Australian Politics Forum - high price tag for nuclear

freediver

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #15 - Jun 24^th, 2024 at 2:29pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 1:00pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 10:09am:

Belgarion wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 9:44am:

Nuclear power is so expensive and inefficient that there are 440 nuclear power plants operating in 32 countrys. It is so expensive that even Bangladesh is able to afford them. Roll Eyes

If you look at the plots I gave, nuclear was the cheapest option a while ago, especially if you do not consider the cost of managing the waste.

Did you mean the dearest option?

From the graphs, it looks like it was the cheapest option in 2010, except for gas (not sure if that is only for gas heating - gas is generally to expensive to use for electricity generation in Australia).

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Bobby.

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #16 - Jun 24^th, 2024 at 3:07pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 1:10pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 11:59am:

Belgarion wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 11:36am:

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 10:09am:

Belgarion wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 9:44am:

Nuclear power is so expensive and inefficient that there are 440 nuclear power plants operating in 32 countrys. It is so expensive that even Bangladesh is able to afford them. Roll Eyes

If you look at the plots I gave, nuclear was the cheapest option a while ago, especially if you do not consider the cost of managing the waste.

Do you really want a government that wastes trillions of taxpayer dollars without thinking it through?

The costs of nuclear power are mostly one off up front costs. After this the cost of the power itself is much cheaper, even without factoring in the reliability.
https://www.iea.org/reports/projected-costs-of-generating-electricity-2020
96% of nuclear 'waste' can be recycled and storage of the reminder is a negligible cost in the overall scheme. Dealing with the waste of the so called 'renewables' however is an entirely different story.

That is a very important point.

Because solar panels and wind turbine blades can’t be effectively recycled at the moment, they usually go into landfill.

Yes, recycling will be a necessity, with costs borne by the industries creating the waste.

Solar panels and turbine blades cannot be recycled.

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freediver

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #17 - Jun 24^th, 2024 at 4:59pm

Bobby. wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 3:07pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 1:10pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 11:59am:

Belgarion wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 11:36am:

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 10:09am:

Belgarion wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 9:44am:

Nuclear power is so expensive and inefficient that there are 440 nuclear power plants operating in 32 countrys. It is so expensive that even Bangladesh is able to afford them. Roll Eyes

If you look at the plots I gave, nuclear was the cheapest option a while ago, especially if you do not consider the cost of managing the waste.

Do you really want a government that wastes trillions of taxpayer dollars without thinking it through?

The costs of nuclear power are mostly one off up front costs. After this the cost of the power itself is much cheaper, even without factoring in the reliability.
https://www.iea.org/reports/projected-costs-of-generating-electricity-2020
96% of nuclear 'waste' can be recycled and storage of the reminder is a negligible cost in the overall scheme. Dealing with the waste of the so called 'renewables' however is an entirely different story.

That is a very important point.

Because solar panels and wind turbine blades can’t be effectively recycled at the moment, they usually go into landfill.

Yes, recycling will be a necessity, with costs borne by the industries creating the waste.

Solar panels and turbine blades cannot be recycled.

Yet. It's just a question of the economics.

It's not like you can grind up depleted uranium and make shopping bags out of it.

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Bobby.

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #18 - Jun 24^th, 2024 at 5:20pm

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 4:59pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 3:07pm:

Solar panels and turbine blades cannot be recycled.

Yet. It's just a question of the economics.

It's not like you can grind up depleted uranium and make shopping bags out of it.

I doubt that anyone will come up with a good way to recycle solar panels and turbine blades.

However - there is a possibility that nuclear waste can be used to power
molten salt Thorium reactors.
Unfortunately there seems to be little or no progress yet on such reactors.

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1519823686/165#165

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Baronvonrort Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 18490 Gender:	Re: high price tag for nuclear Reply #19 - Jun 24^th, 2024 at 5:48pm freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 7:37am: We still do not know what nuclear power costs. We don't know how much solar and wind will cost you want to eliminate coal and gas so storage cost has to be factored in. Link - https://advisoranalyst.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/bofa-the-ric-report-the-nu...
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Baronvonrort

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #20 - Jun 24^th, 2024 at 5:51pm

Bobby. wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 5:20pm:

Solar panels and turbine blades cannot be recycled.

I doubt that anyone will come up with a good way to recycle solar panels and turbine blades.

You can eat gummy bears and a few insects because cow farts are bad.

Quote:

Wind turbine blades could be recycled into gummy bears, scientists say

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/23/wind-turbine-blades-could-re...

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Baronvonrort

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #21 - Jun 24^th, 2024 at 5:57pm

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 12:00pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 11:36am:

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 10:09am:

Belgarion wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 9:44am:

Nuclear power is so expensive and inefficient that there are 440 nuclear power plants operating in 32 countrys. It is so expensive that even Bangladesh is able to afford them. Roll Eyes

If you look at the plots I gave, nuclear was the cheapest option a while ago, especially if you do not consider the cost of managing the waste.

Do you really want a government that wastes trillions of taxpayer dollars without thinking it through?

The costs of nuclear power are mostly one off up front costs. After this the cost of the power itself is much cheaper, even without factoring in the reliability.
https://www.iea.org/reports/projected-costs-of-generating-electricity-2020
96% of nuclear 'waste' can be recycled and storage of the reminder is a negligible cost in the overall scheme. Dealing with the waste of the so called 'renewables' however is an entirely different story.

Can it be recycled into something that is not radioactive?

How long does it need to be stored for, and how much much does that cost?

Quote:

Depleted uranium

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium

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Baronvonrort Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 18490 Gender:	Re: high price tag for nuclear Reply #22 - Jun 24^th, 2024 at 5:59pm Click on fuel mix to see what is giving us electricity Solar and wind currently 12% https://aemo.com.au/en/energy-systems/electricity/national-electricity-market-ne...
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Dnarever

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #23 - Jun 24^th, 2024 at 9:07pm

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 10:09am:

Belgarion wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 9:44am:

Nuclear power is so expensive and inefficient that there are 440 nuclear power plants operating in 32 countrys. It is so expensive that even Bangladesh is able to afford them. Roll Eyes

If you look at the plots I gave, nuclear was the cheapest option a while ago, especially if you do not consider the cost of managing the waste.

Do you really want a government that wastes trillions of taxpayer dollars without thinking it through?

Quote:

especially if you do not consider the cost of managing the waste

That's like saying gold is cheap if you get a 95% discount.

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freediver

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #24 - Jun 24^th, 2024 at 9:12pm

Quote:

We don't know how much solar and wind will cost

Yes we do. We have installed plenty of both.

But we are yet to even come up with a good affordable solution for storing nuclear waste until it is safe.

Quote:

I doubt that anyone will come up with a good way to recycle solar panels and turbine blades.

About 85% of a wind turbine is currently recyclable. The rest, at least, is not radioactive for a million years.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #25 - Jun 24^th, 2024 at 9:58pm

Every major venture has high start-up costs - the value return comes over the long period (try telling some of those dopey 'business people' that with their get rich quick mentality - no wonder the cuntreesbuggered) .... how long will a set of nuclear reactors last compared to wind farms?

I feel like a traitorous rat, but those super wind farms and solar farms are soooo UUUUUGLEE! ... so I'm considering nuclears. I said 'considering'... lemme look at the modern technology...

I ventured the idea elsewhere (maybe here as well) that they should be built near politicians so we can guarantee the highest quality workmanship... or along the Murray so we can cut Victoria loose if needs be... in a ring around Canberra.... The Gaga Strip.

"... and I am become Death - destroyer of worlds...."

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« Last Edit: Jun 24^th, 2024 at 10:13pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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freediver

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #26 - Jun 30^th, 2024 at 4:38pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 9:58pm:

Every major venture has high start-up costs - the value return comes over the long period (try telling some of those dopey 'business people' that with their get rich quick mentality - no wonder the cuntreesbuggered) .... how long will a set of nuclear reactors last compared to wind farms?

That's exactly what LCOE means. It is the life cycle cost. It takes that into account.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17648 Gender:	Re: high price tag for nuclear Reply #27 - Jun 30^th, 2024 at 5:25pm freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2024 at 4:38pm: That's exactly what LCOE means. It is the life cycle cost. It takes that into account. So what did they use for the lifecycle of nuclear?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49059 At my desk.	Re: high price tag for nuclear Reply #28 - Jun 30^th, 2024 at 5:28pm lee wrote on Jun 30^th, 2024 at 5:25pm: freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2024 at 4:38pm: That's exactly what LCOE means. It is the life cycle cost. It takes that into account. So what did they use for the lifecycle of nuclear? Do you mean life span?
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #29 - Jun 30^th, 2024 at 6:30pm

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2024 at 4:38pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 9:58pm:

Every major venture has high start-up costs - the value return comes over the long period (try telling some of those dopey 'business people' that with their get rich quick mentality - no wonder the cuntreesbuggered) .... how long will a set of nuclear reactors last compared to wind farms?

That's exactly what LCOE means. It is the life cycle cost. It takes that into account.

That's why I panned the 'get rich quick' merchants... their grab for instant riches rather than long term benefits creates instant price rises that then never go down... inflation sets in causing the price hike for the GRQS to become fixed and then 'in need' of enhancement to 'keep up' - and away it all goes again.

GREED is not GOOD!!

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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