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Poll Poll
Question: Are you supportive of Nuclear power in Australia?

Yes    
  13 (50.0%)
No    
  10 (38.5%)
Undecided    
  3 (11.5%)




Total votes: 26
« Created by: Captain Nemo on: Jun 20th, 2024 at 10:45pm »

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Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants (Read 10826 times)
JC Denton
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #150 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 10:51am
 
itll take 20+ yrs to finish these they wont even be in office that long
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Frank
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #151 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 12:03pm
 
Victoria will soon suffer a gas shortfall that forces authorities to choose between an economic ­catastrophe or cutting heating to homes, risking the welfare of elderly Australians, one of the country’s largest gas users has warned.

Brickworks chief executive Lindsay Partridge said the gas crisis had become dire and could have been averted.

“It is not if but when. This situation could have been avoided but we are in a position where Victoria will have to choose between keeping businesses going or providing heat to homes. If they cut us off, it would take us two weeks to restart operations, but if they cut heating off – old people will die,” Mr Partridge said.

The warning from the nation’s largest brickmaker came as one of the main suppliers of gas to the east coast prioritised supplies to Victoria to help the state avoid a supply crunch.

The Australian Energy Market Operator and the country’s gas industry is scrambling to relieve pressure on the east coast market, and sources say energy giant ­ExxonMobil is now front-loading gas supplies to Victoria.

The process, known as sculpting, involves the Longford facility prioritising gas flows into Melbourne during the morning before catching up with higher flows to Sydney overnight.
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #152 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 12:03pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 1:16pm:
I've been told it costs about $2 worth of electricity to get the equivalent of a full tank of fuel.


I doubt that.
Do the maths.

Let's say electricity costs 30 cents per kilowatt hour.
$2.00/ 0.30 = 6.7 KW for one hour.

6.7 KW would drive a car for about one hour if it was just cruising.
A tank of fuel would go for 6 hours or more.

A car that accelerates hard would use 100KW  or more.

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Frank
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #153 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 12:06pm
 
Neither is it necessary to replace all existing coal generation with nuclear to get a result.

“You don’t need to be 50 or 60 per cent nuclear,” Shirvan says. “Even 15 per cent nuclear for reli­able baseload does reduce the amount of renewable generation and storage, so in aggregate it is a good (financial) deal for the taxpayers.”


Dutton has taken a brave political gamble that voters will absorb the energy policy details. One point that favours him is that support for nuclear in the US is highest in places near existing nuclear facilities. “These are people who have been living near nuclear plants and they feel comfortable and either their family or neighbours are working at the sites and they see the economic benefit and well-paid jobs,” Shirvan says.

Politically, support for nuclear is one of the few areas that crosses the US political divide.

“In the US we have got two parties, the Democrats and Republicans, and they tend to disagree on every possible issue under the sun with few exceptions you can count on the fingers of one hand, and one of them is nuclear and they passed legislation together to support the existing fleet, development of new systems and export of technology,” Shirvan says.

Australia is coming late to the nuclear party but the view from abroad is a lot of the political outrage is confected. It’s just that both sides are coming at it from a different angle. The Liberals are saying nuclear energy is the future but Labor is sending out memes of three-headed fish while being 100 per cent behind AUKUS. Practically, it means the same thing. We are developing a skilled workforce and developing Australian expertise in nuclear technology.

As for nuclear power, there is a long way still to run but the options for stable, reliable power into the future are closing fast.

GRAHAM LLOYD  ENVIRONMENT EDITOR
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #154 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 12:16pm
 
JC Denton wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 10:51am:
itll take 20+ yrs to finish these they wont even be in office that long


It'll take 20+ years to start.
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #155 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 1:45pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 12:03pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 1:16pm:
I've been told it costs about $2 worth of electricity to get the equivalent of a full tank of fuel.


I doubt that.
Do the maths.

Let's say electricity costs 30 cents per kilowatt hour.
$2.00/ 0.30 = 6.7 KW for one hour.

6.7 KW would drive a car for about one hour if it was just cruising.
A tank of fuel would go for 6 hours or more.

A car that accelerates hard would use 100KW  or more.



The average EV battery is about 40 kWh. At 30c/kWh, that is still only $12 to fully charge it. If you plug it in overnight to get the off peak power, you will get it for a lot less than 30c/kWh.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #156 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 2:35pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 19th, 2024 at 4:29pm:
MattE wrote on Jun 19th, 2024 at 4:22pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 19th, 2024 at 4:20pm:
Sounds like a good idea but wait -

What if we would have kept our enormous gas reserves for ourselves
instead of giving it away for rock bottom prices to countries overseas?
Would it have been enough to tide us over until
renewables could take their place?



Bowen the zealot doesn't want gas either.

But it's much cleaner than coal and then why is it OK
for other countries to burn our gas?


Because the international price gouging fossil companies (Chevron, Shell et al) who were allowed to develop our gas are seeking maximum profits from overeseas markets.
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Bobby.
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #157 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 4:08pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 1:45pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 12:03pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 1:16pm:
I've been told it costs about $2 worth of electricity to get the equivalent of a full tank of fuel.


I doubt that.
Do the maths.

Let's say electricity costs 30 cents per kilowatt hour.
$2.00/ 0.30 = 6.7 KW for one hour.

6.7 KW would drive a car for about one hour if it was just cruising.
A tank of fuel would go for 6 hours or more.

A car that accelerates hard would use 100KW  or more.



The average EV battery is about 40 kWh. At 30c/kWh, that is still only $12 to fully charge it. If you plug it in overnight to get the off peak power, you will get it for a lot less than 30c/kWh.



So you agree - it's nowhere near $2 to charge up an EV battery?
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freediver
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #158 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 4:57pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 4:08pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 1:45pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 12:03pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 1:16pm:
I've been told it costs about $2 worth of electricity to get the equivalent of a full tank of fuel.


I doubt that.
Do the maths.

Let's say electricity costs 30 cents per kilowatt hour.
$2.00/ 0.30 = 6.7 KW for one hour.

6.7 KW would drive a car for about one hour if it was just cruising.
A tank of fuel would go for 6 hours or more.

A car that accelerates hard would use 100KW  or more.



The average EV battery is about 40 kWh. At 30c/kWh, that is still only $12 to fully charge it. If you plug it in overnight to get the off peak power, you will get it for a lot less than 30c/kWh.



So you agree - it's nowhere near $2 to charge up an EV battery?


That's not what I said Bobby. Do you know what off peak electricity costs?
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #159 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 5:05pm
 
Quote:
Japanese eye investment in Australian nuclear rollout


Jun 21, 2024

Tokyo | Japan’s giant energy trading houses would consider helping to pay for a nuclear rollout in Australia in return for decades-long investment returns, industry insiders say.

The Coalition’s announcement that it would build seven nuclear power plants sparked a flurry of conversations in Tokyo this week around how Japan’s largest power players could become involved.

Investment bankers, trade liaisons and energy company representatives are understood to be quietly costing out how development of a nuclear supply chain in Australia might work, should Peter Dutton’s plan eventuate.

Japan’s own nuclear industry is re-emerging as a core tenet of the island-nation’s energy security strategy alongside renewable energy. These sources are replacing the country’s LNG demand, which has fallen substantially over the last several years.

Energia Group and J-Power are constructing new nuclear reactor plants in north-west and central Japan, while Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kansai Electric Power have recently reopened plants that were shuttered following the Fukushima disaster in 2011.

Mike Newman, former trade commissioner for the NSW government, said Japanese investment houses like Mitsubishi Heavy Industries have investment strategies like Canada’s Brookfield.

“The Japanese have been thinking about [Australian nuclear] for several years,” Mr Newman said

“It’s the kind of investment that aligns with their big picture strategy, and they have plenty of experience building and operating these kinds of assets.”

Mr Newman said Japanese companies would also accept losses in the early part of any deal as well as provide low-cost financing over long time frames, such as 50 years.

South Korea could also be a possible investment partner for any nuclear program in Australia.

In March, Korea Electric Power Corporation, better known as KEPCO, finished building four nuclear energy plants in Barakah in the United Arab Emirates. The $US20 billion project began in 2009, and marked South Korea’s first export of a homegrown atomic power plant.

“Developing nuclear in Australia would certainly pique their interest,” Ross Gregory, partner at New Electric Partners and chairman of AustCham Korea, said. “They’ve got the know-how and the track record.”

China has also developed a profound nuclear development capability. Nuclear accounts for nearly 5 per cent of the total national electricity output, according to the China Atomic Energy Authority.

One dealmaker based in Beijing said it was unlikely the Chinese would bid for this kind of work, given the sensitives around Chinese investment in Australian resource projects.

In the last 10 years, more than 34 gigawatts of nuclear power capacity have been brought online in China, bringing the country’s number of operating nuclear reactors to 55. Another 23 reactors are under construction.

https://www.afr.com/world/asia/japanese-eye-investment-in-australian-nuclear-rol...



South Korea can get them running in 5-6 years
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #160 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 5:05pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 4:57pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 4:08pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 1:45pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 12:03pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 1:16pm:
I've been told it costs about $2 worth of electricity to get the equivalent of a full tank of fuel.


I doubt that.
Do the maths.

Let's say electricity costs 30 cents per kilowatt hour.
$2.00/ 0.30 = 6.7 KW for one hour.

6.7 KW would drive a car for about one hour if it was just cruising.
A tank of fuel would go for 6 hours or more.

A car that accelerates hard would use 100KW  or more.



The average EV battery is about 40 kWh. At 30c/kWh, that is still only $12 to fully charge it. If you plug it in overnight to get the off peak power, you will get it for a lot less than 30c/kWh.



So you agree - it's nowhere near $2 to charge up an EV battery?


That's not what I said Bobby. Do you know what off peak electricity costs?



12.47 cents per kWhr

https://www.agl.com.au/content/dam/digital/agl/documents/terms-and-conditions/en...
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #161 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 5:07pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 5:05pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 4:57pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 4:08pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 1:45pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 12:03pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 1:16pm:
I've been told it costs about $2 worth of electricity to get the equivalent of a full tank of fuel.


I doubt that.
Do the maths.

Let's say electricity costs 30 cents per kilowatt hour.
$2.00/ 0.30 = 6.7 KW for one hour.

6.7 KW would drive a car for about one hour if it was just cruising.
A tank of fuel would go for 6 hours or more.

A car that accelerates hard would use 100KW  or more.



The average EV battery is about 40 kWh. At 30c/kWh, that is still only $12 to fully charge it. If you plug it in overnight to get the off peak power, you will get it for a lot less than 30c/kWh.



So you agree - it's nowhere near $2 to charge up an EV battery?


That's not what I said Bobby. Do you know what off peak electricity costs?



12.47 cents per kWhr

https://www.agl.com.au/content/dam/digital/agl/documents/terms-and-conditions/en...


That is if you have off peak meter. Many places have only 1 meter.
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #162 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 5:10pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 5:07pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 5:05pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 4:57pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 4:08pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 1:45pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 12:03pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 1:16pm:
I've been told it costs about $2 worth of electricity to get the equivalent of a full tank of fuel.


I doubt that.
Do the maths.

Let's say electricity costs 30 cents per kilowatt hour.
$2.00/ 0.30 = 6.7 KW for one hour.

6.7 KW would drive a car for about one hour if it was just cruising.
A tank of fuel would go for 6 hours or more.

A car that accelerates hard would use 100KW  or more.



The average EV battery is about 40 kWh. At 30c/kWh, that is still only $12 to fully charge it. If you plug it in overnight to get the off peak power, you will get it for a lot less than 30c/kWh.



So you agree - it's nowhere near $2 to charge up an EV battery?


That's not what I said Bobby. Do you know what off peak electricity costs?



12.47 cents per kWhr

https://www.agl.com.au/content/dam/digital/agl/documents/terms-and-conditions/en...


That is if you have off peak meter. Many places have only 1 meter.


At that price it would be less than $5 for a full charge.
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #163 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 5:16pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 5:10pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 5:07pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 5:05pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 4:57pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 4:08pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 1:45pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2024 at 12:03pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 1:16pm:
I've been told it costs about $2 worth of electricity to get the equivalent of a full tank of fuel.


I doubt that.
Do the maths.

Let's say electricity costs 30 cents per kilowatt hour.
$2.00/ 0.30 = 6.7 KW for one hour.

6.7 KW would drive a car for about one hour if it was just cruising.
A tank of fuel would go for 6 hours or more.

A car that accelerates hard would use 100KW  or more.



The average EV battery is about 40 kWh. At 30c/kWh, that is still only $12 to fully charge it. If you plug it in overnight to get the off peak power, you will get it for a lot less than 30c/kWh.



So you agree - it's nowhere near $2 to charge up an EV battery?


That's not what I said Bobby. Do you know what off peak electricity costs?



12.47 cents per kWhr

https://www.agl.com.au/content/dam/digital/agl/documents/terms-and-conditions/en...


That is if you have off peak meter. Many places have only 1 meter.


At that price it would be less than $5 for a full charge.


Smallest battery in Tesla is 57.5 KwH goes up to 75KwH

AnAl says solar panels on your roof can charge your vehicle overnight for free.  Grin
Does AnAl realise solar doesn't work at night?

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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #164 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 5:23pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2024 at 1:16pm:
I've been told it costs about $2 worth of electricity to get the equivalent of a full tank of fuel.


I suppose if you are charging using your home solar, it might be that much. It comes down to how much you would be using an electric vehicle. I did a calculation on this the other week based on online estimates. The answer is $50 a week, if you use the car and recharge regularly. But, given that I don't know anyone that uses an electric vehicle, I have no experience on how much it costs.
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