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Ukraine war update (Read 33419 times)
tallowood
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #915 - Nov 4th, 2024 at 2:51pm
 
chimera wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 2:47pm:
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 2:39pm:
Kiev has extended its war aims to be inclusive of lands that are firmly in Russian control, far beyond Ukraine’s military reach.

This is Adolf Hitler's mind in action, 2024.


That is banderites plan  Grin
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tallowood
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #916 - Nov 4th, 2024 at 2:57pm
 
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 2:19pm:
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 1:54pm:
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 12:18pm:
Ukraine's Strategic Waste: A Western Military Analyst's View of the Strategic Situation That Formed During the War

Quote:
Understanding the lofty extent of Ukraine’s framework for victory, we can articulate several different “theories of victory” that Ukraine has pursued.
I am labelling them as follows:

The Short War Theory
The Crimean Isolation Plan
The Attritional Theory
The Counter-Pressure Theory



The problem for Ukraine is that, thus far at least, all of their overarching strategic visions have failed - not only in their own particular terms on the ground, but also in their connection to “victory” as such. A concrete example might be useful. Ukraine’s offensive in the Kursk region has failed on the ground (more details on this later) with the advance jammed up by Russian defenses early and now steadily rolled back with heavy losses. But the offensive also fails conceptually: attacking and holding Russian territory in Kursk has made Moscow more intransigent and unwilling to negotiate, and it has failed to meaningfully move the needle on NATO backing for Ukraine.


And this is Ukraine’s problem. It seeks the return of all its 1991 territories, including those that Russia now controls and administers, many of which are far beyond Ukraine’s realistic military reach. It is utterly inconceivable, for example, to contemplate Ukraine recapturing Donetsk with a ground operation. Donetsk is a vast industrial city of nearly a million residents, ensconced far behind Russian frontlines and fully integrated into Russia’s logistical chains. Yet the recapture of Donetsk is an explicit Ukrainian war aim.


We end up with a picture where Ukraine’s overarching strategic concept would appear to be pulling in two directions. Verbally, Zelensky has tied the prospects for negotiations to a de-escalation of the war on Russia’s part (while excluding categorically any negotiations relevant to Russia’s own war aims), but Ukraine’s own actions - attempting to double down on both long range strikes and a ground incursion into Russia - are escalatory, as are the various demands made of NATO in the peace plan. There’s a certain measure of strategic schizophrenia here, which all stems from the fact that Ukraine’s own concept of victory is far beyond its military means.
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Bobby.
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #917 - Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:01pm
 
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 2:49pm:
Bobby. wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 2:40pm:
Tallow - have a good look -
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/28/mariupol-before-and-after-updated-...
100s of square miles of mass destruction.


Mariupol was bad under banderites occupation because US and her vassals would give them money only for self destruction. Russia rebuild it and now you are envious  Wink



Ukraine won't even be half rebuilt in 30 years from now -
long after Putin is dead.
His legacy is that he destroyed Ukraine.
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chimera
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #918 - Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:03pm
 
When Stalin's jackboots ruled East Germany, NATO was formed as defence against nazi and communist force.  It wasn't expected that a Russian army would combine both of those and invade a country aligned with Europe.
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tallowood
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #919 - Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:06pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 2:49pm:
Bobby. wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 2:40pm:
Tallow - have a good look -
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/28/mariupol-before-and-after-updated-...
100s of square miles of mass destruction.


Mariupol was bad under banderites occupation because US and her vassals would give them money only for self destruction. Russia rebuild it and now you are envious  Wink

Ukraine won't even be half rebuilt in 30 years from now -
long after Putin is dead.
His legacy is that he destroyed Ukraine.


Part liberated by Russia has been rebuild already because it is Russia now.
Part under WEST's patronage is rapidly becoming 404
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Bobby.
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #920 - Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:09pm
 
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:06pm:
Bobby. wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 2:49pm:
Bobby. wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 2:40pm:
Tallow - have a good look -
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/28/mariupol-before-and-after-updated-...
100s of square miles of mass destruction.


Mariupol was bad under banderites occupation because US and her vassals would give them money only for self destruction. Russia rebuild it and now you are envious  Wink

Ukraine won't even be half rebuilt in 30 years from now -
long after Putin is dead.
His legacy is that he destroyed Ukraine.


Part liberated by Russia has been rebuild already because it is Russia now.
Part under WEST's patronage is rapidly becoming 404



Bullshit - one apartment block has been rebuilt in a sea of destruction all around it.

It's a propaganda rebuild.    Roll Eyes
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Bobby.
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #921 - Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:11pm
 
chimera wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:03pm:
When Stalin's jackboots ruled East Germany, NATO was formed as defence against nazi and communist force.  It wasn't expected that a Russian army would combine both of those and invade a country aligned with Europe.


It's Churchill's fault -
he should never have trusted the Russians - they are bad people -
it's in their genes.


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chimera
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #922 - Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:13pm
 
He gave them stuff but didn't trust them. He said he was allied with the Devil.
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tallowood
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #923 - Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:14pm
 
chimera wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:03pm:
When Stalin's jackboots ruled East Germany, NATO was formed as defence against nazi and communist force.  It wasn't expected that a Russian army would combine both of those and invade a country aligned with Europe.


NATO on the march  Grin

...
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Bobby.
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #924 - Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:17pm
 
chimera wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:13pm:
He gave them stuff but didn't trust them.
He said he was allied with the Devil.



He even gave them plenty of the sacred Spitfires -
the only plane that could shoot down the nasty BF-109.

He gave Russia too much.
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tallowood
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #925 - Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:19pm
 
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 2:57pm:
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 2:19pm:
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 1:54pm:
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 12:18pm:
Ukraine's Strategic Waste: A Western Military Analyst's View of the Strategic Situation That Formed During the War

Quote:
Understanding the lofty extent of Ukraine’s framework for victory, we can articulate several different “theories of victory” that Ukraine has pursued.
I am labelling them as follows:

The Short War Theory
The Crimean Isolation Plan
The Attritional Theory
The Counter-Pressure Theory



The problem for Ukraine is that, thus far at least, all of their overarching strategic visions have failed - not only in their own particular terms on the ground, but also in their connection to “victory” as such. A concrete example might be useful. Ukraine’s offensive in the Kursk region has failed on the ground (more details on this later) with the advance jammed up by Russian defenses early and now steadily rolled back with heavy losses. But the offensive also fails conceptually: attacking and holding Russian territory in Kursk has made Moscow more intransigent and unwilling to negotiate, and it has failed to meaningfully move the needle on NATO backing for Ukraine.


And this is Ukraine’s problem. It seeks the return of all its 1991 territories, including those that Russia now controls and administers, many of which are far beyond Ukraine’s realistic military reach. It is utterly inconceivable, for example, to contemplate Ukraine recapturing Donetsk with a ground operation. Donetsk is a vast industrial city of nearly a million residents, ensconced far behind Russian frontlines and fully integrated into Russia’s logistical chains. Yet the recapture of Donetsk is an explicit Ukrainian war aim.


We end up with a picture where Ukraine’s overarching strategic concept would appear to be pulling in two directions. Verbally, Zelensky has tied the prospects for negotiations to a de-escalation of the war on Russia’s part (while excluding categorically any negotiations relevant to Russia’s own war aims), but Ukraine’s own actions - attempting to double down on both long range strikes and a ground incursion into Russia - are escalatory, as are the various demands made of NATO in the peace plan. There’s a certain measure of strategic schizophrenia here, which all stems from the fact that Ukraine’s own concept of victory is far beyond its military means.


Ukraine stands today as a stark example of strategic dissipation. Having opted to eschew anything less than the most maximalist sort of victory - full re-attainment of the 1991 borders, NATO membership, and the total defeat of Russia - it now proceeds full speed ahead, with a material base and a gloomy picture on the ground that is utterly unmoored from its own conception of victory. The “victory plan”, such as it exists, is little more than a plea for rescue. It is a country trapped by the two myths that animate its being - on the one hand, the notion of total western military supremacy, and on the other the theory of Russia as a giant with feet of clay, primed to collapse internally from the strain of a war that it is winning.
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chimera
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #926 - Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:30pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:17pm:
He even gave them plenty of the sacred Spitfires -
.

This was after Russia supplied the fuel for the bombing of London in 1940. Because Russia is a nazi state, it presumes that the West is also. Then nazi warfare is justified....
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tallowood
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #927 - Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:31pm
 
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:19pm:
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 2:57pm:
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 2:19pm:
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 1:54pm:
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 12:18pm:
Ukraine's Strategic Waste: A Western Military Analyst's View of the Strategic Situation That Formed During the War

Quote:
Understanding the lofty extent of Ukraine’s framework for victory, we can articulate several different “theories of victory” that Ukraine has pursued.
I am labelling them as follows:

The Short War Theory
The Crimean Isolation Plan
The Attritional Theory
The Counter-Pressure Theory



The problem for Ukraine is that, thus far at least, all of their overarching strategic visions have failed - not only in their own particular terms on the ground, but also in their connection to “victory” as such. A concrete example might be useful. Ukraine’s offensive in the Kursk region has failed on the ground (more details on this later) with the advance jammed up by Russian defenses early and now steadily rolled back with heavy losses. But the offensive also fails conceptually: attacking and holding Russian territory in Kursk has made Moscow more intransigent and unwilling to negotiate, and it has failed to meaningfully move the needle on NATO backing for Ukraine.


And this is Ukraine’s problem. It seeks the return of all its 1991 territories, including those that Russia now controls and administers, many of which are far beyond Ukraine’s realistic military reach. It is utterly inconceivable, for example, to contemplate Ukraine recapturing Donetsk with a ground operation. Donetsk is a vast industrial city of nearly a million residents, ensconced far behind Russian frontlines and fully integrated into Russia’s logistical chains. Yet the recapture of Donetsk is an explicit Ukrainian war aim.


We end up with a picture where Ukraine’s overarching strategic concept would appear to be pulling in two directions. Verbally, Zelensky has tied the prospects for negotiations to a de-escalation of the war on Russia’s part (while excluding categorically any negotiations relevant to Russia’s own war aims), but Ukraine’s own actions - attempting to double down on both long range strikes and a ground incursion into Russia - are escalatory, as are the various demands made of NATO in the peace plan. There’s a certain measure of strategic schizophrenia here, which all stems from the fact that Ukraine’s own concept of victory is far beyond its military means.


Ukraine stands today as a stark example of strategic dissipation. Having opted to eschew anything less than the most maximalist sort of victory - full re-attainment of the 1991 borders, NATO membership, and the total defeat of Russia - it now proceeds full speed ahead, with a material base and a gloomy picture on the ground that is utterly unmoored from its own conception of victory. The “victory plan”, such as it exists, is little more than a plea for rescue. It is a country trapped by the two myths that animate its being - on the one hand, the notion of total western military supremacy, and on the other the theory of Russia as a giant with feet of clay, primed to collapse internally from the strain of a war that it is winning.


On the ground, 2024 has been a year of largely unmitigated Russian victories. In the spring, the front transitioned to a new operational phase following Russia’s capture of Avdiivka, which - as I argued at the time - left Ukrainian forces with no obvious places where they could anchor their next line of defense. Russian forces have continued to advance in the southern Donbas largely unabated, and the entire southeastern corner of the front is now buckling under an ongoing Russian offensive.
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tallowood
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #928 - Nov 4th, 2024 at 4:06pm
 
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:31pm:
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:19pm:
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 2:57pm:
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 2:19pm:
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 1:54pm:
tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 12:18pm:
Ukraine's Strategic Waste: A Western Military Analyst's View of the Strategic Situation That Formed During the War

Quote:
Understanding the lofty extent of Ukraine’s framework for victory, we can articulate several different “theories of victory” that Ukraine has pursued.
I am labelling them as follows:

The Short War Theory
The Crimean Isolation Plan
The Attritional Theory
The Counter-Pressure Theory



The problem for Ukraine is that, thus far at least, all of their overarching strategic visions have failed - not only in their own particular terms on the ground, but also in their connection to “victory” as such. A concrete example might be useful. Ukraine’s offensive in the Kursk region has failed on the ground (more details on this later) with the advance jammed up by Russian defenses early and now steadily rolled back with heavy losses. But the offensive also fails conceptually: attacking and holding Russian territory in Kursk has made Moscow more intransigent and unwilling to negotiate, and it has failed to meaningfully move the needle on NATO backing for Ukraine.


And this is Ukraine’s problem. It seeks the return of all its 1991 territories, including those that Russia now controls and administers, many of which are far beyond Ukraine’s realistic military reach. It is utterly inconceivable, for example, to contemplate Ukraine recapturing Donetsk with a ground operation. Donetsk is a vast industrial city of nearly a million residents, ensconced far behind Russian frontlines and fully integrated into Russia’s logistical chains. Yet the recapture of Donetsk is an explicit Ukrainian war aim.


We end up with a picture where Ukraine’s overarching strategic concept would appear to be pulling in two directions. Verbally, Zelensky has tied the prospects for negotiations to a de-escalation of the war on Russia’s part (while excluding categorically any negotiations relevant to Russia’s own war aims), but Ukraine’s own actions - attempting to double down on both long range strikes and a ground incursion into Russia - are escalatory, as are the various demands made of NATO in the peace plan. There’s a certain measure of strategic schizophrenia here, which all stems from the fact that Ukraine’s own concept of victory is far beyond its military means.


Ukraine stands today as a stark example of strategic dissipation. Having opted to eschew anything less than the most maximalist sort of victory - full re-attainment of the 1991 borders, NATO membership, and the total defeat of Russia - it now proceeds full speed ahead, with a material base and a gloomy picture on the ground that is utterly unmoored from its own conception of victory. The “victory plan”, such as it exists, is little more than a plea for rescue. It is a country trapped by the two myths that animate its being - on the one hand, the notion of total western military supremacy, and on the other the theory of Russia as a giant with feet of clay, primed to collapse internally from the strain of a war that it is winning.


On the ground, 2024 has been a year of largely unmitigated Russian victories. In the spring, the front transitioned to a new operational phase following Russia’s capture of Avdiivka, which - as I argued at the time - left Ukrainian forces with no obvious places where they could anchor their next line of defense. Russian forces have continued to advance in the southern Donbas largely unabated, and the entire southeastern corner of the front is now buckling under an ongoing Russian offensive.


A brief look at the state of the front reveals the dire state of the AFU’s defenses. Ukrainian lines in the southeast were based on a series of well-defended urban fortresses in a change, running from Ugledar on the southernmost end, to Krasnogorivka (which defended the approach to the Vovcha Reservoir, to Avdiivka (blocking the main line out of Donetsk to the northwest), all the way up to the Toretsk-Niu York agglomeration. The AFU lost the former three at various points in 2024 and are currently holding on to perhaps 50% of Toretsk. The loss of these fortress has unhinged the Ukrainian defense across nearly 100 kilometers of front, and subsequent efforts to stabilize the line have been stymied by a lack of adequate rear defenses, inadequate reserves, and Ukraine’s own decision to funnel many of its best mechanized formations into Kursk. As a consequence, Russia has advanced steadily towards Pokrovsk, carving out a salient some 80 kilometers in circumference.
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tallowood
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #929 - Nov 4th, 2024 at 4:50pm
 
chimera wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:30pm:
Bobby. wrote on Nov 4th, 2024 at 3:17pm:
He even gave them plenty of the sacred Spitfires -
.

This was after Russia supplied the fuel for the bombing of London in 1940. Because Russia is a nazi state, it presumes that the West is also. Then nazi warfare is justified....


AHAHAHA

...
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