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Sovereign Citizens (Read 3258 times)
chimera
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Re: Sovereign Citizens
Reply #75 - Jun 11th, 2024 at 1:42pm
 
Thegreatdivide says she's against sov cits but has the same mind-bending word twists. And they both seem to repeat nonsense endlessly to make it factual.  She's invented a new sov cit theory about gun rights, which makes me suspicious.  Mao said power comes from guns, 1927.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Sovereign Citizens
Reply #76 - Jun 12th, 2024 at 11:57am
 
Belgarion wrote on Jun 11th, 2024 at 1:11pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 3rd, 2024 at 6:19pm:
Well - they do have a point - as much point as the Secessionist States seceding from the Union.... a Union entered into voluntarily can be broken...... and one entered into by one side involuntarily from birth is open to discussion at the very least......


Actually it can't. The Australian Constitution was written at a time the American Civil war was within the living memory of those involved in its writing and the preamble contains the words "...one Indissoluble Federal Commonwealth..."  to make perfectly clear that once a colony joined it was permanent with no legal option to leave.  This was probably one reason new Zealand opted to remain apart.

As for these 'sovereign citizens' the best way to deal with them is to give them what they want. Total separation from political and civil involvement. Of course this means that as they are not citizens they cannot access our welfare, education or healthcare services, have no call on our police and emergency services, cannot drive on our roads etc....they can be non citizens and enjoy all the perks that comes with it Grin 



Good post.....but  poor old graps  will likely be content to say "you have made no argument", and disappear back into his sovereign citizen, 'voluntary agreement'  fantasy. 
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chimera
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Re: Sovereign Citizens
Reply #77 - Jun 12th, 2024 at 5:16pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11th, 2024 at 12:22pm:
The original US constitution (see the preamble)  was created by "We the Citizens" .

That's sovereignty. When the elected term in office expires, who has sovereignty? The government needs to be created anew by citizens. (can you work out the difference between them and 'sovereign citizens'?)

chimera : 'However, China's government repeats nonsense to make it more factual. 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11th, 2024 at 12:22pm:
Show us some  '"nonsense repeated by the Chinese government", (for whatever reason). 

Its fishermen went to sea and own it as far as Borneo. China owns it. China owns it.
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chimera
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Re: Sovereign Citizens
Reply #78 - Jun 12th, 2024 at 6:59pm
 
'The dissolution of Parliament took place on Thursday 30 May 2024. All business in the House of Commons and House of Lords has come to an end. There are currently no MPs and every seat in the Commons is vacant until after the general election on 4 July 2024.'
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Re: Sovereign Citizens
Reply #79 - Jun 12th, 2024 at 8:21pm
 
chimera wrote on Jun 12th, 2024 at 5:16pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11th, 2024 at 12:22pm:
The original US constitution (see the preamble)  was created by "We the Citizens" .

That's sovereignty. When the elected term in office expires, who has sovereignty? The government needs to be created anew by citizens. (can you work out the difference between them and 'sovereign citizens'?)

chimera : 'However, China's government repeats nonsense to make it more factual. 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11th, 2024 at 12:22pm:
Show us some  '"nonsense repeated by the Chinese government", (for whatever reason). 

Its fishermen went to sea and own it as far as Borneo. China owns it. China owns it.


Our city is sacked. May you know it! May you know it!”
Ugarit circa 1200BC.
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chimera
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Re: Sovereign Citizens
Reply #80 - Jun 12th, 2024 at 8:49pm
 
That's what happens when sovereign fishermen with guns draw maps of democracy.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Sovereign Citizens
Reply #81 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 12:13pm
 
chimera wrote on Jun 11th, 2024 at 1:42pm:
Thegreatdivide says she's against sov cits but has the same mind-bending word twists. And they both seem to repeat nonsense endlessly to make it factual.  .


'Sovereign citizens' don't regard the concept as "mind bending",  though they are equally as delusional as you re the sovereignty of governments.

Quote:
She's invented a new sov cit theory about gun rights, which makes me suspicious.  Mao said power comes from guns, 1927


Your low IQ confirmed: in 1927, Mao was working to  establish government for the prosperity of the Chinese nation which at the time was ravaged by the absolute poverty of over 90% of the population - not to maintain the prosperity of neanderthal, self-interested "freedom or death" individuals who refuse to submit to rule of law.



   
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chimera
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Re: Sovereign Citizens
Reply #82 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 12:26pm
 
More self contradiction. You say sov cits are delusional but argue for their logical concept. (Their subjective view is irrelevant to my objectively describing their word twists).

Mao said that about guns in 1927. Your comment on poverty is irrelevant. = Today is not Thursday due to cold temperatures. Is this lunatic mind-set a product of Chinese education systems?
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Sovereign Citizens
Reply #83 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 12:50pm
 
chimera wrote on Jun 12th, 2024 at 5:16pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11th, 2024 at 12:22pm:
The original US constitution (see the preamble)  was created by "We the Citizens" .


That's sovereignty.
 

Exactly: "we the citizens come together to create the sovereign government of the US... for the common welfare... "

Quote:
When the elected term in office expires, who has sovereignty?


(...proving there ARE such things as dumb questions...):

The care-taker government, until the election results are confirmed.

Quote:
The government needs to be created anew by citizens. (can you work out the difference between them and 'sovereign citizens'?)


Your error: you are confusing the processes/machinery of sovereign government with the citizens who choose the particular governing party (determined by majority vote in the case of multi-party democracies). 

Sovereignty resides in government, not in the disparate citizens and particular parties which can be turfed out at the next election.

Hence the rest of your post is GIGO....except your final observation, namely:

"China's fishermen  fishermen went to sea and own it as far as Borneo. China owns it."

Again, your fallacy of composition: some, not all of China's "fishermen", claimed sovereignty of the SCS for China, not for their "sovereign"(sic) selves.

Indeed nations claimed sovereignty according to historical adventures and circumstances

But that belongs to pre 1946 history when "might is right" ruled the waves (hence "Britannia rules the waves"...before it no longer did).

Hence the need for an international rules-based order, to avoid endless wars.   

See the blind "freedom or death" chimera twisting and turning.....








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« Last Edit: Jun 13th, 2024 at 12:56pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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chimera
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Re: Sovereign Citizens
Reply #84 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 2:25pm
 
The contradictions are too large to be operated on and you may be in terminal decline.  Or we could make a great divide and amputate 1/2 your brain. Up to you.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Sovereign Citizens
Reply #85 - Jun 14th, 2024 at 11:56am
 
chimera wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 2:25pm:
The contradictions are too large to be operated on and you may be in terminal decline.  Or we could make a great divide and amputate 1/2 your brain. Up to you.


So here we have it: we see how the reptilian brain cripples the cortex brain: chimera can't even acknowledge the answer to his dumb question "When the elected term in office expires, who has sovereignty?"

The reptilian brain in all its blind, primitive force, lately displayed by Netanyahu when he accuses the UN of being "evil".

The human condition...and the child slaughtering goes on.
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chimera
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Re: Sovereign Citizens
Reply #86 - Jun 14th, 2024 at 12:02pm
 
Your answer is wrong in fact. Wrong in concept. Made in China.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Sovereign Citizens
Reply #87 - Jun 14th, 2024 at 12:06pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12th, 2024 at 11:57am:
Belgarion wrote on Jun 11th, 2024 at 1:11pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 3rd, 2024 at 6:19pm:
Well - they do have a point - as much point as the Secessionist States seceding from the Union.... a Union entered into voluntarily can be broken...... and one entered into by one side involuntarily from birth is open to discussion at the very least......


Actually it can't. The Australian Constitution was written at a time the American Civil war was within the living memory of those involved in its writing and the preamble contains the words "...one Indissoluble Federal Commonwealth..."  to make perfectly clear that once a colony joined it was permanent with no legal option to leave.  This was probably one reason new Zealand opted to remain apart.

As for these 'sovereign citizens' the best way to deal with them is to give them what they want. Total separation from political and civil involvement. Of course this means that as they are not citizens they cannot access our welfare, education or healthcare services, have no call on our police and emergency services, cannot drive on our roads etc....they can be non citizens and enjoy all the perks that comes with it Grin 



Good post.....but  poor old graps  will likely be content to say "you have made no argument", and disappear back into his sovereign citizen, 'voluntary agreement'  fantasy. 



You have made no argument - a union entered into voluntarily may be broken at the will of a party.  If I join a club I can resign from it  - if I join a political party - I can quit.

At least you agree that OUR self-proclaimed 'sovereign citizens' who say they are not part of Australia should be given their own separate space, as a courtesy and a nod to their having been the First Invaders.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Sovereign Citizens
Reply #88 - Jun 15th, 2024 at 11:49am
 
chimera wrote on Jun 14th, 2024 at 12:02pm:
Your answer is wrong in fact. Wrong in concept. Made in China.


"The care-taker government, until the election results are confirmed."


You forgot to say why that is "wrong in fact".

Low IQ?





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chimera
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Re: Sovereign Citizens
Reply #89 - Jun 15th, 2024 at 12:08pm
 
It's wrong because it came from your anti-democratic CCP mind-twist. And your self-contradicting dogma, based on insults.
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