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Poll Poll
Question: Are you supportive of Nuclear power in Australia?

Yes    
  13 (50.0%)
No    
  10 (38.5%)
Undecided    
  3 (11.5%)




Total votes: 26
« Created by: Captain Nemo on: Jun 20th, 2024 at 10:45pm »

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Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants (Read 10833 times)
greggerypeccary
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #135 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 8:43am
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 7:04am:
The Poll question isn't great.

You can support Nuclear energy but not the current Coalition policy.

It has a place in any carbon focused energy policy in general.  Is it suitable for Australia?

Costs and the abundance of alternatives would say no, especially given the big lead time for their plant construction.

But it is a gamble.  We're betting that in the time it would take to bring these plants online, we've have viable mass energy storage for renewables.

But back to Dutton's plan, it was designed first with the goal of using more Coal and Gas as demanded by their mining industry benefactors and worked backwards from there.

It's not an energy policy, it's a mining policy.

And you know they'll propose "cutting red tape" for the mining industry once we get close to the election.

More Coal means fewer renewables, but they have to pretend to care about climate change otherwise they'll never win back the teal votes.

So how can they attack renewables, champion coal and gas and pretend to care about emissions?

Nuclear.

They are not serious about actually delivering Nuclear energy.  They've done no projections for future energy demand or generation as part of this plan, or at least they're hiding that detail.

This is just a stalling tactic to hurt renewable energy growth in order to keep the like of Gina happy.

We all keep glossing right over this and pretending this is a genuine policy and debate the finer details of the implementation.

We know the Coalition don't take climate change seriously.  All we have to do is look at the line pushed by SkyNews and what their supporters say.

It's not a secret.

All the notions of meeting targets and reducing emissions, they don't care, it's all bullshit.

All they want is to lie to us to get back into power, then they'll ditch the plan or change their mind.


Yes, you've nailed it.

And we thought Abbott was the worst they could offer.

How wrong we were.
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Bobby.
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #136 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 9:42am
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 7:21am:
SK,
Quote:
All they want is to lie to us to get back into power,
then they'll ditch the plan or change their mind.


You are a very cynical person.

With the huge amount of coal and gas in Australia we should have cheap and plentiful energy.
In Victoria they are talking about the possibility of running out of gas this winter.
I have gas hot water heating and gas heating and gas for cooking.
I'm worried - this has happened under the incompetent Labor Govt.
- another result of the legacy of Dirty Dan.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-20/aemo-warns-of-immediate-gas-shortage-risk...




Further to that -

I think we do need some nuclear power stations and
we need to learn how to make our own fuel rods.
We could then sell spare fuel rods on the world market.
At the moment we only sell Yellowcake.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowcake

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Frank
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #137 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 9:58am
 
Frank wrote on Jun 20th, 2024 at 6:03pm:
Australia’s Energy Production, Consumption and Exports

Australia has an estimated 46 per cent of uranium resources, 6 per cent of coal resources, and 2 per cent of natural gas resources in the world. In contrast, Australia has only about 0.3 per cent of world oil reserves.
Australia produces about 2.4 per cent of total world energy and is a major supplier of energy to world markets, exporting more than three-quarters of its energy output, worth nearly A$80 billion.
Australia is the world’s largest exporter of coal. Coal accounts for more than half of Australia’s energy exports. Australia is one of the world’s largest exporters of uranium, and is ranked sixth in terms of liquefied natural gas (LNG) exports. In contrast, more than half of Australia’s liquid fuel needs are imported.
Australia is the world’s twentieth largest consumer of energy, and fifteenth in terms of per capita energy use.
Australia’s primary energy consumption is dominated by coal (around 40 per cent), oil (34 per cent) and gas (22 per cent). Coal accounts for about 75 per cent of Australia’s electricity generation, followed by gas (16 per cent), hydro (5 per cent) and wind around (2 per cent).

https://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/energy/overview




Australia has been plunged into a fresh energy crisis amid warnings of gas shortages along the eastern seaboard after supply disruptions and a winter cold snap triggered a run on reserves, raising fears of manufacturing shutdowns if ­supplies are curtailed.

As revealed by The Australian, an emergency phone hook-up was convened on Thursday, with the national energy market operator telling gas companies the southern states were now dependent on supplies being sent from Queensland for the rest of winter.

The meeting was held after a “threat notice” was sent to the gas industry, warning that the market had tightened substantially amid supply disruptions from a major source in Victoria that had caused a depletion of ­reserves.


Australian Pipelines and Gas Association chief executive Steve Davies said: “For half a decade, ­industry has been warning about looming gas supply shortfalls. ­Little has been done to remedy it. The opposite has occurred, and businesses are being asked to pay the price.”

Mr Davies said poor generation from large-scale renewables had also exacerbated the supply crisis.

The extreme lows in renewable generation, particularly wind yields, have meant gas-powered generation has picked up a significantly larger load to keep the lights on and ensure electric homes can remain heated,” he said.



The market operator warned in March that gas generators might be forced to burn diesel to keep the power grid running after authorities revealed states faced a ­catastrophic ­supply shortfall from next year unless new sources of supply were developed.

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philperth2010
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #138 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 10:37am
 
Frank wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 9:58am:
Frank wrote on Jun 20th, 2024 at 6:03pm:
Australia’s Energy Production, Consumption and Exports

Australia has an estimated 46 per cent of uranium resources, 6 per cent of coal resources, and 2 per cent of natural gas resources in the world. In contrast, Australia has only about 0.3 per cent of world oil reserves.
Australia produces about 2.4 per cent of total world energy and is a major supplier of energy to world markets, exporting more than three-quarters of its energy output, worth nearly A$80 billion.
Australia is the world’s largest exporter of coal. Coal accounts for more than half of Australia’s energy exports. Australia is one of the world’s largest exporters of uranium, and is ranked sixth in terms of liquefied natural gas (LNG) exports. In contrast, more than half of Australia’s liquid fuel needs are imported.
Australia is the world’s twentieth largest consumer of energy, and fifteenth in terms of per capita energy use.
Australia’s primary energy consumption is dominated by coal (around 40 per cent), oil (34 per cent) and gas (22 per cent). Coal accounts for about 75 per cent of Australia’s electricity generation, followed by gas (16 per cent), hydro (5 per cent) and wind around (2 per cent).

https://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/energy/overview




Australia has been plunged into a fresh energy crisis amid warnings of gas shortages along the eastern seaboard after supply disruptions and a winter cold snap triggered a run on reserves, raising fears of manufacturing shutdowns if ­supplies are curtailed.

As revealed by The Australian, an emergency phone hook-up was convened on Thursday, with the national energy market operator telling gas companies the southern states were now dependent on supplies being sent from Queensland for the rest of winter.

The meeting was held after a “threat notice” was sent to the gas industry, warning that the market had tightened substantially amid supply disruptions from a major source in Victoria that had caused a depletion of ­reserves.


Australian Pipelines and Gas Association chief executive Steve Davies said: “For half a decade, ­industry has been warning about looming gas supply shortfalls. ­Little has been done to remedy it. The opposite has occurred, and businesses are being asked to pay the price.”

Mr Davies said poor generation from large-scale renewables had also exacerbated the supply crisis.

The extreme lows in renewable generation, particularly wind yields, have meant gas-powered generation has picked up a significantly larger load to keep the lights on and ensure electric homes can remain heated,” he said.



The market operator warned in March that gas generators might be forced to burn diesel to keep the power grid running after authorities revealed states faced a ­catastrophic ­supply shortfall from next year unless new sources of supply were developed.



So a shortage of gas and a major gas plant undergoing maintenance is being blamed on renewables by the Gas companies who sell the bulk of our Eastern States gas for huge profits overseas....Burning diesel is only required because of a gas shortage....Whilst renewables are partly to blame a lack of gas supply is the main problem which the Australian ignored in it's bullshit rant by gas company executives who ignored the gas shortfall for profit!!!

Quote:
AEMO warns of immediate gas shortfall threat as cold snap, renewable lulls and outages bite

The warning was sparked by a spike in gas demand following a cold spell, a lack of renewable power in recent weeks and an outage at the Longford gas plant in Victoria – the biggest source of gas in southern Australia.

Combined, the shocks to the system have led to a run on Victoria's most biggest and most important gas storage facility at Iona, about 230km south-west of Melbourne.

They have also sent the gas market skywards, with prices trading at almost $30 a gigajoule today – levels last seen during the energy crisis two years ago.

AEMO said the disruptions were of a "nature and magnitude" significant enough to threaten gas shortfalls on days of peak demand for the next three months or more.


Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-20/aemo-warns-of-immediate-gas-shortage-risk...
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Setanta
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #139 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 11:24am
 
Quote:
June 18 (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate on Tuesday passed a bill to accelerate the deployment of nuclear energy capacity, including by speeding permitting and creating new incentives for advanced nuclear reactor technologies.
Expanding nuclear power has broad bipartisan support, with Democrats seeing it as critical to decarbonizing the power sector to fight climate change and Republicans viewing it as a way to ensure reliable electricity supply and create jobs.
A version of the bill had already passed in the House of Representatives and it will now go to President Joe Biden for a signature to become law. It passed the Senate 88-2 votes, opens new tab.
“In a major victory for our climate and American energy security, the U.S. Senate has passed the ADVANCE Act with overwhelming, bipartisan support,” said Senator Tom Carper, a Democrat, who is Chairman of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-senate-passes-bill-support-advanced-n...
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UnSubRocky
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #140 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 11:33am
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 4:59am:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 1:50am:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 20th, 2024 at 1:42pm:
my son the sparkie tells me plugging in your car at night to recharge draws TWICE the amps of the rest of your house combined.


Depending on the quality of the electric car, the cost of regular usage of an electric car would be anywhere between $100 and $200 a month. If you can afford $50/wk to charge your car, you should do okay for the next 15 years with your car until the battery needs replacing. By then, you would be getting a different electric car. Hopefully, by then, electricity prices would fall relative to what they are today.




but rocky , most people will need to charge at night

when renewables dont work  Cry Cry Cry Cry


That is why I am saying that it would cost money to run the electric car through recharging. People with solar panels on their roofs would only get some benefit of power saving if they are charging their cars during the day. For me, I usually drive my car in the afternoon and night. If I had solar panels on my roof, I would probably do okay with saving on electricity.
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SadKangaroo
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #141 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 12:13pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 7:21am:
SK,
Quote:
All they want is to lie to us to get back into power,
then they'll ditch the plan or change their mind.


You are a very cynical person.


I'm a realist.

Quote:
With the huge amount of coal and gas in Australia we should have cheap and plentiful energy.
In Victoria they are talking about the possibility of running out of gas this winter.
I have gas hot water heating and gas heating and gas for cooking.
I'm worried - this has happened under the incompetent Labor Govt.
- another result of the legacy of Dirty Dan.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-20/aemo-warns-of-immediate-gas-shortage-risk...



Firstly, Howard and Abbott sold us out with their LNG export agreements, not Andrews.

Yes, Andrews and other state bans on fracking and onshore gas exploration didn't help, but the federal export agreements that are locked in are the things most impacting supply AND the low prices they get which is forcing higher domestic costs.

And you want to hand our energy security back to the people who did this to us, when they've made it abundantly clear they don't believe or care about climate change, much to the applause of their supporters, and you want to believe that is their motivation behind Nuclear?

Please.
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #142 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 1:16pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 11:33am:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 4:59am:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 1:50am:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 20th, 2024 at 1:42pm:
my son the sparkie tells me plugging in your car at night to recharge draws TWICE the amps of the rest of your house combined.


Depending on the quality of the electric car, the cost of regular usage of an electric car would be anywhere between $100 and $200 a month. If you can afford $50/wk to charge your car, you should do okay for the next 15 years with your car until the battery needs replacing. By then, you would be getting a different electric car. Hopefully, by then, electricity prices would fall relative to what they are today.




but rocky , most people will need to charge at night

when renewables dont work  Cry Cry Cry Cry


That is why I am saying that it would cost money to run the electric car through recharging. People with solar panels on their roofs would only get some benefit of power saving if they are charging their cars during the day. For me, I usually drive my car in the afternoon and night. If I had solar panels on my roof, I would probably do okay with saving on electricity.


I've been told it costs about $2 worth of electricity to get the equivalent of a full tank of fuel.
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #143 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 1:45pm
 
Setanta wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 11:24am:
Quote:
June 18 (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate on Tuesday passed a bill to accelerate the deployment of nuclear energy capacity, including by speeding permitting and creating new incentives for advanced nuclear reactor technologies.
Expanding nuclear power has broad bipartisan support, with Democrats seeing it as critical to decarbonizing the power sector to fight climate change and Republicans viewing it as a way to ensure reliable electricity supply and create jobs.
A version of the bill had already passed in the House of Representatives and it will now go to President Joe Biden for a signature to become law. It passed the Senate 88-2 votes, opens new tab.
“In a major victory for our climate and American energy security, the U.S. Senate has passed the ADVANCE Act with overwhelming, bipartisan support,” said Senator Tom Carper, a Democrat, who is Chairman of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-senate-passes-bill-support-advanced-n...


Yes, a good move - as part of exiting fossils ASAP,  and rolling out renewables as fast as possible.

Meanwhile in China:

https://world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/Control-room-commissioned-at-Chinese-SMR

First concrete for the ACP100 was poured on 13 July 2021, with a planned total construction period of 58 months. Equipment installation work commenced in December 2022 and the main internal structure of the reactor building was completed in March 2023.

Under development since 2010, the 125 MWe ACP100 integrated PWR's preliminary design was completed in 2014. In 2016, the design became the first SMR to pass a safety review by the International Atomic Energy Agency.



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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #144 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 2:19pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 1:44am:
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 20th, 2024 at 1:16pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 20th, 2024 at 1:16am:
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 19th, 2024 at 10:06pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 19th, 2024 at 9:36pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 19th, 2024 at 5:59pm:


Such as... reducing carbon emissions.


No, of building and operating a nuclear reactor. Unsub.  Are you really that stupid? I forget, you're from Queensland, aren't you?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Queenslanders have greater reputations for intelligence than that of some woke Westralian who virtue signals any left-wing agenda.

It will be quite an expense in building and operating a nuclear reactor. But the benefits of no longer having large quantities of carbon emissions from coal-fired power stations would far outweigh the initial costs.


Renewables achieve that without the cost or the need for long-lasting waste.  Queenslanders seem fixated on the high-tech answer to the problem. Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


I have nothing against using renewable energy such as solar and wind power. Perhaps there should be more focus on having wave energy from around our vast shoreline produce some energy.

There is no issue with having nuclear power plants built, no matter the initial price tag in constructing them. Carbon free electricity. High electricity output. What is your solution? Put thousands of square kilometres of solar panels out in the desert?


And why not, Unsub?  It would be a useful job for empty land...  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #145 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 3:41pm
 
Wave and tidal and geothermal sources of energy have hardly been touched.

Graziers would get another source of income and improved productivity by having solar panels installed on their paddocks.
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #146 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 3:42pm
 
But nuclear, a non–carbon source of energy can underpin the renewables.

Dutton isn’t being honest, of course, I doubt 1 small reactor could be built before 2050 at the best.
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #147 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 12:02am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 3:42pm:
But nuclear, a non–carbon source of energy can underpin the renewables.

Dutton isn’t being honest, of course, I doubt 1 small reactor could be built before 2050 at the best.


Quote:
can underpin the renewables.


And you save a lot in lighting as soon as you start glowing in the dark.
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #148 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 8:14am
 
Quote:
And you save a lot in lighting as soon as you start glowing in the dark.


that doesn't happen stop posting this b.s
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #149 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 10:20am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 3:42pm:
But nuclear, a non–carbon source of energy can underpin the renewables.

Dutton isn’t being honest, of course, I doubt 1 small reactor could be built before 2050 at the best.


Plus he's pushing Nuclear to hurt renewables push more coal and gas.

That's the point remember.

I doubt when they ever win office again they will push ahead with the plan to build nuclear, they'll focus on "the now" given the lead time from decision to go Nuclear to the first plan coming online and push gas or coal instead.

They'll do whatever they can to hurt funding, investment and innovation in renewables so their cost don't keep reducing and their local implementation of energy storage doesn't improve so eventually the cost claims of Nuclear against a then artificially inflated cost of renewables will justify their push to Nuclear, while again continuing to push coal and gas for the then, "today's needs".

There is no other explanation that fits their mining lobby-dictated stance against climate change, carbon targets and energy policy.

They haven't even compared the generation capacity for their 7 plants to the needs in 30-35 years when the first plan would realistically come online.

In terms of the Coalition, Nuclear = Coal & Gas.

It's that simple.
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