at 11:39am

chimera wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 11:30am:

Ukraine is in Ukraine. Putin is in Russia, the Russian land (Russkaia zemlia), or the Muscovite state (Moskovskoe gosudarstvo), In 1721, Peter the Great changed the name of the state Tsardom of Muscovy ( Московское царство) to Russian Empire (Rossiiskaia imperiia).

But after many years of Ukraine being part of the USSR, Russians were the majority in parts of eastern Ukraine and Crimea, creating opposition to the NATO-leaning Ukranian government within Ukraine; did NATO really need to reject Putin's offer to negotiate?

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freediver

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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #41 - May 20^th, 2024 at 11:40am

thegreatdivide wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 11:25am:

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2024 at 9:30pm:

TGD, how exactly do you "negotiate" with a belligerent country that keeps invading? Are you suggesting that the Ukraine give up bit and pieces of it's territory to Russia every 10 years?

See the 'responsible statecraft" link again.

It takes two to tango; Putin was ready to negotiate in 2014 but NATO rejected it.

Your 2nd question ignores the answer to the first.

What was he ready to "negotiate"? The UN surrendering to him whatever he demands?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #42 - May 20^th, 2024 at 11:49am

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 11:40am:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 11:25am:

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2024 at 9:30pm:

TGD, how exactly do you "negotiate" with a belligerent country that keeps invading? Are you suggesting that the Ukraine give up bit and pieces of it's territory to Russia every 10 years?

See the 'responsible statecraft" link again.

It takes two to tango; Putin was ready to negotiate in 2014 but NATO rejected it.

Your 2nd question ignores the answer to the first.

What was he ready to "negotiate"? The UN surrendering to him whatever he demands?

You are ignoring the timeline - and the link.

Originally (soon after the collapse of the USSR) Putin sought admission to NATO and was rebuffed. Later when the Kiev government chose closer relations with NATO, Putin saw his 'buffer' between Russia and NATO disappearing. Read the link.

You - being a blind individual freedom ideologue, won't understand any of this; it's "freedom or death" because war is the best way to settle a dispute.....

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chimera

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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #43 - May 20^th, 2024 at 12:17pm

'Vladimir Putin stated that, the winner of the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election, Viktor Yushchenko had come to power with the help of a coup d'etat, which "at least took place in a relatively peaceful way." [this is democracy, a fascist Jewish war-tactic]. Russia negotiated its tanks into Georgia and control of NATO to distribute roses and chocolates. When China takes Siberia, Russia will negotiate, surrender and smile but keep two villages for sentimental reasons.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #44 - May 20^th, 2024 at 1:43pm

chimera wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 12:17pm:

'Vladimir Putin stated that, the winner of the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election, Viktor Yushchenko had come to power with the help of a coup d'etat, which "at least took place in a relatively peaceful way." [this is democracy, a fascist Jewish war-tactic]. Russia negotiated its tanks into Georgia and control of NATO to distribute roses and chocolates. When China takes Siberia, Russia will negotiate, surrender and smile but keep two villages for sentimental reasons.

China isn't interested in "taking Siberia", it is interested in signing trade and development deals with Putin to develop the vast potential of the Russian Far East, to the benefit of both countries.

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