Australian Politics Forum - Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants

freediver

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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #30 - Jun 19^th, 2024 at 6:04pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 19^th, 2024 at 5:52pm:

Quote:

The RIC Report

The nuclear necessity

9 May 2023

In 1951, the Experimental Breeder reactor in Idaho became the first nuclear reactor to generate electricity. Commercial nuclear power plants followed later in the 1950s.

Nuclear in numbers
1. 437: the number of reactors in the world today. 90% were built in the 1970s & 80s. 60 new reactors are under construction, 100 are planned, and old reactors are being
refurbished for 80 years or more of total lifetime use.1 2

2. >50%: the nuclear share of emissions-free electricity in the US. Nuclear power is
25% of global carbon-free power and 10% of global electricity overall.3 4
3. 60: gigatons of CO2emissions avoided in the past 50 years due to nuclear power.5

93%: average “uptime” for nuclear plants. It’s 35% for wind and 25% for solar.7

22¢/kWh: electricity cost in France (>70% nuclear); in Germany, 40¢ (0%).

In the US, it’s 14¢/kWh in South Carolina (56% nuclear)

or 27¢ in California (10%).9

$122/MWh: average cost to build & generate nuclear power on an “all-in” basis; wind plus battery storage costs $291/MWh, solar plus batteries $413 (Exhibit 20).

Where supplies come from
Uranium is an abundant resource with some estimates suggesting that the Earth’s crust contains 35 trillion tons. Two-thirds of uranium production today comes from
Kazakhstan, Canada, and Australia. 35% of US uranium is imported from Kazakhstan with another 14% from Russia. Canada (15%) and Australia (14%) are the other main US
suppliers. Australia has 1.7 million tons of reserves, accounting for almost 30% of known
uranium deposits (Exhibit 8).

2.Cost
Industry research suggests that, after accounting for efficiency, storage needs, the cost of transmission, and other broad system costs, nuclear power plants are one of the least expensive sources of energy.

Longevity: nuclear power plants can last anywhere from 40 to 100 years with proper maintenance while solar panels and wind farms are replaced after 20-30 years. A solar farm may need to be replaced as many as five times during the
operable life of a nuclear plant.

https://advisoranalyst.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/bofa-the-ric-report-the-nu...

The US data shows 14 cents Kwh for nuclear power which is less than half of what we're paying.

Bill Gates is a big supporter of nuclear power
Quote:

In the US both sides of politics proudly support it.

Bill Gates: "Of all the climate work I'm doing the one that has the most bipartisan energy behind it is actually nuclear".

https://x.com/ShackelWill/status/1802587211248111810

On the other hand, if you don't cherry pick the numbers, nuclear is one of the most expensive options:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source

About 5c/kWh for wind and solar, vs about 20c/kWh for nuclear. From the same site, the cost in Australia for wind plus storage is under 9c/kWh. No figure given for the cost of nuclear in Australia, but you can bet it would be more expensive than in countries with plenty of experience.

The coalition is going to send us broke and expose us to unnecessary danger.

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« Last Edit: Jun 19^th, 2024 at 6:16pm by freediver »

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 43516 Gender:	Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants Reply #31 - Jun 19^th, 2024 at 6:24pm Build more coal fired power stations. Use high quality coal and high efficiency furnaces to minimise air pollution. Surround them with masses of greenhouses for vegetables and flowers, using the CO2.
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Belgarion Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5395 Gender:	Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants Reply #32 - Jun 19^th, 2024 at 6:25pm If renewables are so cheap, why does South Australia have the highest electricity costs in the country?
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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 43516 Gender:	Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants Reply #33 - Jun 19^th, 2024 at 6:27pm Build more coal fired power stations. Use high quality coal and high efficiency furnaces to minimise air pollution. Surround them with masses of greenhouses for vegetables and flowers, using the CO2.
Back to top	Estragon: I can’t go on like this. Vladimir: That’s what you think. IP Logged

greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 135297 Gender:	Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants Reply #34 - Jun 19^th, 2024 at 6:31pm Brian Ross wrote on Jun 19^th, 2024 at 4:36pm: Nuclear proposal rejected by premiers, who say Dutton has no power to lift state nuclear bans Indeed, he does not. It's all talk. Blah, blah, blah.
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Baronvonrort

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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #35 - Jun 19^th, 2024 at 6:34pm

freediver wrote on Jun 19^th, 2024 at 6:04pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 19^th, 2024 at 5:52pm:

Quote:

The RIC Report

The nuclear necessity

9 May 2023

In 1951, the Experimental Breeder reactor in Idaho became the first nuclear reactor to generate electricity. Commercial nuclear power plants followed later in the 1950s.

Nuclear in numbers
1. 437: the number of reactors in the world today. 90% were built in the 1970s & 80s. 60 new reactors are under construction, 100 are planned, and old reactors are being
refurbished for 80 years or more of total lifetime use.1 2

2. >50%: the nuclear share of emissions-free electricity in the US. Nuclear power is
25% of global carbon-free power and 10% of global electricity overall.3 4
3. 60: gigatons of CO2emissions avoided in the past 50 years due to nuclear power.5

93%: average “uptime” for nuclear plants. It’s 35% for wind and 25% for solar.7

22¢/kWh: electricity cost in France (>70% nuclear); in Germany, 40¢ (0%).

In the US, it’s 14¢/kWh in South Carolina (56% nuclear)

or 27¢ in California (10%).9

$122/MWh: average cost to build & generate nuclear power on an “all-in” basis; wind plus battery storage costs $291/MWh, solar plus batteries $413 (Exhibit 20).

Where supplies come from
Uranium is an abundant resource with some estimates suggesting that the Earth’s crust contains 35 trillion tons. Two-thirds of uranium production today comes from
Kazakhstan, Canada, and Australia. 35% of US uranium is imported from Kazakhstan with another 14% from Russia. Canada (15%) and Australia (14%) are the other main US
suppliers. Australia has 1.7 million tons of reserves, accounting for almost 30% of known
uranium deposits (Exhibit 8).

2.Cost
Industry research suggests that, after accounting for efficiency, storage needs, the cost of transmission, and other broad system costs, nuclear power plants are one of the least expensive sources of energy.

Longevity: nuclear power plants can last anywhere from 40 to 100 years with proper maintenance while solar panels and wind farms are replaced after 20-30 years. A solar farm may need to be replaced as many as five times during the
operable life of a nuclear plant.

https://advisoranalyst.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/bofa-the-ric-report-the-nu...

The US data shows 14 cents Kwh for nuclear power which is less than half of what we're paying.

Bill Gates is a big supporter of nuclear power
Quote:

In the US both sides of politics proudly support it.

Bill Gates: "Of all the climate work I'm doing the one that has the most bipartisan energy behind it is actually nuclear".

https://x.com/ShackelWill/status/1802587211248111810

On the other hand, if you don't cherry pick the numbers, nuclear is one of the most expensive options:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source

About 5c/kWh for wind and solar, vs about 20c/kWh for nuclear. From the same site, the cost in Australia for wind plus storage is under 9c/kWh. No figure given for the cost of nuclear in Australia, but you can bet it would be more expensive than in countries with plenty of experience.

The coalition is going to send us broke and expose us to unnecessary danger.

The offshore wind Bowen wants for Illawarra is going to cost 5-10x more than onshore wind. Electrics don't last offshore then you have corrosion issues most yacht owners replace electrics around 5 years the harsh environment stuff them.
Bowen will send up broke with that lunacy.

Hydro is cheapest renewable open taps to turn on close tap when demand is lower unlike wind and solar it works 24/7.

I have used solar and wind on yachts there are days when neither will work we need something that works 24/7.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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freediver

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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #36 - Jun 19^th, 2024 at 6:51pm

Ultimately, the goal of all this is to reduce GHG emissions, not to produce electricity. And yes, that is a very important difference that gets completely lost.

10 years ago, Labor and the Greens implemented the cheapest, most economically rationally way to do that. Yes, it would have eventually lead to more renewables, but at a far lower cost. The coalition undid that. Since then, the coalition has delivered crippling uncertainty to our electricity sector that has seen prices sky-rocket because no-one is willing to invest, except where huge subsidies are offered. That uncertainty continues. Barely weeks ago, their grand plan was for nuclear power in a ludicrous 5 years. Today, that changed to 11 to 13 years. What will it be next week? What will it morph into after the next federal election? If you had a spare billion dollars to invest in Australia, would you risk it on the electricity sector?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Bobby.

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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #37 - Jun 19^th, 2024 at 6:53pm

freediver wrote on Jun 19^th, 2024 at 6:51pm:

Ultimately, the goal of all this is to reduce GHG emissions, not to produce electricity. And yes, that is a very important difference that gets completely lost.

10 years ago, Labor and the Greens implemented the cheapest, most economically rationally way to do that. Yes, it would have eventually lead to more renewables, but at a far lower cost. The coalition undid that. Since then, the coalition has delivered crippling uncertainty to our electricity sector that has seen prices sky-rocket because no-one is willing to invest, except where huge subsidies are offered. That uncertainty continues. Barely weeks ago, their grand plan was for nuclear power in a ludicrous 5 years. Today, that changed to 11 to 13 years. What will it be next week? What will it morph into after the next federal election? If you had a spare billion dollars to invest in Australia, would you risk it on the electricity sector?

No -

the Govt will have to finance it all and then sell it later on to their big business mates.

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Laugh till you cry

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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #38 - Jun 19^th, 2024 at 7:14pm

Frank wrote on Jun 19^th, 2024 at 6:27pm:

Build more coal fired power stations. Use high quality coal and high efficiency furnaces to minimise air pollution.

Surround them with masses of greenhouses for vegetables and flowers, using the CO2.

Build more coal-fired power plants and surround them with Frank and his ilk.

All Nuclear plants engineered and constructed by Western Countries have been grossly over budget and grossly over schedule.

The West only started building nuclear power plants because the Russians were first. The UK became a world leader and look at the UK now as the sick man of Europe.

... on 27 June 1954, the world's first nuclear power station at Obninsk was connected to the Moscow grid and humanity became aware of the appearance of a new source of energy for electricity production. ...

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Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #39 - Jun 19^th, 2024 at 7:27pm

freediver wrote on Jun 19^th, 2024 at 6:51pm:

... Barely weeks ago, their grand plan was for nuclear power in a ludicrous 5 years. ...

It would take them that long, at least, to repeal the federal and state legislation that prohibits nuclear power in this country.

And it's doubtful they'll even be able to do that.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 43516 Gender:	Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants Reply #40 - Jun 19^th, 2024 at 8:05pm Andrew Forest says Coalition’s nuclear push will decimate Australian economy Worried about his subsidies.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #41 - Jun 19^th, 2024 at 8:46pm

Peter Dutton is a worthless POS; that much we can all agree on.

You wouldn't piss down his throat if he had heartburn - that's how unlikable he is.

However, I don't think he's a complete moron.

So, I can't figure out what he's up to here.

He says he's happy for the next election to be a referendum on nuclear power.

Does he really think he'll be able to convince at least half of the voting public that nuclear is the way to go?

There's something fishy about this.

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Labor majority government

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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #42 - Jun 19^th, 2024 at 8:49pm

He is trying to derail renewable energy investment which is absolutely going gangbusters , the nationals fossil brown baggers are pulling out all the rabbits in the hat hoping gravy train isnt derailed, spuds gone soon enough greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 19^th, 2024 at 8:46pm:

Peter Dutton is a worthless POS; that much we can all agree on.

You wouldn't piss down his throat if he had heartburn - that's how unlikable he is.

However, I don't think he's a complete moron.

So, I can't figure out what he's up to here.

He says he's happy for the next election to be a referendum on nuclear power.

Does he really think he'll be able to convince at least half of the voting public that nuclear is the way to go?

There's something fishy about this.

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Pack ya bags rightards

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Labor majority government Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1233 Gender:	Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants Reply #43 - Jun 19^th, 2024 at 8:52pm The simple fact is that commercial SMRs don't exist. There are zero in operation or even contracted for construction outside Russia and China. Spuds plan for Collie WA 🤭
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Belgarion

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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #44 - Jun 19^th, 2024 at 9:05pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 19^th, 2024 at 6:31pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 19^th, 2024 at 4:36pm:

Nuclear proposal rejected by premiers, who say Dutton has no power to lift state nuclear bans Shocked

Indeed, he does not.

It's all talk. Blah, blah, blah.

The state Premiers have no say. S 109 of the Constitution. In any case the majority of the people support nuclear power. https://www.nuclearaustralia.org.au/australian-support-for-considering-nuclear-e...

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

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Poll
Question: Are you supportive of Nuclear power in Australia?
Yes 13 (50.0%) No 10 (38.5%) Undecided 3 (11.5%) Total votes: 26 « Created by: Captain Nemo on: Jun 20^th, 2024 at 10:45pm »