Australian Politics Forum - Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants

Karnal

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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #360 - Jun 27^th, 2024 at 11:47am

freediver wrote on Jun 27^th, 2024 at 10:29am:

Frank wrote on Jun 26^th, 2024 at 5:39pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2024 at 4:19pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 26^th, 2024 at 12:56pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 26^th, 2024 at 12:22pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 26^th, 2024 at 11:46am:

Mining companies are mining and exporting a lot of uranioum ALREADY!!! Using some of it here makes zero difference to the mining companies.

It's never been about Nuclear or uranium mining.

It's all about gas.

That's why it's not a Nuclear energy policy, but a gas one, and that benefits the mining industry.

Even their logic of still aiming for a zero emissions power gird, they've not said how they'll get there.

They're either going to need to drastically increase Nuclear generation, use a bullshit credit system, or heavily invest in renewables and their storage.

Which is more likely for the Coalition?

You do realise, don't you, that renewables require a lot of mining, too. Wind turbines and solar panels and batteries are not made of wood and paper and political hot air.

How much mining, compared to coal fired power?

As much mining as is required

Looks like you understand the issues as well as the coalition understands the cost of nuclear power.

Cunning, no?

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Frank

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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #361 - Jun 27^th, 2024 at 11:49am

tickleandrose wrote on Jun 27^th, 2024 at 11:47am:

There are so many barriers to that nuclear reality. At the moment, Australia still has a ban on nuclear energy through The Commonwealth Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation act 1999. And I believe each Australian state also have their own regulations and laws regarding this.

For any of those nuclear power plant to get to the planning stage, these laws will first have to be repealed. Otherwise you will struggle to find private investors. In a project like this, even if the government owes the nuclear power plants, there has to be both public and private investments to make it work.

In order for those laws to be repealed. The coalition need to win the next election with a margin that would mean complete annihilation of labor and teal seats, in order to gain majority in the upper and lower house. AND the same need to be repeated in all the states where the nuclear power plants going to be. I am not confident that this would happen.

But, let’s just assume that everything lined up okay, and this is going to happen. Where are we going to source the talents from? In Australia, we don’t produce nuclear scientists, or engineers. We do have a nuclear reactor, but its smaller scale, and produces products for medical use rather than for power. How are we going to attract talents to work in places like La Trobe valley, with no good educational or recreational facilities for the families? And which country is willing to transfer those nuclear technology to us? It’s not something that you can just buy “off the shelf”.

I think what is really going to happen is that, even if the coalition wins the next election. It would not have the majority to do any of this. All our green energy plans will be on hold, filled temporarily by coal or gas. They will probably start a study… or some thing like a “Australian Nuclear Authority” - to investigate the feasibility of purchasing land around the nuclear sites for future development. And that would be it for 4 to 8 years. This would keep the big mining magnates and liberal donors happy.

A good outcome.

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Karnal

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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #362 - Jun 27^th, 2024 at 11:54am

SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 26^th, 2024 at 7:37pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 26^th, 2024 at 6:28pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 26^th, 2024 at 5:50pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 26^th, 2024 at 5:39pm:

We HAD wind and hydro (creeks and rivers) powering shipping, mills, machinery. The age of sails, for all sorts of things. But then came the steam engine and then the combustion engine. Going back to wind and sails is daft in an industrial age. Why not go the whole hog, back to candles and horses and treadmills.

Technology is advancing with renewables dumbarse, not retracting back to the stone age.

If you paid $1 for your degree you were ripped off.

Not at all. Going back to wind after steam, combustion, nuclear is retrograde.

A windmill is a windmill. It will never be a blast furnace. Solar is nice in a pedestrian kinda 'slow food' way but you can't fly intercontinental with solar.

L o w energy. Like Jeb. Like you and all the other Gretaesque ignorant shouters.

And you accuse others of being ideologues...

Not at all, Sad. The old boy's merely quoting Dear Leader.

He's most fashionable that way. He's been reading News Ltd, you see.

The sun, windmills, flower power - so passe. Coal is the way to go - or maybe firewood if we can cut down enough trees.

It annoys the leftards ever so.

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Frank Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 44187 Gender:	Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants Reply #363 - Jun 27^th, 2024 at 12:06pm There is no possibility of running a country like Australia on renewables - solar, hydro, wind - alone. Impossible. So if you don't want coal, you need gas. If you don't want gas either, you need nuclear. (I would personally also advocate for more hydro. Proper hydro, not pumped hydro.)
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aquascoot Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 34231 Gender:	Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants Reply #364 - Jun 27^th, 2024 at 12:21pm ,
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JC Denton Gold Member Offline Posts: 5464 Gender:	Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants Reply #365 - Jun 27^th, 2024 at 12:32pm australia is never going to be a manufacturing country even if we replaced our entire grid with nuclear power. they dont help but high energy costs (assuming nuclear will even assist with that) aren't the bottleneck for our inability to create a competitive manufacturing sector.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 136150 Gender:	Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants Reply #366 - Jun 27^th, 2024 at 12:41pm aquascoot wrote on Jun 27^th, 2024 at 12:21pm: , Indonesia?
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lee

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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #367 - Jun 27^th, 2024 at 12:45pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 27^th, 2024 at 12:41pm:

Indonesia?

With its abundance of coal, and eco-friendly tree burning? And its increasing number of coal-fired plant?

"Pundits pointed out that Indonesia will never reach this goal without retiring all 234 of its coal-fired power plants, and halting the 14 with a combined capacity of 19.8 gigawatts in the pipeline."

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/indonesia-cirebon-coal-power-plant-retire-e...

But you don't want that here. Roll Eyes

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #368 - Jun 27^th, 2024 at 1:18pm

lee wrote on Jun 27^th, 2024 at 12:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 27^th, 2024 at 12:41pm:

Indonesia?

With its abundance of coal, and eco-friendly tree burning? And its increasing number of coal-fired plant?

"Pundits pointed out that Indonesia will never reach this goal without retiring all 234 of its coal-fired power plants, and halting the 14 with a combined capacity of 19.8 gigawatts in the pipeline."

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/indonesia-cirebon-coal-power-plant-retire-e...

But you don't want that here. Roll Eyes

Indonesia is one of the top 10 manufacturing countries.

They don't generate nuclear power.

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #369 - Jun 27^th, 2024 at 1:18pm

Frank wrote on Jun 26^th, 2024 at 6:28pm:

A windmill is a windmill.
It will never be a blast furnace.

A windmill and a wind turbine are different in structure and purpose, even though many people use the terms interchangeably.

A windmill is a very old technology that uses the wind to either mill grains into flour, drive machines, or move water.

A wind turbine converts wind energy into electricity by turning a turbine.

I can't recall WHO - if ANYONE - ever claimed that EITHER of our community owned turbines is/was or tried to be a "blast furnace" ?

We own substancial shares in Hepburn Energy (wind turbines)

... and a roof covered in solar panels - with 3-way insulation (ceilings, walls and floors) and double glazing, a heat pump hot water service, HP washing machine, HP clothes dryer - plus "smart" appliances where possible, throughout the rest of the house
Plus, the addition of a new Jeep EV - though we've held on to the diesel Mitsubishi Utility, for occasional long trips and work around "Billabongyille"
Our electricity bills are sometimes in the red, sometimes in the black, hovering around ZERO.

We are the "lifters" in cutting carbon gas output - supporting a lot of "leaners" - aside from all the money saved (no water bills, either)

So, when anyone from the pro fossil-fuel lobby, the pro-nuclear lobby, the anti-renewable lobby - and climate-change deniers, in general - tell me it cannot be done, I know I don't even need to respond - in the knowledge

we're having the last laugh.

... at THEIR expense

.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17272 Gender:	Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants Reply #370 - Jun 27^th, 2024 at 1:34pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 27^th, 2024 at 1:18pm: They don't generate nuclear power. And with all that cheap fossil fuel they don't care.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17272 Gender:	Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants Reply #371 - Jun 27^th, 2024 at 1:36pm buzzanddidj wrote on Jun 27^th, 2024 at 1:18pm: We own substancial shares in Hepburn Energy (wind turbines) So how much did it cost you for something that seems to have a marginal return?
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freediver

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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #372 - Jun 27^th, 2024 at 1:54pm

Frank wrote on Jun 27^th, 2024 at 12:06pm:

There is no possibility of running a country like Australia on renewables - solar, hydro, wind - alone. Impossible.

Again, this is not a religion Frank. It would be quite simple. Wind power with storage is already cheaper than nuclear. It is rapidly getting cheaper, while nuclear is getting more expensive.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Frank Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 44187 Gender:	Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants Reply #373 - Jun 27^th, 2024 at 1:55pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 27^th, 2024 at 12:41pm: aquascoot wrote on Jun 27^th, 2024 at 12:21pm: , Indonesia? Not in the top 10. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/manufacturing-by-country
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Frank

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Re: Dutton reveals 7 sites for nuclear power plants
Reply #374 - Jun 27^th, 2024 at 2:14pm

freediver wrote on Jun 27^th, 2024 at 1:54pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 27^th, 2024 at 12:06pm:

There is no possibility of running a country like Australia on renewables - solar, hydro, wind - alone. Impossible.

Again, this is not a religion Frank. It would be quite simple. Wind power with storage is already cheaper than nuclear. It is rapidly getting cheaper, while nuclear is getting more expensive.

It does sound like religion: asserted repeatedly as if it was a truth universally acknowledged. But it isn't.
Non believers are treated as heretics and 'deniers'.

Why and how is nuclear getting more expensive even as more are being built? It would a very unique phenomenon: the more you build the more expensive each one becomes??

The cost of wind with storage ( as with other costings) depends on what you include and what you leave out. Do you include the new infrastructure of transmissions and wires? The cost of servicing, maintaining and then recycling the turbines? Ditto with batteries? How much material and energy goes into making, installing, maintaining, recycling and replacing them?

And that's just money. Wind turbines are hideous blots on the landscape. Fields of solar panels ditto.

Personally I suspect this is a kind of BetaMax versus VHS argument. In the long term humanity will come up with a new energy system, neither Beta nor VHS, not even CD. The current rush to wind and solar is a competition of who can be seen as more poutingy concerned and virtuous and bugger the expense.

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Poll
Question: Are you supportive of Nuclear power in Australia?
Yes 13 (50.0%) No 10 (38.5%) Undecided 3 (11.5%) Total votes: 26 « Created by: Captain Nemo on: Jun 20^th, 2024 at 10:45pm »