Australian Politics Forum - high price tag for nuclear

Gnads

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #60 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:31pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2024 at 7:29pm:

The pro-nuclear lobby will never accept any alternative that carries the "sustainable" or "renewable" tag.

They have much in common with the climate change denial lobby, in that they will never admit that they were wrong, even when the cost of ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS - by the way - has been dropped on the table, just as an initial set-up cost, let alone the 15 to 20 years time-frame before the first spark.

We also have a lot of "not in my backyard" determination - from state governments, to shire councils, to homeowners, regarding not just on plant sites, but who has a vacant basement they wouldn't mind letting out in 100,000-year increments. to store nuclear waste ?

You might well say "Dutton's dreaming" ?

I STILL say he's dog-whistlin' the anti-sustainables and climate change denial lobbies, so why bother with, so-called "costings" ?

This

'dodo policy'

already dead in the water

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/altverz/images/4/4d/DodoRiderZombieAlmanac.png

Why would it take 15 to 20 years to build a nuclear plant?

"Renewables" is a misnomer in regards to power supply.

What it should mean is that the infrastructure has to be "renewed" (replaced) far more regularly.

Clowns like you don't get the irony & hypocrisy of this lefty govt & it's infantile rejection of debating, considering nuclear as a means to reduce &
meet it's pie in the sky emissions targets....

yet have signed on board for the supply of at least 8 nuclear submarines ... that will be docked in locations within Australia and manned by Australian Naval personnel.

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Gnads

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #61 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:37pm

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2024 at 9:09pm:

Quote:

Korea can supply Large nuclear reactors for 9.5 billion. 7 makes 70 billion.

Do you think they can make them in Australia for that price? Or do you think they just stick them on a ship and send them wherever?

They're(Hyundai) bringing in their own workforce to build trains in QLD ....

so why couldn't they ship components to Australia and workers for a Nuclear project?

Even if it were a half a billion more each .... it would be cheaper than the combined renewables projects.

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freediver

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #62 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:38pm

Quote:

Why would it take 15 to 20 years to build a nuclear plant?

Ask the coalition why they announced they could build one in 5 years, then a few weeks later changed it to 11-13 years.

In some cases it has taken multiple decades.

We have no established local industry. We have a small population and a labor shortage in the established power industry and similar industries. Unless they decide to build it on the outskirts of a major city, we will struggle to mobilise the number of people required, and the ones we do get out to site will be highly paid. We have stricter industrial safety standards than most countries, and this will be stepped up for nuclear. We also have a reluctant public, reluctant MPs and a legal system stacked against it.

Also, the coalition is lying to you. They have no intention of going nuclear. This is just another way to pretend they are committed to climate change while doing nothing about it.

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Gnads

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #63 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:41pm

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:38pm:

Quote:

Why would it take 15 to 20 years to build a nuclear plant?

Ask the coalition why they announced they could build one in 5 years, then a few weeks later changed it to 11-13 years.

In some cases it has taken multiple decades.

We have no established local industry. We have a small population and a labor shortage in the established power industry and similar industries. Unless they decide to build it on the outskirts of a major city, we will struggle to mobilise the number of people required, and the ones we do get out to site will be highly paid. We have stricter industrial safety standards than most countries, and this will be stepped up for nuclear. We also have a reluctant public, reluctant MPs and a legal system stacked against it.

Also, the coalition is lying to you. They have no intention of going nuclear. This is just another way to pretend they are committed to climate change while doing nothing about it.

So who are all the people building all these solar and wind farms?

Where are they mobilised from? And the sites are all over regional Australia.

You speak through your southern gate.

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Bobby.

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #64 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:54pm

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:38pm:

Quote:

Why would it take 15 to 20 years to build a nuclear plant?

Ask the coalition why they announced they could build one in 5 years, then a few weeks later changed it to 11-13 years.

In some cases it has taken multiple decades.

We have no established local industry. We have a small population and a labor shortage in the established power industry and similar industries. Unless they decide to build it on the outskirts of a major city, we will struggle to mobilise the number of people required, and the ones we do get out to site will be highly paid. We have stricter industrial safety standards than most countries, and this will be stepped up for nuclear. We also have a reluctant public, reluctant MPs and a legal system stacked against it.

Also, the coalition is lying to you. They have no intention of going nuclear. This is just another way to pretend they are committed to climate change while doing nothing about it.

yes - I feel that nuclear power stations will just be a never ending money pit.
It will be hard to find qualified people to run the reactors safely.
We'll have to import them at high cost -
who would want to live near say the old Hazelwood power station in the Latrobe valley?
Apart from making Yellowcake we have no nuclear industry here.
We don't make fuel rods either.
Do we even have university courses for nuclear power station engineers?
Maybe we'd have to sponsor people to go overseas to learn about it?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49071 At my desk.	Re: high price tag for nuclear Reply #65 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:57pm Quote: So who are all the people building all these solar and wind farms? Are you asking for their names? You can build a wind farm one turbine at a time. You can build a solar farm one panel at a time. A lot of our solar is going in in the cities, one house at a time. You can get high school students doing it.
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buzzanddidj

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #66 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:57pm

Gnads wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2024 at 9:03am:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 10:08am:

3.7%

of Australia’s energy - that's stuff all - it's almost nothing. Shocked

Add up the costs of all the onshore wind & solar projects, those finished, those in the process of being built, plus the costs of those planned.

The difference is private enterprise see them as viable investments - offering good returns

Private enterprise (The Market) equates pouring money into nuclear power, in this country, with pouring billions into a bottomless pit.

... and the ONLY party that would go that way are Peter Dutton and a few other Coalition MPs - and all with someone else's (every Australian taxpayer, in this case) money

.

.

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Gnads

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #67 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 5:58pm

Bobby. wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:54pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:38pm:

Quote:

Why would it take 15 to 20 years to build a nuclear plant?

Ask the coalition why they announced they could build one in 5 years, then a few weeks later changed it to 11-13 years.

In some cases it has taken multiple decades.

We have no established local industry. We have a small population and a labor shortage in the established power industry and similar industries. Unless they decide to build it on the outskirts of a major city, we will struggle to mobilise the number of people required, and the ones we do get out to site will be highly paid. We have stricter industrial safety standards than most countries, and this will be stepped up for nuclear. We also have a reluctant public, reluctant MPs and a legal system stacked against it.

Also, the coalition is lying to you. They have no intention of going nuclear. This is just another way to pretend they are committed to climate change while doing nothing about it.

yes - I feel that nuclear power stations will just be a never ending money pit.

It will be hard to find qualified people to run the reactors safely.

We'll have to import them at high cost -
who would want to live near say the old Hazelwood power station in the Latrobe valley?

Apart from making Yellowcake we have no nuclear industry here. Grin

We don't make fuel rods either.

Do we even have university courses for nuclear power station engineers?

Maybe we'd have to sponsor people to go overseas to learn about it?

You are a complete moron.

Renewables are already proving Solar & Wind is a never ending money pit.

Why would it be hard to find qualified people to run it? It's just the energy source difference - nuclear still heats water, that makes steam, that drives turbines. We have shyte loads of qualified people to do that.

Why would it be at high cost to import qualified people in reactor supervision? People all over the world are busting a hump to come here. People are already living near old power stations.

Originally back in the day we had no industry here... how did our car, steel, coal fired power station, train manufacturing, bridge building, agricultural equipment, building industries get started?

We don't need to make fuel rods.

How hard is it to make University courses applicable to any requirement? .... global knowledge.

Maybe you should just go overseas ... idiot. Roll Eyes

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lee

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #68 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 5:58pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 9:51am:

Not to, or in AUSTRALIA, obviously - or Dutton would release such a quote, if he had one (which he doesn't)

The CSIRO -

"The CSIRO has crunched the numbers and estimates building a large-scale nuclear power plant in Australia would cost at least $8.5 billion and produce electricity at roughly twice the cost of renewable sources."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-19/cost-of-going-nuclear-missing-in-coalitio...

And that's after the CSIRO tripled the price. Roll Eyes

"GenCost based its large‐scale nuclear cost on South Korean costs as the best representation of a continuous building program consistent with other technologies in the report. GenCost then adjusted for differences in Australian and South Korean deployment costs by studying the ratio of new coal generation costs in each country. That ratio is used to scale the South Korean large‐scale nuclear costs to Australian deployment costs."

Gen-cost final report.

"The ratio of Australian to South Korean USC plant costs used is 3.0 when all costs are considered in the same currency. To arrive at the Australian figure of $9,217/kW, the South Korean costs were multiplied by 3.0, inflated and converted from USD in 2018/kW to AUD in 2023/kW. The report notes that new large-scale nuclear costs are significantly lower than those for an SMR."

https://www.energycouncil.com.au/analysis/large-scale-nuclear-costs-has-the-csir...

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Gnads

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #69 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 5:59pm

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:57pm:

Quote:

So who are all the people building all these solar and wind farms?

Are you asking for their names?

You can build a wind farm one turbine at a time. You can build a solar farm one panel at a time. A lot of our solar is going in in the cities, one house at a time. You can get high school students doing it.

Are you being an asinine Tnuc?

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Gnads

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #70 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 6:11pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:57pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2024 at 9:03am:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 24^th, 2024 at 10:08am:

3.7%

of Australia’s energy - that's stuff all - it's almost nothing. Shocked

Add up the costs of all the onshore wind & solar projects, those finished, those in the process of being built, plus the costs of those planned.

The difference is private enterprise see them as viable investments - offering good returns

Private enterprise (The Market) equates pouring money into nuclear power, in this country, with pouring billions into a bottomless pit.

... and the ONLY party that would go that way are Peter Dutton and a few other Coalition MPs - and all with someone else's (every Australian taxpayer, in this case) money

.https://regenstrategic.com.au/thumbs/870/450/files/images/p1h7optbt01pen4chcuv12...

.

Bullshyte ... they are the same Private Enterprise companies involved in the fossil fuel/energy industry and what they see are the govt renewables subsidies to milk and make a fortune.

2nd highlight - more bullshyte ... how do you know any private company sees Nuclear as pouring money into bottomless pit?

This country has more pluses for building nuclear than many around the globe.

We have the natural resources, we have the space to place the stations & deal with the waste, we have the stability of a country without tsunamis or earthquakes, we have the ability of smart people technology wise ....

and where have the ALP taken us all with someone else's (every Australian taxpayer, in this case) money?

Clown Roll Eyes

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Setanta

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #71 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 6:18pm

Gnads wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 5:59pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:57pm:

Quote:

So who are all the people building all these solar and wind farms?

Are you asking for their names?

You can build a wind farm one turbine at a time. You can build a solar farm one panel at a time. A lot of our solar is going in in the cities, one house at a time. You can get high school students doing it.

Are you being an asinine Tnuc?

You can build anything... One atom at a time. Grin

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Gnads

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #72 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 6:37pm

Setanta wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 6:18pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 5:59pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:57pm:

Quote:

So who are all the people building all these solar and wind farms?

Are you asking for their names?

You can build a wind farm one turbine at a time. You can build a solar farm one panel at a time. A lot of our solar is going in in the cities, one house at a time. You can get high school students doing it.

Are you being an asinine Tnuc?

You can build anything... One atom at a time. Grin

or one neuron at a time ... even a FD.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #73 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 8:35pm

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2024 at 6:34pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2024 at 6:01pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2024 at 7:42am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 1^st, 2024 at 11:00pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2024 at 9:02pm:

lee wrote on Jul 1^st, 2024 at 7:29pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2024 at 5:05pm:

It is actual cost trends from 2009 to 2022.

"The GenCost report notes that some of the challenges in trying to pin down an estimation for Australian nuclear plant costs based on overseas data includes:"

Correct. Australian costs are going to be much higher. Not just because the price is rapidly rising and they could be 20 years away. But also because we have no local experience.

Australia has signed Nuclear Non Proliferation treaty which means we can get help with nuclear power.

That's wonderful. I'm sure there will be plenty of highly paid people offering their assistance.

We spent $100 million of taxpayers money on Geological reports for Snowy Hydro 2 how did that work out?

It was supposed to cost $2 billion operational in 2021 it has cost $12 billion with current estimate at 2028-2029 before it works. I wonder how many billions extra it will cost over the next 4-5 years.

Is that why you want to waste even more taxpayer money?

How much taxpayer money have we wasted already with renewables?

My preference would be remove all taxpayer subsidies and let the market work out what is best.

If renewables are cheaper as some claim they don't need subsidies.

Warren didn't get to be worth over $200 billion from wasting money

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freediver

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #74 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 8:39pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 8:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2024 at 6:34pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2024 at 6:01pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2024 at 7:42am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 1^st, 2024 at 11:00pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2024 at 9:02pm:

lee wrote on Jul 1^st, 2024 at 7:29pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2024 at 5:05pm:

It is actual cost trends from 2009 to 2022.

"The GenCost report notes that some of the challenges in trying to pin down an estimation for Australian nuclear plant costs based on overseas data includes:"

Correct. Australian costs are going to be much higher. Not just because the price is rapidly rising and they could be 20 years away. But also because we have no local experience.

Australia has signed Nuclear Non Proliferation treaty which means we can get help with nuclear power.

That's wonderful. I'm sure there will be plenty of highly paid people offering their assistance.

We spent $100 million of taxpayers money on Geological reports for Snowy Hydro 2 how did that work out?

It was supposed to cost $2 billion operational in 2021 it has cost $12 billion with current estimate at 2028-2029 before it works. I wonder how many billions extra it will cost over the next 4-5 years.

Is that why you want to waste even more taxpayer money?

How much taxpayer money have we wasted already with renewables?

My preference would be remove all taxpayer subsidies and let the market work out what is best.

If renewables are cheaper as some claim they don't need subsidies.

Warren didn't get to be worth over $200 billion from wasting money

I don't support subsidies either. You are right they are a waste of money. You have the coalition to thank for that. They got rid of the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions and left us with the most expensive options.

Gnads wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 5:59pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:57pm:

Quote:

So who are all the people building all these solar and wind farms?

Are you asking for their names?

You can build a wind farm one turbine at a time. You can build a solar farm one panel at a time. A lot of our solar is going in in the cities, one house at a time. You can get high school students doing it.

Are you being an asinine Tnuc?

I was making a point about the difficulty of mobilising a massive workforce in Australia. It obviously went right over your head, because you thought the same thing applied to wind turbines and solar panels. It doesn't.

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